Cruises are back - what they may look like now

[d9704011]

46 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

However we have to start living as normally as possible with this disease, or the entire world economy will go into melt down.

I agree with you there but implying the cruise industry is representative of the whole world doesn’t work.  

[kruzseeka]

11 hours ago, No pager thank you said:

Hi Selbourne, a clue in terms of what might be a "failsafe" is the double test protocol which is being considered for incoming air passengers to reduce the quarantine period, essentially applied in reverse.

 

Not that this would happen as it is impractical, but...

 

1) If all passengers agreed to follow strict quarantine or enhanced social distancing in the period before travel (and did), and,

 

 

 

 

And therein lies the biggest problem for me.  We have seen so many people so selfishly ignoring advice that my faith in this happening is zero!   Whilst I'm sure the majority would comply (as best they can  - no contact with any other family members living in your house who are going out to work?) there will be those who think it doesn't mean them.  I'm sorry to say, whist we've heard of some heart-warming stories and selfless acts we've also been alerted to some with very little social conscience.    

[terrierjohn]

48 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

Or in other words, it can be expected that one person with C19 will try to board every sailing of a ship the size of Arcadia or Aurora, or two people with the virus will try to get on each sailing of a ship the size of Ventura or Azura.  That's not good odds for ensuring a COVID  free cruise

The odds are better than you think  because anyone with the virus will be found on testing, so that reduces the odds significantly.

[terrierjohn]

45 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

I agree with you there but implying the cruise industry is representative of the whole world doesn’t work.  

I dont imply that at all, I merely point out that all aspects of living have to accommodate the virus if we are to avoid an ongoing global recession.

[Dermotsgirl]

5 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

The odds are better than you think  because anyone with the virus will be found on testing, so that reduces the odds significantly.

No tests are yet 100% effective. 

[d9704011]

2 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I dont imply that at all, I merely point out that all aspects of living have to accommodate the virus if we are to avoid an ongoing global recession.

Some sectors of the economy are going to have to ‘accommodate’ the virus differently than others.  Cruising is particularly sensitive to viral spreading and will have to wait.  Also, your assertion in post #29 doesn’t hold water.  Testing will not likely ever be 100% reliable.  Not to say we should wait until it is, but don’t start doing things with the idea that everybody is OK because they’ve been tested once or twice.

[Cathygh]

Well I have just returned from Turkey. I an you a little bit about holidays in this new world.  Extra precautions due to Covid were evident but not inconvenient as I am  now used to wearing a mask.The four hour flight was full but every one wore masks. On the return journey I was the third passenger to board and I could smell the disinfectant but only briefly. In the hotel all cutlery was in sealed bags. The buffet was served by staff but you could have as much as you liked. Pool towels were pre wrapped and sun beds sprayed after use .All staff wore masks- not easy in 38 degree heat. Guests only wore masks on transport and in shops. Our temperature was checked every time we entered the hotel. Social distance signs were everywhere. Sun beds and table were all spread out

We had to fill in lots of covid related paperwork at the hotel (mainly ticking boxes) and a passenger locator for online before we left. We had to show this at passport control on our return. There was the option to print out the form but it could only be filled in online. 

One thing that has happened and I now expect will happen on cruise ships is the increased use of apps. ( which I hate but I got used to them) Almost everything is paperless. You can still ask for copies of menus but they have to be disinfected after use making more work for staff. We didn't realise  for the first day that easiest way to get information was to download 2 apps, one for the tour operator and one for the hotel. We hadn't realised that to find out when the rep would be present we needed the app. To find out about excursions , our flight home etc we needed the app. You needed the hotel app to book a la carte restaurants.Bookings opened at 9 am 2 days in advance and were full in 10 minutes. If you wanted to book through  reception or guest services you had no chance.  Wifi in the hotel was free, but not consistent. 

If P&O decide to use apps they need to be absolutely certain that they are easy to use and a strong signal that can be accessed in all areas of the ship at all times. Anything less is pointless and there will be even longer queues at reception. 

We did some excursions, all socially distanced etc. 

I was nervous beforehand but it's given me confidence to travel again.  On a ship I wouldn't be bothered about wearing a mask in corridors. In the bars you will still be able to talk to people, one metre distance  isn't too far. On the subject of excursions I read somewhere they some could be included according to your cabin grade. I would miss being allowed to wander around freely but the holiday I have just had, as lovely as it was, made me miss cruising more than ever.

Cathy

 

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, Dermotsgirl said:

No tests are yet 100% effective. 

80 or 90% effective is surely better than nothing, although my understanding is that most tests are now fairly accurate.

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, d9704011 said:

Some sectors of the economy are going to have to ‘accommodate’ the virus differently than others.  Cruising is particularly sensitive to viral spreading and will have to wait.  Also, your assertion in post #29 doesn’t hold water.  Testing will not likely ever be 100% reliable.  Not to say we should wait until it is, but don’t start doing things with the idea that everybody is OK because they’ve been tested once or twice.

Try multiplying the effective percentage with the ONS figure for likely infectious people, and see just what the likelihood of someone slipping through the test is. Nothing in life is perfect, it is always a compromise.

As for cruising being particularly sensitive, I would argue that it was the inept way cruise lines, port authorities, local health services and media paranoia dealt with the outbreaks on cruise ships, that exacerbated the situation. Hopefully everyone has learnt lessons and any incidents in future will be handled far better.

[d9704011]

1 hour ago, terrierjohn said:

Try multiplying the effective percentage with the ONS figure for likely infectious people, and see just what the likelihood of someone slipping through the test is. Nothing in life is perfect, it is always a compromise.

As for cruising being particularly sensitive, I would argue that it was the inept way cruise lines, port authorities, local health services and media paranoia dealt with the outbreaks on cruise ships, that exacerbated the situation. Hopefully everyone has learnt lessons and any incidents in future will be handled far better.

I can do the math (alternatively, you should look at the potential impact of the reproduction number in a cruise ship environment).  Don’t agree with you on the ineptness or otherwise on the part of the industry or authorities and certainly, the media has zero to do with managing the pandemic.  To me, it’s an unfortunate confluence of the nature of the virus and the way cruises are (and likely will need to be to be economically viable) organized.

Edited August 30, 2020 by d9704011

[Snow Hill]

7 hours ago, Oulton Jim said:

-there is no perfect solution. More people are dying from 'flu so I read - are we to spend our lives in some weird 'limbo'? The current talk is that vaccines may be approved in UK by the end of the year, I would like to think that we begin to lose the 'fear' attitude once they become as available as the 'flu jab.

False information where more people dying of flu reports

 

https://fullfact.org/health/flu-covid-deaths/

[Josy1953]

23 hours ago, SarahHben said:

I was talking about excursion restrictions with the family earlier and we wondered if they might do some inexpensive walking tours of the ports for those that would normally wander close to the ship rather than do big excursions?


Sent from my iPhone using Forums

I would prefer walking tours of the port town rather than being on coach but I don't particularly like going at someone else's pace.  There are always places that I want to spend more time at and others where 5 minutes is too much.

[grapau27]

5 hours ago, Dermotsgirl said:

No tests are yet 100% effective. 

Israel have a gargle and spit test which is 95% effective and results take 1 second.

Edited August 30, 2020 by grapau27

[Josy1953]

I am hoping that the arrival of a vaccine will enable us to have a more normal life.  We are out this week for the first time since lockdown but it will be a while before we do it again. The restaurant has reduced the number of tables so  as to maintain social distancing but there were a lot of younger people in there who seemed not to be bothered.  We sat at a table where we could see the door and several times we saw people come in and spot someone they knew and immediately rush over to hug them even though the restaurant staff were trying to prevent them.

[grapau27]

11 minutes ago, Josy1953 said:

I am hoping that the arrival of a vaccine will enable us to have a more normal life.  We are out this week for the first time since lockdown but it will be a while before we do it again. The restaurant has reduced the number of tables so  as to maintain social distancing but there were a lot of younger people in there who seemed not to be bothered.  We sat at a table where we could see the door and several times we saw people come in and spot someone they knew and immediately rush over to hug them even though the restaurant staff were trying to prevent them.

I was sitting in a cafe having a coffee last Monday while Pauline's car was in for an MOT and saw the same thing happen at the table next to me when a woman came in and hugged a couple sitting there.

Edited August 30, 2020 by grapau27

[Oulton Jim]

3 hours ago, Snow Hill said:

False information where more people dying of flu reports

 

https://fullfact.org/health/flu-covid-deaths/

I am grateful for your link - I knew that I had read certain figures fore the latest 8 weeks - here they are [correct or no -they show you can prove most anything with stats]

 

In the eight weeks up to August 7, the latest date for which figures are available, 3,144 people died of coronavirus - but 7,639 died of flu or pneumonia.

Eight weeks ago, a total of 1,002 died of influenza up to June 19 - compared with 783 Covid-19 deaths.

[Oulton Jim]

I read of so many talking of there being no cruising until the second half of next year. My feeling is that vaccinations will be administered globally by the first month of 2021. If you add that to the protocol ships will be taking then I see no reason for such a delay. 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Oulton Jim

[Harry Peterson]

10 minutes ago, Oulton Jim said:

I read of so many talking of there being no cruising until the second half of next year. My feeling is that vaccinations will be administered globally by the first month of 2021. If you add that to the protocol ships will be taking then I see no reason for such a delay. 

Given that we don’t yet even have a vaccine that’s proven to be both safe and effective, your optimism seems misplaced.  
 

There may never be a vaccine, but if there is one it’s going to take a very long time before it can be rolled out across the world.

[Oulton Jim]

We will have to agree to disagree -on both points........

[Dermotsgirl]

24 minutes ago, Oulton Jim said:

We will have to agree to disagree -on both points........

Or wait 5 months to see what happens 

[Oulton Jim]

Quite. In December I will have to pay the balance of the April cruise on Aurora.

[Dermotsgirl]

40 minutes ago, Oulton Jim said:

Quite. In December I will have to pay the balance of the April cruise on Aurora.

Sounds like you are confident everything will be sorted out by the end of January, so I expect you are confident about your April cruise 

[Selbourne]

56 minutes ago, Oulton Jim said:

Quite. In December I will have to pay the balance of the April cruise on Aurora.

I presume that you booked via a travel agent if you are having to pay the balance so far in advance of your cruise? If so, I would try to get them to agree to you paying when the balance actually becomes due to P&O (currently 12 weeks prior to sail date).
 

My concern is that the current ‘experimental’ cruises are too short to be able to establish whether or not cruising is safe in a Covid world, as passengers may not become ill until a week or two after disembarking. It’s not inconceivable for lots of operators to recommence short cruises fairly soon, under the somewhat false assertion that no new outbreaks have occurred (because they didn’t become apparent during the actual cruise) and then, a few months down the line, someone joins the dots and cruises are all suspended again.

 

It has to be hoped that cruise operators will respond to customers concerns and narrow the window of ‘balance due’ dates to one month prior to sailing, but as they are getting more and more stretched from a cash flow perspective that might be a vain hope. None the less, I think that anyone who has booked via a TA should be pushing hard to avoid having to pay balances any earlier than those who booked direct 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Selbourne

[Harry Peterson]

And this indicates the difference between the theory, and what can actually happen in practice.

 

Good job it was a flight, and not a cruise, but mistakes happen, and people are fallible. Or even stupid.

Coronavirus: 'Covidiots' criticised on Tui quarantine flight

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53970217

[Vampiress88]

I’d go on a cruise. I think I’m at the point where I’m not worried about it. 
 

but I wouldn’t do it with restrictions. I wouldn’t be happy in a mask or going only on cruise lines excursions. 
 

it wouldn’t be a holiday so there wouldn’t be any point but everyone is back to school and work this week so if we are safe there and in numerous pubs then sure a cruise should be ok