APPROPRIATE ACTIONS OR EXTREME MEASURES?

[Goodtime Cruizin]

4 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

No, actually it is not whether I believe how much a mask will save me.  I look to the medical and scientific experts to determine that, and they say that a mask reduces the risk of transmission significantly.  It has nothing to do with what I believe.  It has to do with what has been proven with scientific studies, which too many people choose to ignore because they don't like the results.   Based on that, and based on what procedures the cruise lines choose to implement, I can determine whether the risk is one I am willing to take.

 

You're correct in that's it's your choice to cruise based on the risk / reward factor. You're risking your life for the enjoyment of a few days to a few weeks based on the actions of others on a cruise ship in the middle of a pandemic. BTW... it is a belief. You BELIEVE this science is correct. 

[Goodtime Cruizin]

10 minutes ago, npcl said:

based upon the report from the healthy sail committee the cruiselines will be requiring masks and passengers will have to certify that they will comply with the rules

 

This of course was expected. 

[phoenix_dream]

16 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

You're correct in that's it's your choice to cruise based on the risk / reward factor. You're risking your life for the enjoyment of a few days to a few weeks based on the actions of others on a cruise ship in the middle of a pandemic. BTW... it is a belief. You BELIEVE this science is correct. 

I guess there is no use further debating someone who thinks scientific facts are beliefs.  Done

[phoenix_dream]

27 minutes ago, npcl said:

based upon the report from the healthy sail committee the cruiselines will be requiring masks and passengers will have to certify that they will comply with the rules

Unfortunately, the report only provides recommendations - it can't require anything.  In fact, it mostly provides very vague recommendations at that (although the mask one is specific).  I suspect for cruises out of the US, the CDC will definitely require masks.  The key will be will the cruise lines actually enforce that policy, or be afraid to speak up to the passengers like they are for many other violations of so called recommendations.

[Goodtime Cruizin]

6 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

I guess there is no use further debating someone who thinks scientific facts are beliefs.  Done

 

Well OK... but not all science is a proven fact.  A lot of science is still theory waiting to be proven. With that said, take care and Happy Future Cruising. 

[Dr. Pam]

1 hour ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Pretty much. I know it sounds hard... but it's real. Neither of us need to cruise.  If you think a mask is going to save your life you should not place your life in a situation that depends on others to follow guidelines they do not believe in. Again, it's hard, but it's real.  How bad do you want to cruise? How much do you believe a mask will save you? These are two questions that only you can answer. 

Perhaps Goodtime Cruizin that just maybe... someone else wearing a mask MIGHT SAVE YOU! Would you in good conscience not want to do the same?  We are all in this together.  Be kind.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Dr. Pam

[Dr. Pam]

44 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Well OK... but not all science is a proven fact.  A lot of science is still theory waiting to be proven. With that said, take care and Happy Future Cruising. 

I am sorry for your most blatant ignorance on the definition of science.  I agree that theory is an educated hypothesis.  Take care and wear a mask for others and please for yourself.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Dr. Pam

[C-Dragons]

18 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

Unfortunately, the report only provides recommendations - it can't require anything.  In fact, it mostly provides very vague recommendations at that (although the mask one is specific).  I suspect for cruises out of the US, the CDC will definitely require masks.  The key will be will the cruise lines actually enforce that policy, or be afraid to speak up to the passengers like they are for many other violations of so called recommendations.

I believe that X will definitely enforce the policy. And I also think that the crew will be sure to speak to an Officer without fear of repercussion, if any guest decides that the rules do not apply to them. After all, it's not just the health and safety of guests that’s at stake, it's everyone on board, from the Captain on down.
It's one thing to be callous and ruin the vacations of people who have paid for the privilege, it's quite another to possibly infect members of the crew whose livelihoods would be at stake.

These policies, as has been pointed out, will be crucial to the future success or failure of the cruise industry. 

[Goodtime Cruizin]

24 minutes ago, Dr. Pam said:

Perhaps Goodtime Cruizin that just maybe... someone else wearing a mask MIGHT SAVE YOU! Would you in good conscience not want to do the same?  We are all in this together.  Be kind.

 

Wait. You actually think I have not weighed my own risk / reward factors? Pfft. This isn't about kindness either. In fact it has nothing to do with kindness. Let's be real here. Walking into the MDR w/ a mask on and rthen only to take it off when sitting is foolishness. Your science knows this too. Many on this thread are staing that wearing a mask will save lives. Yet ignore the realities that some have already been witnessed as NOT wearing a mask. (see Petra's thread) And yet they still want to go on a ship and complain. That's not being kind. That's being foolish. 

[Dr. Pam]

Okay....BE SMART!

[Goodtime Cruizin]

2 minutes ago, C-Dragons said:

I believe that X will definitely enforce the policy. And I also think that the crew will be sure to speak to an Officer without fear of repercussion, if any guest decides that the rules do not apply to them. After all, it's not just the health and safety of guests that’s at stake, it's everyone on board, from the Captain on down.
It's one thing to be callous and ruin the vacations of people who have paid for the privilege, it's quite another to possibly infect members of the crew whose livelihoods would be at stake.

These policies, as has been pointed out, will be crucial to the future success or failure of the cruise industry. 

 

Cruise at all costs... including lives. The Cruise Lines want the money, and you want the pleasure. And you just think because we all wear masks my life, your life is safe. Got it. Foolishness. 

[Goodtime Cruizin]

1 minute ago, Dr. Pam said:

Okay....BE SMART!

 

One can be both. But being smart is greater than being kind when on a cruise ship in the middle the ocean during a pandemic. 

[Pinboy]

Page 8 -- Holy Cow, there's a lot of dumb comments on this thread --- Ok , Ok, IMO !!

If the RULES stipulate to wear a mask , social distance, or whatever the hell the RULES are--- Follow them !!!

Leave your  " Entitlement " at home . Nobody gives a " hoot "  ( we use another word here ) who the hell you think you are , yup, nobody !!  

 

 

[Gracie115]

1 hour ago, C-Dragons said:

I believe that X will definitely enforce the policy. And I also think that the crew will be sure to speak to an Officer without fear of repercussion, if any guest decides that the rules do not apply to them. After all, it's not just the health and safety of guests that’s at stake, it's everyone on board, from the Captain on down.
It's one thing to be callous and ruin the vacations of people who have paid for the privilege, it's quite another to possibly infect members of the crew whose livelihoods would be at stake.

These policies, as has been pointed out, will be crucial to the future success or failure of the cruise industry. 

 

I agree completely!!  I have no doubt that at the very least when cruises first start happening again that the crew will be vigilant about enforcing protocol....their lives, their careers, all depend on the start up of cruising to be successful.

 

Outside of a medical condition wearing a mask is truly a simple, easy thing to do and, for us, will not hamper our cruise at all....too bad there are those that don't give a darn about their fellow human beings.  

Edited September 21, 2020 by Gracie115

[mayleeman]

Okay, I get it--vacationers do not deserve protection because leisure activity is unnecessary.

 

I wonder if the crew is deserving of protection. I mean, their support of their families, their very livelihood...yes? But it is a job catering to that unnecessary leisure enjoyment, so...no? Yikes, how silly!

 

I think if cruises restart, we will be able expect the crew to follow protocols not just for our benefit but for their own. I fully expect a crew member disregarding the rules will be disembarked at the next port. Safety is not optional for a virus that has a disproportionate impact on a disproportionately high segment of experienced cruisers.

Edited September 21, 2020 by mayleeman

[Fouremco]

5 minutes ago, mayleeman said:

Okay, I get it--vacationers do not deserve protection because leisure activity is unnecessary.

Just think of the money that could be saved used this "logic". Get rid of all the life guards at pools and beaches, because swimming is a leisure activity. Get rid of all the ski patrols, because no one NEEDS to ski. Get rid of Search & Rescue teams who look for lost hikers, as walking in the woods is unnecessary. While we're at it, let's get rid of football helmets because sports aren't necessary. 

[C-Dragons]

23 minutes ago, mayleeman said:

Okay, I get it--vacationers do not deserve protection because leisure activity is unnecessary.

 

Sorry, I disagree with that premise.

 

Imo, ALL people deserve protection, PERIOD. ☮️

Edited September 21, 2020 by C-Dragons

[Spif Barwunkel]

As is the case with all things controversial, we sometimes get in our own way when trying to sort through the differences of opinion and passionate pleas for understanding. That is especially the case when the conversation revolves around a subject we know nothing about. Throw in the potential for added rules and regulations, and, what some believe is an outright infringement on our freedoms and the cause becomes more zealous. Even when the health and safety of all - in differing degrees of course – is integral to the discussion, some of us still find ourselves clinging to that egocentric thread which serves as our only remaining lifeline that tethers us to our own self-absorbed reality.

 

I am sure that the “Deciders” will have gotten in their own way several times before the final decisions are made. I don’t know that they are any smarter than us but they will determine our cruising behavior for the immediate future, however long that might be. Perhaps it will be cruising as usual, no need for changes. Perhaps all passengers will have to cruise naked, under the constant glow of ultra-violet light and a Clorox spray wash three times a day. More than likely, it will be something in between.

 

Point being, for the good of all, let’s stay out of our own way if it does not work for us. It’s too easy to screw this up. There is nothing difficult about that. Hey, there’s always the next cruise.

 

Compliance + Enforcement = Cruising. The main ingredient here is People. The recipe won’t work without ‘em.    

[mayleeman]

40 minutes ago, C-Dragons said:

Sorry, I disagree with that premise.

 

Imo, ALL people deserve protection, PERIOD. ☮️

 

I guess recognizing facetiousness is a lost art.

 

Did you not realize I was ridiculing the concept of not protecting cruisers? Please read @Fouremco's reply: he gets it....

[Pinboy]

20 hours ago, Dr. Pam said:

I am so very sad that my DH and I will choose not to cruise until this pandemic is under control.

No need to be sad. You are being smart. Just read the comments from some of the posters and think whether you would want to be on a cruise with them. I get heart palpitations just thinking about it. Any recommendations DR Alberta ?

( Years ago I worked at the Banff Springs Hotel--- Beautiful property !!!!!  )

[Dr. Pam]

17 minutes ago, Pinboy said:

No need to be sad. You are being smart. Just read the comments from some of the posters and think whether you would want to be on a cruise with them. I get heart palpitations just thinking about it. Any recommendations DR Alberta ?

( Years ago I worked at the Banff Springs Hotel--- Beautiful property !!!!!  )

LOL.....FOR SURE!

 

RE: Hotels in Alberta....obviously you are well acquainted with the Fairmont Banff Springs.  SHe is the Queen Resort of the Mountains.  Also check out the Fairmont Lake Louise which is another stately property overlooking a beautiful turquoise lake and the mountains.  However, one of my favs in the Rockies is The POST HOTEL.  Intimate, fab dining room, incredible wine cellar!  Check out the rooms that are on the brook side of the property.  And again sadly, my DH and I have not wished to stay at a hotel or eat in a restaurant until COVID calms down.  Each to their own.  We both have elderly parents and want to have them around as long as we can.  :)

 

Pam

[Goodtime Cruizin]

It's really simple everybody. We all know this. But I guess it's worth posting. Each day, every day, in today's Covid era, each of us are required to make decisions that have effects or consequences on ourselves, our family, and others as well...all based on the behavior of others. You and/or I can jump up & down, scream to the top of our lungs our thoughts on wearing masks. None of this really matters though. What matters is what we do, the decions we make, and how we respond to other's behavior. 

 

So post away. Belittle others if you must. But bottomline, you either think the lack of a mask can kill or you don't. If you do, then you won't get on a ship. And if you do get on a ship, then your posts and thoughts on those that don't wear masks ring hollow. You can't have it both ways folks. 

 

Good day. 

 

 

[deliver42]

I'm booked on one cruise in 2021 and 2 in 2022. I'm not afraid of the virus per say, but of the ignorant people who refuse to obey the rules because it infringes on THEIR freedom. After following this thread what seems like forever, I'm really tempted to cancel all of them.

[Gracie115]

Hope springs eternal for the future of cruising:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-regulations-announced-for-cruising-s-return-to-us-waters/ar-BB19gWG9?ocid=msedgntp

[npcl]

3 minutes ago, Gracie115 said:

Hope springs eternal for the future of cruising:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-regulations-announced-for-cruising-s-return-to-us-waters/ar-BB19gWG9?ocid=msedgntp

one item. they mention that in case someone tests positive, they will be removed from the ship as soon as it can be done safely.  Does not mention how the person will get home, who will be responsible for their expenses, etc.