No Sail Order Lifted

[Steelers36]

3 hours ago, nocl said:

There is a recent study done by DOD that explored that in great depth.  Also there is massive air inflow and filtering on aircraft such that if particles in a cabin would be fully cleared within 6 minutes.  

 

Plus while there is well documented cases of transfer on cruise ships there are few cases on aircraft.  One on a flight from the US to Vietnam in the early days of the outbreak and one on Ryan air on a flight from the Med, back to UK.

Yes, I have read about how safe today's aircraft are.  I suspect your examples above are from before the major airlines upgraded their systems (but IDK as not dates given, other than the Vietnam example).  No doubt, airplanes are not 100% safe - nothing will be 100% (nor will chances of catching ever get to 0% as long as this virus lives).

 

I would have zero concern flying any major N.A. carrier.  I would also have zero concern getting on a Princess ship when they first sail.  I won't do that because I am not interested in the experience offered (lots of mask wearing, limited journey length, probable restrictions to go ashore). 

 

[HappyInVan]

On 11/4/2020 at 1:14 PM, Mike45LC said:

I wear a mask when I go into a business.  It is required by law and it is polite and respectful to the business owner and his/her/its employees and customers.  But I do not believe that it does anything to protect me or others from the virus.

 

 

Believe this...

 

 

[Steelers36]

3 hours ago, nocl said:

Maybe one should should follow the rules as provided hwne and if they plan on using a particular transportation form

It wasn't necessary to add a lecture about following rules.  I would expect to be doing so if going on a cruise in the near term, but as I mentioned above, not interested in the experience as it will initially be.  Hopefully, next fall after we have a vaccine and then should not have so many restrictions.

 

[nocl]

6 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

That is some trip!  Also, very safe in your own vehicle.

different trips. only while driving.

 

 

[nocl]

6 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

Yes, I have read about how safe today's aircraft are.  I suspect your examples above are from before the major airlines upgraded their systems (but IDK as not dates given, other than the Vietnam example).  No doubt, airplanes are not 100% safe - nothing will be 100% (nor will chances of catching ever get to 0% as long as this virus lives).

 

I would have zero concern flying any major N.A. carrier.  I would also have zero concern getting on a Princess ship when they first sail.  I won't do that because I am not interested in the experience offered (lots of mask wearing, limited journey length, probable restrictions to go ashore). 

 

you certainly willing to criticize the rules that the cruise lines are putting in place  so that others might cruise.

 

if you don't want to cruise with those rules fine, but others might and if they do they should prepared to follow the rules as put forth by the cruise line.

[Potstech]

9 hours ago, nocl said:

So say the quarantine requirements for ships in Europe according to the guidelines there.  quarantine in home country, 14 day quarantine on land before joining ship.  Then when they transfer having to follow the requirements as stated in the CDC framework.

 

Those are in writing what do you have backing your position.

As you say they are for Europe. What is required in the US could be different. We will have to wait and see on those.  Anything elseis pure speculation.

[Daniel A]

1 hour ago, nocl said:

you certainly willing to criticize the rules that the cruise lines are putting in place  so that others might cruise.

 

if you don't want to cruise with those rules fine, but others might and if they do they should prepared to follow the rules as put forth by the cruise line.

If there were rules that made a favorite activity unpalatable to me and I thought the rules were inordinately stringent why wouldn't I criticize those rules?  Likewise, if there were not sufficient rules or lack of enforcement of existing rules and that made a favorite activity unpalatable, I would want to criticize that as well.

 

Frankly, I really don't want to get on a cruise ship without documentation that every soul who boards that ship has been vaccinated against Covid.  I haven't been critical, but maybe now is a good time to criticize that I haven't seen any safety protocols articulated or proposed that factors in a reliable vaccine and how that would affect these other mitigation rules.

[voljeep]

2 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

If there were rules that made a favorite activity unpalatable to me and I thought the rules were inordinately stringent why wouldn't I criticize those rules?  Likewise, if there were not sufficient rules or lack of enforcement of existing rules and that made a favorite activity unpalatable, I would want to criticize that as well.

 

Frankly, I really don't want to get on a cruise ship without documentation that every soul who boards that ship has been vaccinated against Covid.  I haven't been critical, but maybe now is a good time to criticize that I haven't seen any safety protocols articulated or proposed that factors in a reliable vaccine and how that would affect these other mitigation rules.

airlines don't require a vaccine ... and you certainly are sitting next to someone for more than 15 minutes

 

why should cruise lines 'require' it ???

[Daniel A]

8 minutes ago, voljeep said:

airlines don't require a vaccine ... and you certainly are sitting next to someone for more than 15 minutes

 

why should cruise lines 'require' it ???

You aren't likely to see me on an aircraft anytime soon either.  Here's what CDC says about flying:

 

"Air travel requires spending time in security lines and airport terminals, which can bring you in close contact with other people and frequently touched surfaces. Most viruses and other germs do not spread easily on flights because of how air circulates and is filtered on airplanes. However, social distancing is difficult on crowded flights, and sitting within 6 feet of others, sometimes for hours, may increase your risk of getting COVID-19."

 

I find the double standard interesting that CDC recommendations for wearing a mask are considered as 'Gospel' but if they end up recommending that everyone get a vaccine - well, that's going to be a personal decision...

[ontheweb]

12 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

Agree - that is nuts having only one person (or couple) on a stairway at a time.  Lots of stairways are wide, plus it has been often and widely reported that momentary passing another person(s) is virtually ZERO chance of transmission and a more extended time in proximity of an infected person is necessary.  This is illustrated in that most "breakouts" come from large gatherings.  

 

PLUS, they are making people wear masks indoors.  IMO, such a stairway ruling is absolutely uncalled for.

 

I agree with you this makes no sense.

 

How are they going to get everyone to the muster drill with those stairway and elevator restrictions? Will they have to stagger people entering and leaving the theater with those restrictions? And if there is a fixed dining time, how do you get people there with those restrictions?

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, nocl said:

you certainly willing to criticize the rules that the cruise lines are putting in place  so that others might cruise.

 

if you don't want to cruise with those rules fine, but others might and if they do they should prepared to follow the rules as put forth by the cruise line.

But are the rules practicable? See my post preceding this one with some questions as to how this will work.

[voljeep]

4 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

going to be a personal decision...

exactly ... I haven't flown, but my wife has twice on RT's - all passengers required to wear masks ...

 

as my wife is in the medical profession , we, well she has always carried the wipes and hand sanitizers way before all this started ... that would be the first, well after her welcome aboard Pina Colada, thing to do in the cabin on a cruise - wipe down everything, spray the lysol , and by then time for the 2nd walkaround drink 🍹

[gmjc2]

6 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

I agree with you this makes no sense.

 

How are they going to get everyone to the muster drill with those stairway and elevator restrictions? Will they have to stagger people entering and leaving the theater with those restrictions? And if there is a fixed dining time, how do you get people there with those restrictions?

These issues have already been addressed in articles a while ago----Dining--  less tables and no large groups ( will probably cause longer wait times though)

Muster will be on TV in cabin with a system to know if you have watched it, such as a interactive screen with a button!

Theater will have 3 showings instead of two with alternate seating for distancing.

Bottom line is that the crew will have to be DILIGENT in their enforcing of all rules at all times.

Elevators will have small capacity limits ( that is going to be difficult to enforce though)

 

[Steelers36]

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

I agree with you this makes no sense.

 

How are they going to get everyone to the muster drill with those stairway and elevator restrictions? Will they have to stagger people entering and leaving the theater with those restrictions? And if there is a fixed dining time, how do you get people there with those restrictions?

Muster drill will be via TV in cabin - must watch it to do anything else with TV and they can probably check if it has been played in each cabin.

 

Of course, you could just let it play while unpacking or taking a shower and no one the wiser.

 

Edited November 6, 2020 by Steelers36

[Daniel A]

3 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

Muster drill will be via TV in cabin - must watch it to do anything else with TV and they can probably check if it has been played in each cabin.

 

Of course, you could just let it play while unpacking or taking a shower and no one the wiser.

 

I thought one of the main requirements of a muster is that the PAX physically go to the muster station so they know where it is and how to get there.

[HappyInVan]

Guys,

 

It's time to listen to the doctors and scientists. The people have spoken.

 

Don't cruise if you don't like the format. Plenty of other things to do. 🙄

[SNJCruisers]

10 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

I thought one of the main requirements of a muster is that the PAX physically go to the muster station so they know where it is and how to get there.

Royal and their subsidiaries like Celebrity are going to have muster done on their app and supposedly after watching it their will be a code that you need to enter at a kiosk that would be located at your muster station that you can enter at your leisure.  I'm assuming that it will be on the in cabin TVs for those cruisers that do not have a smart phone.

[USCcruisecrazy]

14 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

 

 

 

https://news.umanitoba.ca/walking-or-running-past-someone-will-likely-not-give-you-covid-19-say-experts/

 

https://www.facebook.com/DailyMail/posts/you-wont-catch-coronavirus-by-walking-past-an-infected-person-doctor-reveals-i-t/5315372828522422/

 

There have been lots of reports on this - casual, momentary passing another person.   Unmasked and particularly outdoors.  Thing is in a ship stairwell, people have masks on and you on pass by in a matter of seconds. 

 

Anyway, no matter what is posted here, people will choose to believe what they want and can find articles to support that and can make their own decisions. 

 

 

You are spot on with your analysis.  Yes, there is a slight chance one could catch the virus in casual passing...but less chance of that then being struck by lightning.  Here's a few realities:  1) if people are masked it eliminates the chance that droplets will be breathed in and the droplets are the main opportunity to be infected; 2) if passing someone while masked and them being masked as well isn't sufficent to stop the spread, then why wear masks; 3) people do not properly care for their masks, refrain from touching their masks, or have fitted masks, so until those factors are all addressed, keeping that mask on your face after walking through droplets in the air is makes it more likely you get infected because the droplets stick to the cloth and you continue to breathe them in.

 

But I'm with you...people believe what they want...they can find support for either "Truth" on the internet...I personally live with someone on the front lines and believe she has kept me honest in how it spreads and what are the real precautions to take...that's where I base my opinions.  FYI:  every single doctor in her Clinic have condemned lockdowns as being more of a health risk to many more people...they prefer protecting the vulnerable and opening everything up.  But what do they know...they're just Doctors.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, gmjc2 said:

 

Muster will be on TV in cabin with a system to know if you have watched it, such as a interactive screen with a button!

 

 

Our experienced mariners, Cheng, Heidi, and Aquahound have all said over and over that the muster drill is more for the crew than the passengers. Cheng has bluntly said that as a passenger the only thing you are supposed to do is get there and shut up and listen.

 

So how does having it play on your tv accomplish that? And if a real emergency happened, is just sitting in front of your tv what you are prepared to do?

[Steelers36]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

I thought one of the main requirements of a muster is that the PAX physically go to the muster station so they know where it is and how to get there.

As  someone else posted, you will drop by your muster station and get pinged in or enter a code.

[gmjc2]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

Our experienced mariners, Cheng, Heidi, and Aquahound have all said over and over that the muster drill is more for the crew than the passengers. Cheng has bluntly said that as a passenger the only thing you are supposed to do is get there and shut up and listen.

 

So how does having it play on your tv accomplish that? And if a real emergency happened, is just sitting in front of your tv what you are prepared to do?

I don't believe the passengers of any ship in distress are going to just sit back and watch their TVs, do you? I'm certain the crew is highly trained and drilled enough to handle themselves.

 

The point of the interactive video is so that passengers become familiar with the life jacket use, the emergency whistle protocol, then  their muster location can be visited later at their leisure, allowing for social distancing practices to be effective. Most people naturally fall into line under those who are clearly leaders in disasters, so I'm sure everyone will, in fact, shut up and listen.

[USCcruisecrazy]

3 minutes ago, gmjc2 said:

I don't believe the passengers of any ship in distress are going to just sit back and watch their TVs, do you? I'm certain the crew is highly trained and drilled enough to handle themselves.

 

The point of the interactive video is so that passengers become familiar with the life jacket use, the emergency whistle protocol, then  their muster location can be visited later at their leisure, allowing for social distancing practices to be effective. Most people naturally fall into line under those who are clearly leaders in disasters, so I'm sure everyone will, in fact, shut up and listen.

I don't know...I saw the Movie Titanic...it was a disaster!!  No pun intended.  🙂

[nocl]

5 hours ago, Daniel A said:

If there were rules that made a favorite activity unpalatable to me and I thought the rules were inordinately stringent why wouldn't I criticize those rules?  Likewise, if there were not sufficient rules or lack of enforcement of existing rules and that made a favorite activity unpalatable, I would want to criticize that as well.

 

Frankly, I really don't want to get on a cruise ship without documentation that every soul who boards that ship has been vaccinated against Covid.  I haven't been critical, but maybe now is a good time to criticize that I haven't seen any safety protocols articulated or proposed that factors in a reliable vaccine and how that would affect these other mitigation rules.

often the criticism of rules in the form of that rule is ridiculous goes hand in hand with not going follow it. why because it is ridiculous. social distancing that is ridiculous, masks they are ridiculous. and so on.

 

If a cruise has a rule you don't like fine discuss the merits and don't go on a cruise while it is there. but keep in mind that the rule would not be there if someone more knowledgeable about the issue did not have a valid reason for it.

[c-boy]

2 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

As  someone else posted, you will drop by your muster station and get pinged in or enter a code.

say your avatar is poppin'  😀

[nocl]

6 hours ago, Potstech said:

As you say they are for Europe. What is required in the US could be different. We will have to wait and see on those.  Anything elseis pure speculation.

but if they did what you proposed and send them to a ship in EU waters for training  then from there to the US they would have to clear both sets of quarantine rules. More than doubling the time than if they just set them directly to a US ship. (EU rules for quarantine are more stringent). That makes it unlikely and more likely that the person heading to the Regal will be working on that ship.