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35 minutes ago, Tree_skier said:

I'm sure my sarcasm was a little to subtle for you.  I'll try harder to be less obtuse.

 

40,250 children go missing in Canada every year but you wouldn't know that because the media hasn't told you to be scared for your children yet.

Geez Louise, tell the whole story will ya!  It’s tragic that over 40,00 children go missing every year in Canada but the RCMP reports that approximately 500 of them remain missing after 12 months.  As usual, the cherry-picked, incomplete data you’ve chosen to push an agenda of some sort doesn’t hold up to much scrutiny.

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2 hours ago, firefly333 said:

It's about the teachers demands, not about kids good. 

I have mixed feelings about this.

 

Yes, teachers are easy targets as are their unions.  However, they are also human beings.  Many are over 60, many have medical conditions.   Like most people, they have vulnerable parents and grandparents.

 

Yes, it's easy to take cheap shot at teachers, but harder to put ourselves in their shoes.

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2 minutes ago, yogimax said:

I have mixed feelings about this.

 

Yes, teachers are easy targets as are their unions.  However, they are also human beings.  Many are over 60, many have medical conditions.   Like most people, they have vulnerable parents and grandparents.

 

Yes, it's easy to take cheap shot at teachers, but harder to put ourselves in their shoes.

But yet we dont make people do virtual grocery shopping.

 

And it's been taken to some extremes. At one time teachers on zoom here were told to wear masks to set a example. Also teachers here refused to go in even at schools that were not virtual. TV news showed kids sitting all day at a computer in the library while teachers stayed home. Parents werent happy. Some children dont learn well sitting at a computer. The poorest families seem to be hit the worst. 

 

I know teachers are afraid too, but its hurting our kids. Maybe hire some of each, zoom from home at a lower salary, and a bonus for in person. 

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13 minutes ago, yogimax said:

I have mixed feelings about this.

 

Yes, teachers are easy targets as are their unions.  However, they are also human beings.  Many are over 60, many have medical conditions.   Like most people, they have vulnerable parents and grandparents.

 

Yes, it's easy to take cheap shot at teachers, but harder to put ourselves in their shoes.

Does everyone live together in NY?  You support unions too?

 

I was out of the house and in boot camp just two weeks after high school graduation. Never returned to Mom/Dad to live. My brothers followed as well, but college for them. I got my college during and after Army. 
 

M8

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10 minutes ago, yogimax said:

I have mixed feelings about this.

 

Yes, teachers are easy targets as are their unions.  However, they are also human beings.  Many are over 60, many have medical conditions.   Like most people, they have vulnerable parents and grandparents.

 

Yes, it's easy to take cheap shot at teachers, but harder to put ourselves in their shoes.

Agreed. I teach grad students part time in person for next to nothing, no union. I could just say it's not worth it and quit, but then I'd be putting someone else at risk (assuming they find someone else who's qualified, it's not like teaching grade school) not to mention letting the students down through no fault of their own. The Covid protocols seem to be working well for us but it requires a high degree of cooperation and discipline from everyone including limiting contact with others outside our spheres. It's a huge, long-duration ask.

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2 hours ago, broberts said:

 

Utter nonsense. I have not seen any reports of deaths from rabid squirrel bites this year.

59,000 people die of rabies worldwide every year.  Mostly from bats, but hey, bats are just squirrels with wings.  They're all rodents.  

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3 hours ago, d9704011 said:

Geez Louise, tell the whole story will ya!  It’s tragic that over 40,00 children go missing every year in Canada but the RCMP reports that approximately 500 of them remain missing after 12 months.  As usual, the cherry-picked, incomplete data you’ve chosen to push an agenda of some sort doesn’t hold up to much scrutiny.

Geez Louise, not cherry picking at all just trying to understand the logic behind the fear mongering.  So I should assume you are not afraid of your children/grandchildren going missing as long as they are returned to within 12 months? The probability of your child/grandchild going missing for any period of time is exponentially greater than their risk to covid. That is absolute fact, not cherry picked data. You just don't like it that's all because it doesn't support your bias'd presupposition. My data is very, very complete.  The CDC calculates and the WHO concurs the IFR at...

 

0-19 years: 0.00003 

20-49 years: 0.0002 

50-69 years: 0.005 

70+ years: 0.054

 

In spite of that I'm supposed to accept the schools being closed, businesses being driven to bankruptcy and a 50% increase in Opioid overdose deaths.  In BC this year the increase in those who died as a result of overdose since mid-March has doubled.  The total increase in overdose death, since the beginning of the covid restriction, is three times that of those who died with covid. As an additional little fact you don't care about... the average age of those deaths is half of that of Covid deaths.

 

I believe with every fibre of my being in protecting the vulnerable.  I just don't think that the only vulnerable are in LTC homes and 83 years old.  Public health decisions have to take into account the consequence of their decisions not just what CNN tells them to think.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Tree_skier said:

I'm sure my sarcasm was a little to subtle for you.  I'll try harder to be less obtuse.

 

40,250 children go missing in Canada every year but you wouldn't know that because the media hasn't told you to be scared for your children yet.

And way more sets of keys. But wow they usually turn up. Once your dead no coming back.

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10 minutes ago, Tree_skier said:

My data is very, very complete.  The CDC calculates and the WHO concurs the IFR at...

 

 

0-19 years: 0.00003 

20-49 years: 0.0002 

50-69 years: 0.005 

70+ years: 0.054

But is it out of date?  Since you don't provide a link for your data, I had to go find it myself.  I found this: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html.  It has the exact same numbers you post, but under the "Current Best Estimate" table, and the date is listed as "Last Updated: September 10, 2020"  If you're only going to post part of the table, isn't that the definition of "cherry picking"?

 

Here's the complete table: 

image.png.5aed81c0de3c0123782829cd1d37efde.png

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28 minutes ago, bretts173 said:

And way more sets of keys. But wow they usually turn up. Once your dead no coming back.

Yeah and there is no long term consequence to a child being abducted. It's just like losing keys, easily replaced at the little kiosk down at the mall.

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16 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

But is it out of date?  Since you don't provide a link for your data, I had to go find it myself.  I found this: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html.  It has the exact same numbers you post, but under the "Current Best Estimate" table, and the date is listed as "Last Updated: September 10, 2020"  If you're only going to post part of the table, isn't that the definition of "cherry picking"?

 

Here's the complete table: 

image.png.5aed81c0de3c0123782829cd1d37efde.png

I'm not cherry picking I'm posting the most current publicly available data. Do you think the data has changed substantially since that time?  Of course it hasn't or the CDC or WHO would update the data.  This is the most current data.  If you have data from the CDC or WHO or similar Public health body that contradicts this by all means post it.

Edited by Tree_skier
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3 hours ago, yogimax said:

I have mixed feelings about this.

 

Yes, teachers are easy targets as are their unions.  However, they are also human beings.  Many are over 60, many have medical conditions.   Like most people, they have vulnerable parents and grandparents.

 

Yes, it's easy to take cheap shot at teachers, but harder to put ourselves in their shoes.

I agree.

When  it comes to cruising, the people with these conditions are told to stay home if you are afraid, let those who want to, cruise.

Now the message being sent to these people are suck it up and go do your job, if you die, you were going to die soon anyway.

Teachers and other people of high risk, stay home if that’s what feels best for you. You owe nobody anything, take care of yourself and loved ones.

 

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39 minutes ago, Tree_skier said:

I'm not cherry picking I'm posting the most current publicly available data. Do you think the data has changed substantially since that time?  Of course it hasn't or the CDC or WHO would update the data.  This is the most current data.  If you have data from the CDC or WHO or similar Public health body that contradicts this by all means post it.

If you think only posting one part of a chart isn't "cherry picking", I don't know what to tell you.  Heck, you even misrepresented the data.  The numbers you grabbed were the "best case scenario", NOT what is actually happening, which is what you claimed.    

 

And yes, I would think the data has changed substantially since that time.  It could actually be for the better, since we're now at about a 2% fatality rate vs the 5-10% at the beginning.  

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1 minute ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

If you think only posting one part of a chart isn't "cherry picking", I don't know what to tell you.  

 

And yes, I would think the data has changed substantially since that time.  It could actually be for the better, since we're now at about a 2% fatality rate vs the 5-10% at the beginning.  

In what way does the additional data you posted change the context of what I stated originally?

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Just now, Tree_skier said:

In what way does the additional data you posted change the context of what I stated originally?

I went back and edited my post, but to make it easy for you, the numbers in the chart that you used show the BEST CASE SCENARIO.  You presented the numbers as that's what is happening.  

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7 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

I went back and edited my post, but to make it easy for you, the numbers in the chart that you used show the BEST CASE SCENARIO.  You presented the numbers as that's what is happening.  

 

Sorry you need to read your post again.  You posted best estimate and best case.  My numbers come from the best estimate column (most likely) scenario.  Again, what context is missing by summarizing the most likely scenario.

 

Also, I don't need you to make the data easier for me.  Simply read the words.  They have meaning.

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3 hours ago, Tree_skier said:

 

 

In spite of that I'm supposed to accept the schools being closed, businesses being driven to bankruptcy and a 50% increase in Opioid overdose deaths.  In BC this year the increase in those who died as a result of overdose since mid-March has doubled.  The total increase in overdose death, since the beginning of the covid restriction, is three times that of those who died with covid. As an additional little fact you don't care about... the average age of those deaths is half of that of Covid deaths.

 

 

Our murder rate is way up, as is our suicide rate and abuse. We had 7 child abuse cases in one week, more than the whole previous year. Apparently locking up some parents with their kids the parents stress out and take it out on their kids. Not every parent here can teach. They made all the teachers here learn spanish to talk to the immigrant parents who dont speak English. Our border towns like el paso have no hospital beds.

 

Even some PTSD cases from the stress. 

 

I dont think locking kids up is healthy. Even me, I feel stressed. I can walk around the block or a park outdoors. They are calling it covid fatigue. I got it myself.

 

We go into stricter lock downs if we have 7 days in a row of 15% covid beds, today was day 4, thursday if beds dont drop we quit extra things like chemo, has to be emergency.  More lock downs coming after Thursday. My dad still cant get his pacemaker battery tested at his heart doctor, other things. 

 

Now that faucci also said kids should be in school some listening, before when it was said was political they said and ignored., dumb letting kids suffer

 

Kroger and some grocery stores paid workers a front line bonus a few times. That's what I suggested for teachers who teach in person. 

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36 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

More than 1,000,000 dead from the disease in less than a year. That is not fear mongering, it is fact.

Dead with the disease not from it.  Very different metric.  

 

480,000 people die from smoking every single year yet it is sold all across Canada and the United States and heavily taxed to fund government coffers.  

 

I think it is significant that you parsed one line from my post and then replied with an emotive post further supporting my fear mongering premise.

 

58,389,000 people die every year.  That proves nothing.

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6 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Does everyone live together in NY?  You support unions too?

 

I was out of the house and in boot camp just two weeks after high school graduation. Never returned to Mom/Dad to live. My brothers followed as well, but college for them. I got my college during and after Army. 
 

M8

Same here, joined ARMY at 16. Best decision ever made... My 11yr old Grand Daughter was on Computer only 3hrs a Day first couple months, now up to almost 6 but Teacher is trying handle 44 kids online at same time. Fortunately my Grand D is Intelligent and self motivated but going from Gifted Program and now OL in reg Class shes just bored. Step Mom was Teacher, retired 2yrs ago, She agrees kids need be in school

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25 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Our murder rate is way up, as is our suicide rate and abuse. We had 7 child abuse cases in one week, more than the whole previous year. Apparently locking up some parents with their kids the parents stress out and take it out on their kids. Not every parent here can teach. They made all the teachers here learn spanish to talk to the immigrant parents who dont speak English. Our border towns like el paso have no hospital beds.

 

Even some PTSD cases from the stress. 

 

I dont think locking kids up is healthy. Even me, I feel stressed. I can walk around the block or a park outdoors. They are calling it covid fatigue. I got it myself.

 

We go into stricter lock downs if we have 7 days in a row of 15% covid beds, today was day 4, thursday if beds dont drop we quit extra things like chemo, has to be emergency.  More lock downs coming after Thursday. My dad still cant get his pacemaker battery tested at his heart doctor, other things. 

 

Now that faucci also said kids should be in school some listening, before when it was said was political they said and ignored., dumb letting kids suffer

 

Kroger and some grocery stores paid workers a front line bonus a few times. That's what I suggested for teachers who teach in person. 

I work with and around at risk people.  These public health measures have been utterly catastrophic for community members on the margins of society and have done for more damage than good.  I deal with the carnage on a daily basis. I post very little personal information on CC for a reason, I have no interest in telling sad stories to try evoke an emotional response.  If people are incapable of looking at the data, critically analyzing the consequences of decisions and adjusting their views accordingly I'm sure I have no answer for their cognitive dissonance. 

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