Some in Congress want the CDC to put back the "no sail" order

[caribill]

Members of Congress are calling for the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to reinstate its "no-sail" order, which expired at the end of October and was replaced by a "Conditional Sailing Order" that allows a phased-in return to cruising.

 

full story at   https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-putting-american-lives-risk-204133748.html

[nocl]

11 hours ago, caribill said:

Members of Congress are calling for the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to reinstate its "no-sail" order, which expired at the end of October and was replaced by a "Conditional Sailing Order" that allows a phased-in return to cruising.

 

full story at   https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-putting-american-lives-risk-204133748.html

This should put to bed the notion that congress will modify pvsa to allow cruises to sail to Alaska before Canada opens up.

[Tak8]

Not surprising even the latest developments.  If a small ship is having trouble, what will larger even with capacity control, ships be like. I write this with 2 cruises planned for next year. Bring on the vaccine. 

[pms4104]

56 minutes ago, nocl said:

This should put to bed the notion that congress will modify pvsa to allow cruises to sail to Alaska before Canada opens up.

Where did that come from?  The OP said nothing about PVSA.

[nocl]

6 minutes ago, pms4104 said:

Where did that come from?  The OP said nothing about PVSA.

no but it goes the fact that members from congress including at least one from a major cruise port state want the ban reapplied shows that there is unlikely to be support for modifications to the pvsa that many on cc were hoping for.

[pms4104]

17 minutes ago, nocl said:

no but it goes the fact that members from congress including at least one from a major cruise port state want the ban reapplied shows that there is unlikely to be support for modifications to the pvsa that many on cc were hoping for.

Apples and oranges.

[nocl]

4 minutes ago, pms4104 said:

Apples and oranges.

it all goes into the fruit salad of areas where congress makes the laws.

[iancal]

Make no difference to us.  Our decision to cruise or not to cruise will not be based on Congress or CDC.

 

It will be based upon when WE feel that it is safe to cruise.

[ontheweb]

4 hours ago, iancal said:

Make no difference to us.  Our decision to cruise or not to cruise will not be based on Congress or CDC.

 

It will be based upon when WE feel that it is safe to cruise.

But for those who think the whole thing is a hoax and want to get on a cruise today as well as the last several months, what the CDC or possibly Congress does, does mean something.

[Ombud]

It's depressing to think that I'm getting yet another canceled 

[Hlitner]

The CDC Guidelines are, in many ways, akin to a no sail order.  The requirements to resume cruising are onerous and ultimately depend on the CDC granting, ship by ship, authorization.  When I read the original CDC document I posted that there is nothing in the guidelines that requires the CDC to approve any ship for cruising.   In some ways I believe the CDC simply shifted the burden from the CDC to the cruise lines who now have to find a way to comply with the tough requirements.   But if folks simply look at facts rather then speculate, the data is really bad.  Consider that in Europe, where they tried some limited cruising with very tough guidelines, there have been more then 140 COVID cases on the ships with several River Cruises having multiple cases.  Most European cruising has either stopped or is being further limited (such as just staying within Italy).  The recent situation with the Sea Dream (which embarked from Barbados) is a great example of why cruisng is just not going to work (for long) in the US market.  The Sea Dream only had about 60 patients, all were tested several times, and a case stilled slipped through the cracks and apparently spread COVID to several other passengers.  The Sea Dream is a small very spacious high end ship and yet they could not even stay COVID free.  A large mass market ship, even operating at reduced capacity is doomed to failure.  It might not happen the first cruise or even the 2nd, but it will happen and the publicity will be UGLY.

 

Hank

P.S,  Praying that one or more vaccines makes this COVID thing a distant memory.

[ontheweb]

45 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

The CDC Guidelines are, in many ways, akin to a no sail order.  The requirements to resume cruising are onerous and ultimately depend on the CDC granting, ship by ship, authorization.  When I read the original CDC document I posted that there is nothing in the guidelines that requires the CDC to approve any ship for cruising.   In some ways I believe the CDC simply shifted the burden from the CDC to the cruise lines who now have to find a way to comply with the tough requirements.   But if folks simply look at facts rather then speculate, the data is really bad.  Consider that in Europe, where they tried some limited cruising with very tough guidelines, there h😃ave been more then 140 COVID cases on the ships with several River Cruises having multiple cases.  Most European cruising has either stopped or is being further limited (such as just staying within Italy).  The recent situation with the Sea Dream (which embarked from Barbados) is a great example of why cruisng is just not going to work (for long) in the US market.  The Sea Dream only had about 60 patients, all were tested several times, and a case stilled slipped through the cracks and apparently spread COVID to several other passengers.  The Sea Dream is a small very spacious high end ship and yet they could not even stay COVID free.  A large mass market ship, even operating at reduced capacity is doomed to failure.  It might not happen the first cruise or even the 2nd, but it will happen and the publicity will be UGLY.

 

Hank

P.S,  Praying that one or more vaccines makes this COVID thing a distant memory.

BTW, there were 53 PASSENGERS, not almost 60 patients. Sometimes the typos can be more interesting than if the proper word was used.😃

[Shaver John]

I guess I am happy that the CDC is taking the health of the American public at heart. Don't put the cruise companies in a situation where folks are bugging them to sail and then have outbreaks. If this keeps happening how long will it be before no cruise ships will be on the Ocean at all. I would rather wait a year or two but do it correctly and without folks all pushing for some trips that will cause folks to get sick or even worse die.

[caribill]

6 hours ago, Hlitner said:

P.S,  Praying that one or more vaccines makes this COVID thing a distant memory.

 

Measles is another disease that is airborne for spreading. It can live for hours in the air and requires close to 95% immunization to achieve herd immunity.

 

So I expect any vaccines for the new coronavirus that causes Covid-19 to also require 95% immunization to achieve true herd immunity.

 

 

[gmjc2]

18 hours ago, pms4104 said:

Apples and oranges.

I disagree. The fact that congress wants to restrict cruising it makes sense that they would not approve a change in the Jones/PVSA to open up Alaska.  There is a thread that discusses this idea.

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

19 hours ago, Tak8 said:

Not surprising even the latest developments.  If a small ship is having trouble, what will larger even with capacity control, ships be like. I write this with 2 cruises planned for next year. Bring on the vaccine. 

I agree with you ...

[Hlitner]

7 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Measles is another disease that is airborne for spreading. It can live for hours in the air and requires close to 95% immunization to achieve herd immunity.

 

So I expect any vaccines for the new coronavirus that causes Covid-19 to also require 95% immunization to achieve true herd immunity.

 

 

Funny you mention Measles (the MMR Vaccine) since there was recently (a couple of years ago) another outbreak here in the USA...primarily in NYC.  Why?  Because there are still enough anti-vaxers who have avoided that vaccine for themselves and even their families.  Once (and if) we get some COVID vaccines this is going to be a huge problem.  That is why I have been ranting about the two governors who have done their best to question any future COVID vaccine and thus drive more doubt into the minds of those who already dislike vaccines.   Politicians can use their voice to do a lot of good, but they also have the power to cause lots of bad things including death!  These two Governors have already done a lot of harm (one did try to do some backtracking) which will not be easily fixed.

 

Hank

[cruisemom42]

7 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Measles is another disease that is airborne for spreading. It can live for hours in the air and requires close to 95% immunization to achieve herd immunity.

 

So I expect any vaccines for the new coronavirus that causes Covid-19 to also require 95% immunization to achieve true herd immunity.

 

 

 

This should not be the case. While both are airborne, measles is significantly more infectious than COVID-19. If you are exposed to someone with measles, odds are you will get measles. With COVID, while still infectious, there is a better chance, on average, that you won't get it. (Certain high risk categories excepted...). This graph illustrates the point, showing the infectivity of several viruses for comparsion (each dot = one person).

 

So obtaining such a high level of herd immunity for COVID is probably both unobtainable -- and unnecessary. However, I think we certainly need more % vaccinated than current numbers show are willing to get it.

 

 

[Lucky TGO]

23 hours ago, iancal said:

Make no difference to us.  Our decision to cruise or not to cruise will not be based on Congress or CDC.

 

It will be based upon when WE feel that it is safe to cruise.

I totally agree with you. That’s the main reason why I have not booking a cruise for 2021.

I rather be safe then sorry. 
Tony

[Ombud]

11 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Funny you mention Measles (the MMR Vaccine) since there was recently (a couple of years ago) another outbreak here in the USA...

my granddaughter caught the measles last year so I doubt the vaccine is 95% effective. Was itchy & sleepy a few days. Unfortunately it takes more than a few days to recover from Covid-19 so I hope it has a better success rate

[Hlitner]

15 minutes ago, Ombud said:

my granddaughter caught the measles last year so I doubt the vaccine is 95% effective. Was itchy & sleepy a few days. Unfortunately it takes more than a few days to recover from Covid-19 so I hope it has a better success rate

I did not make this up but exaggerated.  According the CDC the MMR vaccine is:

One dose of MMR vaccine is 93% effective against measles, 78% effective against mumps, and 97% effective against rubella.

 

The CDC admits that about 3 out of 100 children (that is 3%)  will still get measles if exposed the virus but they are likely to have a milder illness

 

The World Health Organization is not as effusive saying that about 85% get immunity from the first shot...so they recommend the 2nd shot (which is the standard here in the USA).

 

Hank

 

 

 

 

[Ombud]

@Hlitner guess she's just 'lucky' to be part of 7% that it doesn't work for. Fortunately those 3 only last a few days 

[Tippyton]

We have people in our government who abhor private business but have zero experience in the real world.  They could give 2 ships if the cruise industry went under.  Power grab and nothing more.

[jhannah]

Remember the old mantra from the sixties, "Give peace a chance?" The only way to determine if the protocols work is to use them. IMO reinstating the cruise ban is knee-jerk, and would likely deal a fatal blow to most of the cruise industry ... and scores of support industries.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, jhannah said:

Remember the old mantra from the sixties, "Give peace a chance?" The only way to determine if the protocols work is to use them. IMO reinstating the cruise ban is knee-jerk, and would likely deal a fatal blow to most of the cruise industry ... and scores of support industries.

Unfortunately, when they have been giving it a chance, it has not worked out so well. Many cases on the European cruises starting with the first in Norway and continuing in Italy and Germany. And now we have had the Sea Breeze with only 53 passengers sailing from Barbados, and ending up being cut short as Covid showed up.