Plain and Simple

[oracer]

You should not be allowed on a cruise ship UNTIL you have been tested and UNTIL you have proof of having taken the vaccine.   Also cruise ships should not be allowed to port unless they have a private island and all workers on that island have the same standards.   I can not see going to an island (Caribbean) unless they have the same standards, even escorted excursions.

 

I think the Barbados cruise ship showed that testing alone doesn't work.

[oteixeira]

I propose the same rules for all grocery stores, airports, modes of transport where you are near people not in your immediate family dwelling, and all other places we can gather.  Sound fair?   

[oracer]

Nope, not the same on grocery stores.   In our state, looks like 25% capacity for these essential services will go into effect.  All of the other places yes for airports and transportation services should be limited.  Unfortunately, the spread has gotten worse and I am like a lot of people, wanting to go on a vacation and especially on a cruise ship, but the Barbados incident showed even having less than 250 people is not safe.   

 

I am not having Thanksgiving this year with the kids and relatives.  Just trying to be cautious and really making it sad.   Not going to be a safe Xmas I fear as well.   I am hoping the news of full vaccinations are available my mid-summer, then we can start to do some of those things.   Once I have the anti-bodies, then I will feel much more safe.

[Carpe-Diem]

38 minutes ago, oracer said:

You should not be allowed on a cruise ship UNTIL you have been tested and UNTIL you have proof of having taken the vaccine.   Also cruise ships should not be allowed to port unless they have a private island and all workers on that island have the same standards.   I can not see going to an island (Caribbean) unless they have the same standards, even escorted excursions.

 

I think the Barbados cruise ship showed that testing alone doesn't work.

No

[PTC DAWG]

Man, folks are running scared....cancelling Thanksgiving?  Wow.....I wouldn't dream of it.  Neither would my family.  

[ColeThornton]

7 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

Man, folks are running scared....cancelling Thanksgiving?  Wow.....I wouldn't dream of it.  Neither would my family.  

 

 

Some folks have quite a few elderly in their families who have so-called underlying conditions that make them vulnerable.   They know what is best for their family situation.  If that's what they chose then so be it.

[pcakes122]

33 minutes ago, oracer said:

  Once I have the anti-bodies, then I will feel much more safe.

I have antibodies and even I don't feel safe.  There's no guarantee that my antibodies make me immune. 🙁

[Trimone]

Stamp in your passport, tested when you go onshore, if positive on return your off, send for your luggage, isolate until ready to get flight home...

Sounds bad, but read the latest terms and conditions in contract, sections 10-14. NCL advise you to agree with them before signing.

[hoops71]

I don't understand.  Why is proof of vaccination (once widely available) so shocking or outrageous?  We require this proof in schools for mumps, measles, etc.  I won't choose to live in fear either.  But why is this public health requirement so abhorrent?

[oracer]

I say there are 244, 598 reason why a vaccination would be a logical step.   No one made me GOD (and sure not even remotely qualified), I am trying to put reasoning into options to start cruising again.

[MeHeartCruising]

My brother is currently quarantining at home with symptoms that started last Tuesday.  First it just seemed like a typical winter cough.  Then on Friday, the low-grade fever set in.  He was tested on Friday.   Over the weekend the fever left, but he's left with coughing, headaches, achy body, inability to sleep.  We are in a rural county of PA and he wears his mask when near others at work and such.  What's the big problem, you say?  Well, his wife and son, who live in the same house as him, both work at an assisted living center.  That center has been battling to keep COVID from getting in and killing residents.  Did they bring it in to the center?  Too early to tell.  But it's possible.  His daughter, who also lives with him, is an elementary school teacher that is in a school that is still holding in-person classes.  Did she just give it to a student to take home to their extended family?  Too early to tell.  But it's possible.

 

Our family will be cancelling group gatherings for Thanksgiving and Christmas this year just like my brother's family just cancelled a small birthday party for a 1-year old grandson.  My mother is 82 years old and therefore at risk.   Our county spent much of the spring and summer hovering with 4-10 cases per day.  Today, they announced 99.  

 

Keep living your lives like it's normal out there.  Maybe you'll get lucky and not be affected.  Maybe you'll contribute to additional spread that kills someone.  Spin the wheel.

[MrsKC08]

2 hours ago, oracer said:

You should not be allowed on a cruise ship UNTIL you have been tested and UNTIL you have proof of having taken the vaccine.   Also cruise ships should not be allowed to port unless they have a private island and all workers on that island have the same standards.   I can not see going to an island (Caribbean) unless they have the same standards, even escorted excursions.

 

I think the Barbados cruise ship showed that testing alone doesn't work.

That didn't age well for you...

If you don't feel safe cruising with people who won't vaccinate for Covid, then don't cruise. It is that simple. I promise there will be far more people who won't get the vaccine, especially anytime soon than those that will get it.

41 minutes ago, hoops71 said:

I don't understand.  Why is proof of vaccination (once widely available) so shocking or outrageous?  We require this proof in schools for mumps, measles, etc.  I won't choose to live in fear either.  But why is this public health requirement so abhorrent?

Here is the thing. This is a virus, not a disease. Not to mention that many people get the flu vaccine that has been in production for years...and still get the flu. Matter of fact, the ONE time I got flu, I had received the vaccine. Putting Covid in the same category as Mumps/Measles is ludacris. 

 

I cannot understand why anyone would jump at taking one of these rushed vaccines. This has not been properly vetted or tested to know what any long term affects are of receiving the vaccine. The flu has been around for decades, we have a vaccine for it...and you can still get the flu because they don't know the full makeup of what it is...not to mention in mutates from season to season.

 

This virus is like many other viruses. It affects everyone in a different way. If you are immunocompromised, of course you are going to have it worse than someone who is healthier. I've had friends, family and coworkers have this virus. Out of over 20 people I know who had it, only one needed medical intervention. The rest have felt worse in their life than when they had it. My own husband tested negative for Covid after being sick with a fever for 3 days. After OTC meds weren't helping, we went to the doctor and was diagnosed with bronchitis and given antibiotics, steroids and cough medicine. After still not getting better, had xrays and retested for Covid (10 days after the first negative result). Was diagnosed that time with pneumonia and given antibiotics specific for phenomena. Our doctor didn't want to test again, and was 100% sure that it wasn't covid but was required to test for liability reasons. We were told that if we didn't hear anything within 2 days to assume the test was negative. ONE WEEK LATER we get a call that the test was in fact positive and to stop the antibiotics and quarantine for 3 days (10 days after the test was administered). The doctor even said she didn't believe the positive test. I NEVER HAD THE FIRST SYMPTOM! Not even a cough or slight fever. My husband continued on with his antibiotics because he was feeling 100 times better! We have been harassed with phone calls from the local health department trying to do contract tracing, which is a joke because there is NO WAY to know where anyone picked up anything! Needless to say, we have not answered any of their calls or messages.

 

Again...this is a virus, and although it is real, it is NOT going anywhere. It is time to get the cruise ships back out running again, and if you are worried about catching the virus, choose a different type of vacation. You can easily pick up this thing at your local grocery store, restaurant, or countless other places.

[Capitan Obvious]

2 hours ago, oracer said:

Nope, not the same on grocery stores.   In our state, looks like 25% capacity for these essential services will go into effect.  All of the other places yes for airports and transportation services should be limited.  Unfortunately, the spread has gotten worse and I am like a lot of people, wanting to go on a vacation and especially on a cruise ship, but the Barbados incident showed even having less than 250 people is not safe.   

 

I am not having Thanksgiving this year with the kids and relatives.  Just trying to be cautious and really making it sad.   Not going to be a safe Xmas I fear as well.   I am hoping the news of full vaccinations are available my mid-summer, then we can start to do some of those things.   Once I have the anti-bodies, then I will feel much more safe.

 

All good until you realize that "feeling safe" is not the same as "being safe". If you want to rely on science, then you have to leave your feelz out of it.

 

And one incident does NOT show "even having less than 250 people is not safe". All those people were tested before cruising (IOW, the virus was not a result of the cruise) .You drive on the roads and highways, right? How many accidents have to happen, how many people have to be injured or killed on the roads before you stay home and stay off the roads (you know, until they are "safe") like you're avoiding a cruise ship? 

 

Science Question: Of all of the confirmed cases of COVID so far, how many were contracted ON a cruise ship?

 

And why would the news of the availability of a vaccine make a difference to you? For one, Dr Fauci says we will still need to wear masks and social distance even with a vaccine (something he knows that we don't?), and second, a 90% effective vaccine is still ineffective 10% of the time. Is one in ten a risk worth taking?

[Capitan Obvious]

6 minutes ago, MrsKC08 said:

You can easily pick up this thing at your local grocery store, restaurant, or countless other places.

 

The fact that there haven't been any cruises since March, coupled with the fact that thousands of new cases are identified each day only proves that you are 100% correct.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Capitan Obvious

[hoops71]

Just so you know.  Measles is a virus. Mumps is a virus.  So is Polio.  

 

As far as rushed vaccines,  I won't be first in line either until proven effective and safe.  But have no problem with schools or cruises requiring them once proven to be so.

 

 

[oteixeira]

I just want to touch a bit on the comment that we can't know this vaccine is safe because it is rushed.  This is being pushed hard in the media it seems.  Please do your own research, but here is why I am OK with getting the vaccine.

 

Phase 3 (Final phase before approval):  
Normal drug trial, average participant level:  3,000 (can be as low as 100)

Pfizer trial:  43,500 
Moderna trail:  30,000

 

Think about this, we are at over 10x the number needed to get your heart medicine, your statin, your BP meds, your Alzheimer's meds approved.  10x..... 

 

Please tell me again how the companies are rushing or cutting corners in Phase 3 of these trials.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by oteixeira

[BirdTravels]

1 hour ago, oracer said:

I say there are 244, 598 reason why a vaccination would be a logical step.   No one made me GOD (and sure not even remotely qualified), I am trying to put reasoning into options to start cruising again.

You seem to be making decisions for everyone. It will be years before the majority of the world is vaccinated. It will be a year before vaccine is available for US citizens. So, your decision is that we need to wait for everyone will delay cruising for years. Plain and simple. 

[beerman2]

5 hours ago, ColeThornton said:

 

 

Some folks have quite a few elderly in their families who have so-called underlying conditions that make them vulnerable.   They know what is best for their family situation.  If that's what they chose then so be it.

92 y/o FIL lives in independent living complex. Kids, grandkids, great-grands are what keeps him going. Family split on Holidays, but ask him HE'S going somewhere ( youngest daughters out of town). We are taking him because that's what HE wants.

 

 

[yankees111]

Cruising will not resume until a majority of Americans have been vaccinated. Cruise lines will not allow you onboard their ship without proof of immunization. If you do not want to be vaccinated that is your choice but then no cruise for you. Plain and simple indeed.

Edited November 16, 2020 by yankees111

[hamrag]

4 hours ago, MrsKC08 said:

....If you don't feel safe cruising with people who won't vaccinate for Covid, then don't cruise. It is that simple. I promise there will be far more people who won't get the vaccine, especially anytime soon than those that will get it....

 

And in one loooooong diatribe, there is no way I am quoting all of it, we are reminded why (oh why) both the USofA and the UK COVID-19 numbers are reaching for the sky....

[tallnthensome]

1 hour ago, yankees111 said:

Cruising will not resume until a majority of Americans have been vaccinated. Cruise lines will not allow you onboard their ship without proof of immunization. If you do not want to be vaccinated that is your choice but then no cruise for you. Plain and simple indeed.

This is exactly how it will be and should be. No proof of vaccination,  no cruise for you. If you’re too much of a scared bi+ch and afraid of needles then you stay home. I highly doubt the cruise lines will want anyone on board without the vaccination. It will only take one anti vaccinator to cancel a cruise a ruin it for everyone and cost the cruise lines millions of dollars if they have to turn around. They will not want these people on the ship if the vaccine is available ......

[tallnthensome]

6 hours ago, Cruising Chuck said:

Thank God no one died and left you as God.  GTFOH......proof of a vaccine.  You don't feel safe, dont cruise.....SMDH.  Some people.  

I have news for you....it’s you that won’t be wanted or welcomed by the cruise lines. You’ll be sitting home,  Charles. 

[Capitan Obvious]

10 minutes ago, tallnthensome said:

This is exactly how it will be and should be. No proof of vaccination,  no cruise for you. If you’re too much of a scared bi+ch and afraid of needles then you stay home. I highly doubt the cruise lines will want anyone on board without the vaccination. It will only take one anti vaccinator to cancel a cruise a ruin it for everyone and cost the cruise lines millions of dollars if they have to turn around. They will not want these people on the ship if the vaccine is available ......

 

Not sure how "one anti vaccinator" is going to affect anything.

 

Let's say you vaccinate all 2,000 people on the ship. With a 90% effective vaccine, that leaves you with 200 people (far more than "one") where the vaccine is NOT effective. What then?

[tallnthensome]

8 minutes ago, Capitan Obvious said:

 

Not sure how "one anti vaccinator" is going to affect anything.

 

Let's say you vaccinate all 2,000 people on the ship. With a 90% effective vaccine, that leaves you with 200 people (far more than "one") where the vaccine is NOT effective. What then?

Well , with Moderna’s vaccine 95% effective why would NCL even think of allowing an anti vaccinator aboard? You think they’ll risk millions and more negative press by letting those select few aboard over a few measly thousand dollars in profits versus possible millions of dollars in losses? It just takes one case. The lines won’t take any chances if the vaccine is readily available. They won’t accept whiners and excuses. Its their business, not ours. One anti then turns into two , then four, then 8 ..... zero tolerance or excuses will be the rule. Too much at risk to have the crybabies set it all back .....

Edited November 17, 2020 by tallnthensome

[Travelicious]

1 hour ago, hamrag said:

 

And in one loooooong diatribe, there is no way I am quoting all of it, we are reminded why (oh why) both the USofA and the UK COVID-19 numbers are reaching for the sky....

And perhaps this section explains it even more thoroughly:  "We have been harassed with phone calls from the local health department trying to do contract tracing, which is a joke because there is NO WAY to know where anyone picked up anything! Needless to say, we have not answered any of their calls or messages."