New vaccine

[ace2542]

6 minutes ago, cruisenewbie1976 said:

I've never quoted anything about herd immunity being reached at 70%.

And I would argue that these people aren't weak minded. I was referring to NHS staff, on the front line, seeing the effects of covid first hand and still refusing to take the vaccine 

To just brush them off as weak minded and in the minority is very naive. 

But hopefully, as the vaccine is rolled out and people see that there are no ill effects, hopefully that will change. 

As I've said, I'll take it as and when it's offered. My partner and my family are happy to have it too. But I'm not sure we do anyone any favours by dismissing the concerns of those reluctant to take it. 

Then those NHS staff should probably be sacked. Lets see how many of them are willing to leave their careers behind forever and be unemployable and in debt. Carrots and Sticks like that are how we will get to where we need to be with vaccination levels.

[bobstheboy]

6 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

I struggle to see how the vaccines will get us back to normal.  They won't be 100% effective, far from it imo and thus we are likely to end up with the same situation we have with Flu.   Regular flu shots for those that want them.    There is still no definitive data that the vaccines will stop spread.  We already know that people who have Flu vaccines can still transmit Flu and kids who have been fully vaccinated have still spread Mumps.  There is still a long way to go.

 

 

You make an important point and it's even worse than a few thousand trial participants.   We're talking about a virus which 86% of cases have no symptoms.  How can you actually test the vaccines unless you deliberately infect people with Covid to test whether the vaccine worked??

If you do your research you'll find that very few trials have done this.

 

Here's an important article about the Pfizer vaccine but it applies to all imo:

 

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/11/26/peter-doshi-pfizer-and-modernas-95-effective-vaccines-lets-be-cautious-and-first-see-the-full-data/

 

"In the United States, all eyes are on Pfizer and Moderna. The topline efficacy results from their experimental covid-19 vaccine trials are astounding at first glance. Pfizer says it recorded 170 covid-19 cases (in 44,000 volunteers), with a remarkable split: 162 in the placebo group versus 8 in the vaccine group. Meanwhile Moderna says 95 of 30,000 volunteers in its ongoing trial got covid-19: 90 on placebo versus 5 receiving the vaccine, leading both companies to claim around 95% efficacy.

Let’s put this in perspective. First, a relative risk reduction is being reported, not absolute risk reduction, which appears to be less than 1%. Second, these results refer to the trials’ primary endpoint of covid-19 of essentially any severity, and importantly not the vaccine’s ability to save lives, nor the ability to prevent infection, nor the efficacy in important subgroups (e.g. frail elderly). Those still remain unknown. Third, these results reflect a time point relatively soon after vaccination, and we know nothing about vaccine performance at 3, 6, or 12 months, so cannot compare these efficacy numbers against other vaccines like influenza vaccines (which are judged over a season). Fourth, children, adolescents, and immunocompromised individuals were largely excluded from the trials, so we still lack any data on these important populations."

 

Just look those numbers above.  It's one thing to wax lyrical about the trial using 44,000 participants but look how few of those actually got Covid.  Only 175 of them.    The article also highlights a worrying number of people with side effects, some class 3 myalgia, class 3 fatigue and class 3 headaches (Class 3 adverse events are considered severe, defined as preventing daily activity).

 

I think it's true to say that many people consider it lunacy to authorise and release any of these vaccines before they have completed due process.  When you're talking about vaccinating BILLIONS of people worldwide even a small rate of serious side effects start to impact a lot of people.  

 

We've been here before of course with the Swine Flu (cough) "pandemic" of 2004.  That too was vastly over-hyped with tales of doom and gloom that didn't happen and vaccines were similarly rushed out in response.   NHS staff were pressured into taking the vaccines and the results appear to have harmed a great deal of people.

 

Read here:

 

These NHS Staff Were Told The Swine Flu Vaccine Was Safe, And Now They're Suffering The Consequences

https://www.buzzfeed.com/shaunlintern/these-nhs-staff-were-told-the-swine-flu-vaccine-was-safe

 

Ministers lose fight to stop payouts over swine flu jab narcolepsy cases

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/feb/09/ministers-lose-fight-to-stop-payouts-in-swine-flu-jab-narcolepsy-cases

 

Don't  waste your time trying to influence us with your anti vax views. Join up with Piers Corbyn and his cronies, if you haven't already.

 

Vaccine  - bring it on.

[kalos]

Why do anti vaxxers  Have to write war and peace and copy & paste half of Google 

 

Would it not be better to post the truth ,which is they are scared of injections 

and for some weird reason they don't want you to have one .

Which has no health risk to them whatsoever even if you do have one .

Just saying ...

[jeanlyon]

I find the Ignored Users option quite useful?  Go to your acount and you can add people.  It really does shorten the topic!!🤣

[ace2542]

31 minutes ago, zap99 said:

The past few weeks I have had Jabs to prevent flu , shingles and pain at the dentist. Questions I didn't ask were what brand ?, What promises of no side effects. What efficacy rate. My main criteria were. Sharp needles and my eyes closed.

To be honest they have to my knowledge publicly come out with the percentage effectiveness of these Flu vaccines have they? At least not that I have ever seen. I am seriously considering going privately to get my vaccine I am in the lowest group 11 so it could be some time. If I go private surely I get to choose? And I would chose Moderna as it is 1/3 more effective?

[ace2542]

5 minutes ago, kalos said:

Why do anti vaxxers  Have to write war and peace and copy & paste half of Google 

 

Would it not be better to post the truth ,which is they are scared of injections 

and for some weird reason they don't want you to have one .

Which has no health risk to them whatsoever even if you do have one .

Just saying ...

Perhaps Know The Score should be banned? His postings are damaging cause of cruising aren't they? And we will never turn to him our side.

[jeanlyon]

I just don't think you will be able to go privately.  They have enough problems getting enough vaccine for those who want it.

[zap99]

6 minutes ago, bobstheboy said:

Don't  waste your time trying to influence us with your anti vax views. Join up with Piers Corbyn and his cronies, if you haven't already.

 

Vaccine  - bring it on.

Agree. I will be in the queue to be Jabbed. If somebody won't, I am not bothered, or quite honestly not really interested in their reasons.

They may find that there are consequences to their choice.

[jaydee6969]

1 hour ago, cruisenewbie1976 said:

 But I totally understand people being reluctant to have it. We're only taking tens of thousands of people in the trials. And the long term outcome is unknown! 

 

There are far more people that have had the vaccine in trials for these covid vaccines for stage 3 than happens for normal drug trials.  

 

Various professors over the last week have mentioned that usually only 3000 to 4000 is normal for stage 3.

 

Far more money has been available upfront to recruit and compensate all these trial participants, and recruit increased staff to carry out these trials.

[zap99]

10 minutes ago, kalos said:

Why do anti vaxxers  Have to write war and peace and copy & paste half of Google 

 

Would it not be better to post the truth ,which is they are scared of injections 

and for some weird reason they don't want you to have one .

Which has no health risk to them whatsoever even if you do have one .

Just saying ...

When I had my flu jab I asked for a big plaster. Why she asked. How can I tell DW it really hurt if I haven't got a plaster. Sorry Ladies , but research has shown that jabs hurt 87.26% of men, but only 17.24% of Ladies. I will still have it, but I bet I get a bigger plaster than normal🤔.

[Snow Hill]

6 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

I just don't think you will be able to go privately.  They have enough problems getting enough vaccine for those who want it.

The intention is it won’t be available privately 

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine_uk_5fad23dcc5b6d647a39c64e1

[terrierjohn]

55 minutes ago, pete14 said:

Throughout all levels of trials in many countries, some selected because they have high infection rates, over all the producers there are hundreds of thousands of people who have been injected with a vaccine, not tens of thousands. The fact they have even reached level 3, never mind being authorised for mass use, is testimony to their safety. Even if the vaccines don’t work, or maybe only offer temporary protection, trials have shown they are safe. 

I agree, some clown on here suggested that with the Oxford vaccine you would only get 70% immunity, whereas 70%, at least, get 100% immunity but possibly 30% dont get any. I would take my chances with that, it's a far better bet than the lottery.

[pete14]

25 minutes ago, cruisenewbie1976 said:

I've never quoted anything about herd immunity being reached at 70%.

And I would argue that these people aren't weak minded. I was referring to NHS staff, on the front line, seeing the effects of covid first hand and still refusing to take the vaccine 

To just brush them off as weak minded and in the minority is very naive. 

But hopefully, as the vaccine is rolled out and people see that there are no ill effects, hopefully that will change. 

As I've said, I'll take it as and when it's offered. My partner and my family are happy to have it too. But I'm not sure we do anyone any favours by dismissing the concerns of those reluctant to take it. 

Sorry if you think my post was directed at you, only the Devil’s advocate bit which I think I qualified as something many of us do on all sorts of topics. The 70% herd immunity level is widely quoted but I am happy to set the record straight and say that you did not quote it.
 

The weak minded people I was referring to are the anti vaxxers, whose illegal demonstration in London yesterday was all over the news media, and others of their ilk. I am not suggesting anybody with such extreme views would be posting on here, certainly not yourself, but they demonstrably exist and their selfishness may undermine the efforts of the huge majority who are doing all they can to keep themselves and others safe by obeying the guidelines, even if they do not necessarily agree with them all. 

 

 

[cruisenewbie1976]

1 minute ago, pete14 said:

Sorry if you think my post was directed at you, only the Devil’s advocate bit which I think I qualified as something many of us do on all sorts of topics. The 70% herd immunity level is widely quoted but I am happy to set the record straight and say that you did not quote it.
 

The weak minded people I was referring to are the anti vaxxers, whose illegal demonstration in London yesterday was all over the news media, and others of their ilk. I am not suggesting anybody with such extreme views would be posting on here, certainly not yourself, but they demonstrably exist and their selfishness may undermine the efforts of the huge majority who are doing all they can to keep themselves and others safe by obeying the guidelines, even if they do not necessarily agree with them all. 

 

 

Totally agree on that! I can't help but think a lot of these people do it just for the attention that they know they'll get from it. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by cruisenewbie1976
Addition

[zap99]

16 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

To be honest they have to my knowledge publicly come out with the percentage effectiveness of these Flu vaccines have they? At least not that I have ever seen. I am seriously considering going privately to get my vaccine I am in the lowest group 11 so it could be some time. If I go private surely I get to choose? And I would chose Moderna as it is 1/3 more effective?

I am not cleverer enough to know, so if I can pay privately to choose which one, I'll pay extra and have all of them. If you are saying Moderna is best I'll have two, but I'f Moderna are so good, why are Ferrari not in the top ten on the grid today?.🤔.

 

Confused of Woking.

[Son of Anarchy]

8 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I agree, some clown on here suggested that with the Oxford vaccine you would only get 70% immunity, whereas 70%, at least, get 100% immunity but possibly 30% dont get any. I would take my chances with that, it's a far better bet than the lottery.

Had an email from National Lottery telling me that I had won a prize.  Maybe tomorrow I'll get an email from the NHS telling me I've got to go and have a jab? 😂

[jeanlyon]

My flu vaccination was done so well, I actually didn't feel a thing.  However, my arm ached for a week afterwards, but that's OK.  My husband's arm didn't hurt at all.  Hmmmph.

 

All those people demonstrating in London, no masks, all together.  Some people just don't get it do they.  Maybe they need a relative or friend to die and that would change their mind.

[zap99]

5 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

My flu vaccination was done so well, I actually didn't feel a thing.  However, my arm ached for a week afterwards, but that's OK.  My husband's arm didn't hurt at all.  Hmmmph.

 

All those people demonstrating in London, no masks, all together.  Some people just don't get it do they.  Maybe they need a relative or friend to die and that would change their mind.

Jean. Why would his arm hurt, it they stuck the needle in You. Was it a very long needle, or have I misunderstood, as normal?🤣

[jeanlyon]

6 minutes ago, zap99 said:

Jean. Why would his arm hurt, it they stuck the needle in You. Was it a very long needle, or have I misunderstood, as normal?🤣

As normal, or my sentence wasn't clear.  I had my jab first and then he had his.  I was waiting for him to moan that his arm hurt, but it didn't!!

[zap99]

 

7 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

As normal, or my sentence wasn't clear.  I had my jab first and then he had his.  I was waiting for him to moan that his arm hurt, but it didn't!!

I did think that, I was just being silly and jumped in before  Kalos🤣

[nosapphire]

1 hour ago, pete14 said:

Throughout all levels of trials in many countries, some selected because they have high infection rates, over all the producers there are hundreds of thousands of people who have been injected with a vaccine, not tens of thousands. The fact they have even reached level 3, never mind being authorised for mass use, is testimony to their safety. Even if the vaccines don’t work, or maybe only offer temporary protection, trials have shown they are safe. 

What is worrying me is that there are several job adverts for NHS vaccinators which specify "no experience necessary".

I'll be looking very, very carefully to make sure whoever vaccinates me has not closed their eyes and started muttering "one, two, three.. and GO".

[ace2542]

14 minutes ago, nosapphire said:

What is worrying me is that there are several job adverts for NHS vaccinators which specify "no experience necessary".

I'll be looking very, very carefully to make sure whoever vaccinates me has not closed their eyes and started muttering "one, two, three.. and GO".

Maybe that is just for the administration situation? Or the job adverts could be fakes?

[ace2542]

55 minutes ago, zap99 said:

I am not cleverer enough to know, so if I can pay privately to choose which one, I'll pay extra and have all of them. If you are saying Moderna is best I'll have two, but I'f Moderna are so good, why are Ferrari not in the top ten on the grid today?.🤔.

 

Confused of Woking.

Because they don't have the car, or the driver. Put it another they don't have the money to get those things.

[ace2542]

1 hour ago, Snow Hill said:

The intention is it won’t be available privately 

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine_uk_5fad23dcc5b6d647a39c64e1

Then we had better hope that cruise lines don't reject any vaccines. Because it is still entirely possible they may not vaccinate the under 50 group at all. And what will they do if the Oxford vaccine is not approved? I notice in the media 11 groupings have been reduced to 9.

Edited November 29, 2020 by ace2542

[pete14]

17 minutes ago, nosapphire said:

What is worrying me is that there are several job adverts for NHS vaccinators which specify "no experience necessary".

I'll be looking very, very carefully to make sure whoever vaccinates me has not closed their eyes and started muttering "one, two, three.. and GO".

It can’t be that difficult.

”Give me your arm”

”You’ll only feel a little *****”

Jab arm with ready loaded needle

”Next”

”Give me .....