More details on the CDC mandate and return to sailing

[Earthworm Jim]

23 hours ago, tinleypark andy said:

Good point, because no vaccine is 100% effective. 90-95% sounds great to us, but the CDC sees 90-95% as a 5-10% chance someone could be affected on the cruise.

 

That would only be true if there was a 100% chance of an unvaccinated person being affected on the cruise. The vaccine would (theoretically) make you 5 to 10% as likely as an unvaccinated person to catch Covid, not have a 5 to 10% chance of catching Covid.

[Earthworm Jim]

17 hours ago, IRMO12HD said:

For example, the article states :"The Framework for Conditional Sailing Order states that in case of a positive COVID-19 case, a cruise line must first notify passengers and crew, and then immediately end the future. It also may be forced to cancel future voyages as directed by the CDC. The ship also most return to the U.S. port of embarkation."

 

 

What the heck did the article author mean by "immediately end the future"? Seems a big ask.

[KroozNut]

Just now, Earthworm Jim said:

 

What the heck did the article author mean by "immediately end the future"? Seems a big ask.

 

I was wondering the same thing.. 🤔

[crewsweeper]

These things are written by bureaucrats.  Bureaucrats live by making rules to cover everything that could possibly happen.  That's why regulations like the tax code and ACA are thousands of pages long and require dozens of lawyers and others to interrupt.

 

Commonsensically, even Noro can't be 100% eradicated by cleanup.  Coronavirus, by scientific studies, get transmitted by human to human contact via breathing.  Any virus particles landing on surfaces soon disappear.  You isolate/quarantine the ill from others during a cruise and then clean the ship just like a Noro outbreak.  

[jfunk138]

It seems like the current public health strategy is simply scapegoating.  When you mandate masks and the virus still spreads:  blame the people.  When you shutdown bars and restaurants and the virus still spreads:  blame the people.  People are starting to wake up though.  People who "follow the rules" are still getting Covid.  Even people that have never left their house are getting Covid.  Who is left for public health authorities to blame?  Cruiselines!  They aren't US companies and are staffed by non-US citizens and make such a wonderful scapegoat.

 

When will the public health authorities finally admit that they really have no control over this virus?  Those cruiseships with "outbreaks" in March?  The Grand Princess had 103 cases total during and after the sailing and they tested everyone!  My town is racking up that many PER DAY but that's only the people actually getting tested.  

[Chyna3032]

Well, at least it appears that you won't be stuck on a ship indefinitely if nothing else...That's all I got!

[RiotAct]

4 hours ago, jfunk138 said:

It seems like the current public health strategy is simply scapegoating.  When you mandate masks and the virus still spreads:  blame the people.  When you shutdown bars and restaurants and the virus still spreads:  blame the people.  People are starting to wake up though.  People who "follow the rules" are still getting Covid.  Even people that have never left their house are getting Covid.  Who is left for public health authorities to blame?  Cruiselines!  They aren't US companies and are staffed by non-US citizens and make such a wonderful scapegoat.

 

When will the public health authorities finally admit that they really have no control over this virus?  Those cruiseships with "outbreaks" in March?  The Grand Princess had 103 cases total during and after the sailing and they tested everyone!  My town is racking up that many PER DAY but that's only the people actually getting tested.  

YES!   Can’t rep you enough for this.

[BlerkOne]

4 hours ago, jfunk138 said:

It seems like the current public health strategy is simply scapegoating.  When you mandate masks and the virus still spreads:  blame the people.  When you shutdown bars and restaurants and the virus still spreads:  blame the people.  People are starting to wake up though.  People who "follow the rules" are still getting Covid.  Even people that have never left their house are getting Covid.  Who is left for public health authorities to blame?  Cruiselines!  They aren't US companies and are staffed by non-US citizens and make such a wonderful scapegoat.

 

When will the public health authorities finally admit that they really have no control over this virus?  Those cruiseships with "outbreaks" in March?  The Grand Princess had 103 cases total during and after the sailing and they tested everyone!  My town is racking up that many PER DAY but that's only the people actually getting tested.  

Yes, people who follow rules are still getting Covid because of the Me Me Me people who don't. Shut down bars and the Me Me Me people rent warehouses for parties. IF someone who doesn't leave the house gets Covid, it is because someone delivered it to them.

 

Who to blame? The Me Me Me rule breakers. It isn't rocket science.

 

Cruise lines were the scapegoat when politicians wouldn't accept responsibility in an election year, but that is over.

[tinleypark andy]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

 

 

We have yet to see the spike that Thanksgiving is surely bringing, and Christmas will. FACT

Forgot New years Eve parties.

[BlerkOne]

28 minutes ago, tinleypark andy said:

Forgot New years Eve parties.

True. Might as well just bridge them all together into one big celebration of covid. Christmas parties are already beginning.

[jimbo5544]

4 hours ago, evandbob said:

Let's assume that the CDC decided to let cruise ships continue with minimal intervention or guidelines.  Think of how many folks would have contracted this virus while they traveled to, traveled on, and then traveled home from cruises without social distancing, masks, or avoidance of crowded indoor spaces. Could you imagine how many extra deaths would result from a hands off approach?  How many people who never cruised would have been affected after those cruisers returned home?

 

When the virus spread was beginning in the USA, mostly in the NY area, our Florida Gov ridiculed their efforts and early mistakes. He then imposed travel restrictions and quarantines on New Yorkers coming to Florida, boasting that they were the problem in Florida..He has since maintained a mostly hands off approach, and we recently passed one MILLION cases (NY now has 666,650 cases) and claims the worst mistake was forcing Florida schools to close.

 

Allowing cruise ships to become super spreaders would have been disastrous.

Maybe we can ALSO go back and stop the Titanic....imagine that making worse case Go back in time scenarios adds to ones arguement.  Imagine that there is simply more to the discussion than shutting down the country PTO solve the problem. I notice in you imagine make believe discussion you did not mention deaths.  Imagine the governor of New York not giving orders to put people stick with the virus in nursing and assisted living, basically giving death sentences....imagine that ...   imagine if you did not bring politics in the discussion, but only do so when it meets your argument. One last question, did cruise ships become super spreaders, no.  Imagine everyone here posted on returning to sea instead or harping on the negatives...NOW there is an imagine. 

[jfunk138]

48 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Yes, people who follow rules are still getting Covid because of the Me Me Me people who don't. Shut down bars and the Me Me Me people rent warehouses for parties. IF someone who doesn't leave the house gets Covid, it is because someone delivered it to them.

 

Who to blame? The Me Me Me rule breakers. It isn't rocket science.

 

Cruise lines were the scapegoat when politicians wouldn't accept responsibility in an election year, but that is over.

Oh a new scapegoat: the "me me me" people...  <rolleyes>
 

But never an admission that the interventions simply aren't working.

 

[jimbo5544]

5 hours ago, jfunk138 said:

It seems like the current public health strategy is simply scapegoating.  When you mandate masks and the virus still spreads:  blame the people.  When you shutdown bars and restaurants and the virus still spreads:  blame the people.  People are starting to wake up though.  People who "follow the rules" are still getting Covid.  Even people that have never left their house are getting Covid.  Who is left for public health authorities to blame?  Cruiselines!  They aren't US companies and are staffed by non-US citizens and make such a wonderful scapegoat.

 

When will the public health authorities finally admit that they really have no control over this virus?  Those cruiseships with "outbreaks" in March?  The Grand Princess had 103 cases total during and after the sailing and they tested everyone!  My town is racking up that many PER DAY but that's only the people actually getting tested.  

Great post

[pe4all]

5 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

Oh a new scapegoat: the "me me me" people...  <rolleyes>
 

But never an admission that the interventions simply aren't working.

 

They worked in NY when people were "following the rules."  However, now you have this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/02/nyregion/coronavirus-party-brookhaven-long-island.html

[BlerkOne]

34 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

Oh a new scapegoat: the "me me me" people...  <rolleyes>
 

But never an admission that the interventions simply aren't working.

 

The interventions do work - even Fox News admits it. The deniers need to stop playing ostrich.

 

Bringing up NY in the spring over and over is so dated and ancient history. NY was ground zero for the virus coming in from Europe before they knew what hit them and the Feds were lying and denying.

 

Slowing down the virus IS the whole point. Buy time and save lives while vaccines and treatments are developed and keeping hospitals from overflowing. Sad is how some people don't care about the lives of others as long as they can cruise.

[momof3cruisers]

On 12/1/2020 at 4:00 PM, skridge said:

I was wrong.  I thought we would be back on cruise ships by December.  I guess I didn't realize how many would ignore some simple basic instructions and cause the pandemic to explode the way it has.  Sigh.

What basic instructions? I live in MN. Over the entire summer, I saw a total of three people not wearing a mask and one of them was on oxygen. Our local stores have expanded their pick up areas by 400% because of so many people ordering online. My son works retail and on Black Friday their store was dead. No community events happened, the vast majority of churches are doing online only services, we went to a wedding that had a very strict enforcement of the rules, my best friend went to a wedding with the same rule set up, everyone followed them. BUT our numbers are still going up. Minnesotans are a very compliant group of people as a whole. There is a farmer mentality of whatever has to be done is just the way it is. And yet, even with a very large majority following the rules, our numbers are increasing. 

[chengkp75]

57 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Nobody followed the rules in New York.

Having a son and daughter-in-law living in Brooklyn, I can say this is not correct.  But, I will let the kool-aid drinkers who want to cruise no matter what to this discussion.

[skridge]

1 hour ago, jimbo5544 said:

Nobody followed the rules in New York.

If you follow Jim Gaffigan he and his family seem to be following the rules.  I guess that makes you wrong again.  

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, skridge said:

If you follow Jim Gaffigan he and his family seem to be following the rules.  I guess that makes you wrong again.  

Half bit comedians do not have a clue.  I have family that lives in New York.  I have seen the mess first hand, both in the city and in Long Island.  They follow their own rules.  The list is long.  I wish I was wrong but am not, been a while since I was.  Next example come prepared with facts.  I will give you a couple of hints.  Look at the videos from April.  Look at who is wearing masks and who is not. Look at the video of when the hospital ship sailed into the pier at the Hudson.  If you need more I can get you NYPD video of subways, intersections, restaurants, schools universities, bars, etc.  if you need more go to little league games, midget football games, playgrounds.  Go look at after school activities, grocery stores, strip malls. Go look at coffee shops, at libraries and gas stations.  Do all that and I will give you the next lesson.  

Edited December 3, 2020 by jimbo5544

[Host Carolyn]

Most of this is bickering, arguing stats that have nothing to do with cruising etc. Off topic, political ........maybe overnight cool down will help.