Immunity Passports: Corona Virus Seal

[ColeThornton]

Edited:  I'm dumb.   🙂

Edited December 15, 2020 by ColeThornton

[Aplmac]

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, SelectSys said:

 

To be worth anything, it will need to tie back to some kind of database for look up. 

 

What is interesting at least in the US is that there is a privacy law that prohibits the general disclosure of health information.  Maybe the card will help in this matter.

Ahhh so we get back to HIPAA!  I keep explaining that HIPAA does not prohibit any person from voluntarily disclosing or releasing their health information.  The power generally lies with the individual.  There is no problem creating a data base but under current law the disclosure would generally be up to each person (this is how the California vaccine data base CAIR2 works.  Also keep in mind that HIPAA was created by Congress and can be changed by Congress.

 

Hank

[SelectSys]

15 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Ahhh so we get back to HIPAA!  I keep explaining that HIPAA does not prohibit any person from voluntarily disclosing or releasing their health information.  The power generally lies with the individual.  There is no problem creating a data base but under current law the disclosure would generally be up to each person (this is how the California vaccine data base CAIR2 works.  Also keep in mind that HIPAA was created by Congress and can be changed by Congress.

 

Hank

 

I understand that.   It's not a question of whether I can provide access, it is the convenience associated with this while traveling and dealing with time lags.   That's why I thought the card might help.   The logistics of this might get daunting without an easy/rapid means of disclosing the information. 

 

Perhaps this type of disclosure request will become part of the cruise contract or require even more advanced registration information to enter countries.  For example, making a disclosure part of the ETIAS visa waiver program for US residents visiting Europe.

 

 

[Hlitner]

3 hours ago, SelectSys said:

 

I understand that.   It's not a question of whether I can provide access, it is the convenience associated with this while traveling and dealing with time lags.   That's why I thought the card might help.   The logistics of this might get daunting without an easy/rapid means of disclosing the information. 

 

Perhaps this type of disclosure request will become part of the cruise contract or require even more advanced registration information to enter countries.  For example, making a disclosure part of the ETIAS visa waiver program for US residents visiting Europe.

 

 

I am not opposed to a vaccination card, paper, app, etc.  But the issue with cards and paper is that they are easy to falsify and that has already been happening in Europe where one apparently can buy paperwork verifying that they have had a negative COVID test.  Even Apps can be hacked but it is a bit more difficult, especially if it is linked to a central data base.   Your idea of making it part of the new ETIAS system makes a lot of sense, but that system is not going into effect until late 2022 (assuming there are no further delays) which will not work for 2021-22.   

 

I think one issue is that vaccination programs have already started in many countries but there is still no clear standard for some kind of vaccination verification.  Some countries, such as Japan, are very high on procedure so not having a standardized system in the next few months will likely cause some hiccups.

 

Hank

 

Hank

[SelectSys]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

I am not opposed to a vaccination card, paper, app, etc.  But the issue with cards and paper is that they are easy to falsify and that has already been happening in Europe where one apparently can buy paperwork verifying that they have had a negative COVID test...

 

I think one issue is that vaccination programs have already started in many countries but there is still no clear standard for some kind of vaccination verification.  Some countries, such as Japan, are very high on procedure so not having a standardized system in the next few months will likely cause some hiccups.

 

I think you are suggesting that like most all things COVID, it's going to be a mess for awhile...  I agree on the card fraud issue.  It would need to have the same level of security associated with passports or other forms of real ID.

[Hlitner]

19 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

But what would be the point SelectSys?

 

Can you imagine if we did this for Flu vaccines?    There are over 200 different strains of Flu of which some 130 are in categories A and B which circulate amongst humans.  Your vaccine either covers 3 or 4 of those strains and sometimes those chosen 3 or 4 strains do not match well to the actual strains circulating in a given winter season.   So what possible use would a Flu vaccination passport be if you could be vaccinated for strains that are not the ones circulating?

 

Same for Covid.  There are now many strains/mutations of Covid.  A new one hit the news today.  That will continue to happen.  Which strains/mutations do each of the vaccines cover?  I have yet to see anyone cite a single clinical source reference that tells you which strains/mutations the Pfizer vaccine covers.   If there are trains NOT covered by the vaccine then surely people are still a risk to others. 

 

Just can't see how passporting can possibly be of any use

 

I can address the new strain issue (which comes out of the UK).  I heard one expert say that there was every reason to think that the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines should work fine.  These two vaccines are based on a technology that focuses only on a protein that is attached to the virus and that protein is unchanged with the various strains.  Perhaps that is some of the genius behind this amazing mRNA technology (it is the first time it has been used in a vaccine) which does not actually use any of the virus in its development.  How the development in the UK will impact the other vaccines under development (which do not use mRNA) remains to be seen.

 

If really won't matter if you don't see what you call "passporting" to be of any use because you can take it to the bank that many (if not all) countries will adopt a policy of mandatory vaccination as part of their entry procedures.  Given the huge cost of COVID it is a "no-brainer."   Those who don't want to go along will just have to stay close to home.  

 

Hank

[Aplmac]

I have now come across a Covid-19 Vaccination certification card

as issued by the CDC - Center for Disease Control.. in America.

Y'all should be seeing more of these, as time goes by.

This particular example issued at a hospital in Alabama..

 

[Smokeyham]

7 hours ago, Aplmac said:

I have now come across a Covid-19 Vaccination certification card

as issued by the CDC - Center for Disease Control.. in America.

Y'all should be seeing more of these, as time goes by.

Thanks for sharing that.   If we already possess an International Certificate of Vaccination if they will be willing to add to that, to save having to carry two certificates.

[evandbob]

Here's an article from tech magazine cnet on this subject:

 

https://www.cnet.com/health/covid-19-vaccine-card-versus-coronavirus-immunity-passport-whats-the-difference/

[Smokeyham]

9 minutes ago, evandbob said:

Here's an article from tech magazine cnet on this subject:

 

https://www.cnet.com/health/covid-19-vaccine-card-versus-coronavirus-immunity-passport-whats-the-difference/

Thanks for posting that..... Very interesting article!

[Smokeyham]

14 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

..... If you've been vaccinated already see if you can get yourself into any of those countries that have now shut the UK out !....

I would  agree with you in the short term that proof of vaccination will not get you into a country that has banned travel from your country.   

Looking longer term, once the pandemic is under control, then I would not be surprised to see some form of proof of Covid vaccination be required similar to the current requirements for proof of yellow fever vaccination that are required by certain countries if you have been to an area where yellow fever is known to occur.   

[Capt_BJ]

a little cautionary tale wrt to adding an COVID endorsements to your passport .... I'd hold off until someone (everyone) makes it 'official'

 

Tina Sibley, a 59-year-old woman from the United Kingdom, thinks of herself as a well-traveled person. And really, she’s got the ticket stubs and passport stamps to prove it. However, as she recently learned while attempting to board a Qatar Airways flight in Thailand, some of those stamps can really get you in trouble.

 

“An excited traveler, I presented myself and my passport at Qatar airways last night to be told I couldn't fly because of the Machu Picchu stamp in my passport,” Sibley shared in a Facebook post. “I thought the guy was having a laugh. But no.”

 

Dismayed, Sibley went directly to the British Embassy in Thailand, only to be shot down once again.

“The embassy heard my plight and said that it was rubbish,” she wrote. “My passport was valid and as such, they couldn't issue a replacement. They told me to explain that to Qatar airways and if they wouldn't take me to go with another airline.”

However, back at the airport, neither Qatar nor Emirates would take her and it was back to the drawing board. All this, over a silly little novelty stamp from Machu Picchu.

It does appear that everyone in this case was confused about the validity of the souvenir stamp that likely thousands of other travelers have in their passports, too. Beyond that famed stamp that visitors can give to themselves in Machu Picchu, hardcore travelers also hunt down others like the “Checkpoint Charlie” stamp in Berlin, Germany; the Antarctic Heritage Stamp in Antarctica; and the Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch passport stamp in Wales, to add to their official collection. But, let Sibley, and page 5 of all United States passports, serve as a warning to never ever put these souvenir stamps in your official document.

On page five of each and every U.S. passport international travelers will find that “Alteration or Mutilation of Passport,” is unauthorized and “only authorized officials of the United States or of foreign countries may place stamps or make notations or additions to this passport.”

Those officials include U.S. State Department staff, U.S. Customs and Border Patrol officers, diplomatic and consular officials of foreign countries, and immigration officers at international borders. Sorry, you giving yourself a stamp at Machu Picchu simply doesn’t count.

"The Department of State advises U.S. citizens to avoid the use of novelty stamps in the U.S. passport. The Department could potentially consider novelty stamps as “damage” to the U.S. passport. We cannot comment on what passport damage or alteration might cause the Department of Homeland Security or the government of a foreign country to prevent entry at the border," a State Department official told Travel + Leisure.

However, that doesn’t mean you need to forgo getting the novelty stamps altogether. Rather than mark up your official documents pick up a souvenir stamp collecting journal to place all your memories in instead. This way, you’ll always be able to get home on time. 

As for Sibley, she did finally get an emergency passport after a bit of back and forth begging and pleading with the embassy. This time, it won’t be filled with anything but official stamps.

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, Capt_BJ said:

a little cautionary tale wrt to adding an COVID endorsements to your passport .... I'd hold off until someone (everyone) makes it 'official'

 

Tina Sibley, a 59-year-old woman from the United Kingdom, thinks of herself as a well-traveled person. And really, she’s got the ticket stubs and passport stamps to prove it. However, as she recently learned while attempting to board a Qatar Airways flight in Thailand, some of those stamps can really get you in trouble.

 

“An excited traveler, I presented myself and my passport at Qatar airways last night to be told I couldn't fly because of the Machu Picchu stamp in my passport,” Sibley shared in a Facebook post. “I thought the guy was having a laugh. But no.”

 

Dismayed, Sibley went directly to the British Embassy in Thailand, only to be shot down once again.

“The embassy heard my plight and said that it was rubbish,” she wrote. “My passport was valid and as such, they couldn't issue a replacement. They told me to explain that to Qatar airways and if they wouldn't take me to go with another airline.”

However, back at the airport, neither Qatar nor Emirates would take her and it was back to the drawing board. All this, over a silly little novelty stamp from Machu Picchu.

It does appear that everyone in this case was confused about the validity of the souvenir stamp that likely thousands of other travelers have in their passports, too. Beyond that famed stamp that visitors can give to themselves in Machu Picchu, hardcore travelers also hunt down others like the “Checkpoint Charlie” stamp in Berlin, Germany; the Antarctic Heritage Stamp in Antarctica; and the Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch passport stamp in Wales, to add to their official collection. But, let Sibley, and page 5 of all United States passports, serve as a warning to never ever put these souvenir stamps in your official document.

On page five of each and every U.S. passport international travelers will find that “Alteration or Mutilation of Passport,” is unauthorized and “only authorized officials of the United States or of foreign countries may place stamps or make notations or additions to this passport.”

Those officials include U.S. State Department staff, U.S. Customs and Border Patrol officers, diplomatic and consular officials of foreign countries, and immigration officers at international borders. Sorry, you giving yourself a stamp at Machu Picchu simply doesn’t count.

"The Department of State advises U.S. citizens to avoid the use of novelty stamps in the U.S. passport. The Department could potentially consider novelty stamps as “damage” to the U.S. passport. We cannot comment on what passport damage or alteration might cause the Department of Homeland Security or the government of a foreign country to prevent entry at the border," a State Department official told Travel + Leisure.

However, that doesn’t mean you need to forgo getting the novelty stamps altogether. Rather than mark up your official documents pick up a souvenir stamp collecting journal to place all your memories in instead. This way, you’ll always be able to get home on time. 

As for Sibley, she did finally get an emergency passport after a bit of back and forth begging and pleading with the embassy. This time, it won’t be filled with anything but official stamps.

 

I use an expired passport for souvenir stamps. For one thing I don't want to waste pages and have to prematurely get a new passport but it is weird that border officials would care so much😳

[JRG]

On 12/15/2020 at 2:24 PM, SelectSys said:

I think you are suggesting that like most all things COVID, it's going to be a mess for awhile...  I agree on the card fraud issue.  It would need to have the same level of security associated with passports or other forms of real ID.

 

I was watching  Bloomberg and saw the Smartphone APP that is under development to work with your passport and validate immunizations.  

 

This makes sense for those who travel, whether it be business or leisure related.   I can see this working better than anything else right now.

Edited December 30, 2020 by JRG
spelling

[Aplmac]

American Airlines

will make its mobile health passport service available

to all customers entering the U.S. beginning Jan. 23.

 

Read more here...

 

https://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-News/Airline-News/American-easing-US-reentry-for-all-flyers

[cruise47]

Have anyone heard about a,New Vaccine Passport being developed in Denmark?

It will show that you have been vaccinated for COVID-19 (dates and the type of vaccine).

 

 

[Hlitner]

On 2/4/2021 at 6:33 AM, cruise47 said:

Have anyone heard about a,New Vaccine Passport being developed in Denmark?

It will show that you have been vaccinated for COVID-19 (dates and the type of vaccine).

 

 

Yeah, we read about it.  There are actually quite a few different countries and organizations (such as some airlines) talking about the development of a "Vaccine Passport."  Ideally an international organization such as WHO should establish an International document and/or standard, but given the history of WHO we can expect them to wait many months or years to tackle a challenge.  The airlines through IATA may well be the one's to quickly adopt their own standard.  The problem for we travelers is it will take research to learn what is acceptable and not acceptable to travel to each and every country.  

 

Hank

[ilikeanswers]

This covers a lot of the issues that still need negotiating for a restart of travel. At the end they discuss vaccine passports:

 

What vaccines mean for the return of travel