CarnivalShips480 Posted December 21, 2022 #126 Share Posted December 21, 2022 6 minutes ago, Ombud said: Costa Magica -> laid up cannot find a return date Costa Serena -> 'laid up until Dec 2023' Costa Deliziosa is their smallest ship so who knows?? Costa Fortuna - > no cruises past April 2023 (South America season) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnesterz Posted December 21, 2022 #127 Share Posted December 21, 2022 (edited) I believe the oldest ship of Carnival's fleets, a slab sided, (fewer moneymaking balcony cabins) style ship, now is the P&O Explorer from 1997 . It had dry dock in '17 and '20, so another coming up soon? This is possibly the third ship mentioned in the Cruise Industry News article. I'd imagine P&O would like a newer ship transferred from Costa. Edited December 21, 2022 by mtnesterz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CruisinChris Posted December 21, 2022 #128 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Actually, Carnival Sunshine (Destiny) is circa 1996 and is the oldest in the fleet. Currently sailing from Charleston. She is in tough shape. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarnivalShips480 Posted December 21, 2022 #129 Share Posted December 21, 2022 1 hour ago, CruisinChris said: Actually, Carnival Sunshine (Destiny) is circa 1996 and is the oldest in the fleet. Currently sailing from Charleston. She is in tough shape. I politely disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Ombud Posted December 21, 2022 Author #130 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Lots of recent ads for Seaborn as an expedition cruise experience so doubt the 3rd would be there 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnesterz Posted December 21, 2022 #131 Share Posted December 21, 2022 4 hours ago, CruisinChris said: Actually, Carnival Sunshine (Destiny) is circa 1996 and is the oldest in the fleet. Currently sailing from Charleston. She is in tough shape. I stand corrected on ship age, but the Destiny/Sunshine has those moneymaking balcony cabins I mentioned that can prolong a ship's value. The last of those slab-sided ships, once the Ocean Princess, then Queen of the Oceans (2000), is now in cold layup, owned by Seajets, offered for sale in the ads, but no takers as yet. I just don't see those older ships as profitable in today's market. I've read drydock maintenance expense curve on ships is exponential with age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisingrob21 Posted December 21, 2022 #132 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Grand Princess is 1998 correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Ombud Posted December 21, 2022 Author #133 Share Posted December 21, 2022 (edited) On 10/1/2022 at 3:41 PM, Ombud said: Ages of oldest still in fleet: 1996: Carnival Sunshine 1997: POAU Explorer 1998: Carnival Elation & Paradise, Grand Princess (medallion ship) 1999: HAL MS Volendam 2000: HAL MS Zaandam 2000: PO Aurora 8 minutes ago, cruisingrob21 said: Grand Princess is 1998 correct? Yes. Added to above list. But they stated 2 of the 3 to leave the fleet are Costa ships Edited December 21, 2022 by Ombud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisingrob21 Posted December 21, 2022 #134 Share Posted December 21, 2022 1 hour ago, mtnesterz said: I stand corrected on ship age, but the Destiny/Sunshine has those moneymaking balcony cabins I mentioned that can prolong a ship's value. The last of those slab-sided ships, once the Ocean Princess, then Queen of the Oceans (2000), is now in cold layup, owned by Seajets, offered for sale in the ads, but no takers as yet. I just don't see those older ships as profitable in today's market. I've read drydock maintenance expense curve on ships is exponential with age. "Money making balconies" may not be as true of a statement as it once was. With some of the premium lines now opting for "all inclusive" upgrades, some inside cabins with the promo can cost as much or more than a balcony cabin. Now obviously there is a value equation that happens there, but other than the gratuities and a small component of cost for the drinks (which I think we can all agree the cruise lines inflate the prices dramatically, just a like a restaurant would) the wifi, and any extra perk are overhead costs that the cruises generally have already paid. So while in the past, one might argue that balcony cabins subsidize the cost for inside cabins when prices are low, these all inclusive packages can change that equation. While the Zaandam and Volendam have a cult following being very uncrowded, I doubt they are very economical for a 'premium cruise line' that charges just slightly premium pricing over mainstream cruise lines. I wouldn't be surprised to see one of them go - HAL certainly had no problem finding niche buyers for the Amsterdam and Rotterdam. The grand princess could also be considered. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Ombud Posted December 22, 2022 Author #135 Share Posted December 22, 2022 (edited) # of passengers on this list: 1996: Carnival Sunshine - 3,002 pax 1997: POAU Explorer - 1998 pax 1998: Carnival Elation - 2190 pax 1998: Carnival Paradise - 2,124 pax 1998: Grand Princess - 2,590 lower berth pax / 3,100 max 1999: HAL MS Volendam - 1,432 pax 2000: HAL MS Zaandam - 1432 pax 2000: PO Aurora - 1,878 pax / 1,950 max Will it also come down to capacity?? Just wondering which, if any, of these are that 3rd ship Edited December 22, 2022 by Ombud 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnesterz Posted December 23, 2022 #136 Share Posted December 23, 2022 (edited) Interesting article on future ship builds. This leads me to believe transfers within the Carnival family will be more frequent to replace older ships for some years. https://thepointsguy.com/news/carnival-corporation-cruise-ship-orders-on-hold/ Edited December 23, 2022 by mtnesterz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare cr8tiv1 Posted December 23, 2022 #137 Share Posted December 23, 2022 Leave my Grand Princess alone! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Ombud Posted December 23, 2022 Author #138 Share Posted December 23, 2022 1 hour ago, mtnesterz said: Interesting article on future ship builds. This leads me to believe transfers within the Carnival family will be more frequent to replace older ships for some years. https://thepointsguy.com/news/carnival-corporation-cruise-ship-orders-on-hold/ Necessary. Perhaps POAU Explorer (1997) can be replaced with the newer Costa Magica, Serena, or Diadema .... the 3 Costa ships laid up. Just don't bring those 3 back. Sell 2 / shift 1 / dump an older ship. I don't see Carnival Sunshine or Grand Princess going as they are the largest in the 'older ships' group 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnesterz Posted December 26, 2022 #139 Share Posted December 26, 2022 (edited) A Spanish news agency is reporting the two ships Costa is letting go are sister ships Fortuna (2003) and Magica (2004). Both are 2700+ passengers with 3400 max capacity. No word on what will be done with them. The third ship from Carnival's fleets was not revealed. The Magica is in lay-up and Fortuna will complete its scheduled cruises through April '23. Just an opinion here, but sure seems they would replace the Carnival Sunshine and POAU Pacific Explorer. Edited December 26, 2022 by mtnesterz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Ombud Posted December 26, 2022 Author #140 Share Posted December 26, 2022 Those 2 (Carnival Sunshine and POAU Pacific Explorer) are the oldest so makes sense. I still would expect Costa Ships to replace them ..... POAU Pacific Explorer as POAU needs more than 2 ships & CC is starting Costa by Carnival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowzz Posted December 26, 2022 #141 Share Posted December 26, 2022 The following thread is of interest, as it contains the opinion of a Carnival employee in the UK https://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/topic/2901485-carnival-corporation-axing-three-ships/page/2/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare LACruiser88 Posted December 27, 2022 #142 Share Posted December 27, 2022 19 hours ago, wowzz said: The following thread is of interest, as it contains the opinion of a Carnival employee in the UK https://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/topic/2901485-carnival-corporation-axing-three-ships/page/2/ Thank you for posting the link. Very interesting discussion. We will definitely see some ships moving around over the next few years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnesterz Posted January 5, 2023 #143 Share Posted January 5, 2023 Cruise Industry News is reporting that the previously unnamed third ship Carnival will let go is the AIDAaura. This will happen this September. It does not say where the ship will go. Wikipedia says the Fortuna and Magica will go to outside buyers by the end of the year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Ombud Posted January 5, 2023 Author #144 Share Posted January 5, 2023 Updating list: Costa Atlantica -> CSSC 2. Costa Mediterranea -> CSSC 3. Costa neoRomantica -> Celestyal Cruises Experience 4. HAL Amsterdam -> Fred Olsen Bolette 5. HAL Rotterdam -> Fred Olsen Borealis 6. HAL Maasdam -> Seajets Aegan Myths 7. HAL Veendam -> Seajets Aegean Majesty 8. P&O Oceana -> Seajets Queen of the Oceans 9. POAU Pacific Aria -> Seajets 10. POAU Pacific Dawn -> Ambassador Ambience 11. Sea Princess > Foresee Cruises Charming 12. Sun Princess > Peace Boat Pacific World 13. Pacific Princess > Azamara Onward 14. AIDAcara -> Astoria Grande 15. AIDAmira -> Ambassador Ambition 16. AIDAvita-> left June 2022. 17. Costa Fortuna -> 18. Costa Magica -> 19. AIDAAura -> Scrapped: 20. Costa Victoria 21. Carnival Fantasy 22. Carnival Inspiration 23. Carnival Fascination 24. Carnival Imagination 25. Carnival Ecstasy 26. Carnival Sensation 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarnivalShips480 Posted February 9, 2023 #145 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Updated your list: Costa Atlantica -> CSSC 2. Costa Mediterranea -> CSSC 3. Costa neoRomantica -> Celestyal Cruises Experience 4. HAL Amsterdam -> Fred Olsen Bolette 5. HAL Rotterdam -> Fred Olsen Borealis 6. HAL Maasdam -> Seajets Aegan Myths 7. HAL Veendam -> Seajets Aegean Majesty 8. P&O Oceana -> Seajets Queen of the Oceans 9. POAU Pacific Aria -> Seajets 10. POAU Pacific Dawn -> Ambassador Ambience 11. Sea Princess > Foresee Cruises Charming 12. Sun Princess > Peace Boat Pacific World 13. Pacific Princess > Azamara Onward 14. AIDAcara -> Astoria Grande 15. AIDAmira -> Ambassador Ambition 16. AIDAvita-> left June 2022. 17. Costa Fortuna -> 18. Costa Magica -> Seajets 19. AIDAAura -> Scrapped: 20. Costa Victoria 21. Carnival Fantasy 22. Carnival Inspiration 23. Carnival Fascination 24. Carnival Imagination 25. Carnival Ecstasy 26. Carnival Sensation 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Ombud Posted March 16, 2023 Author #146 Share Posted March 16, 2023 And another one bites the dust: 1. Costa Atlantica -> CSSC 2. Costa Mediterranea -> CSSC 3. Costa neoRomantica -> Celestyal Cruises Experience 4. HAL Amsterdam -> Fred Olsen Bolette 5. HAL Rotterdam -> Fred Olsen Borealis 6. HAL Maasdam -> Seajets Aegan Myths 7. HAL Veendam -> Seajets Aegean Majesty 8. P&O Oceana -> Seajets Queen of the Oceans 9. POAU Pacific Aria -> Seajets 10. POAU Pacific Dawn -> Ambassador Ambience 11. Sea Princess > Foresee Cruises Charming 12. Sun Princess > Peace Boat Pacific World 13. Pacific Princess > Azamara Onward 14. AIDAcara -> Astoria Grande 15. AIDAmira -> Ambassador Ambition 16. AIDAvita-> left June 2022. 17. Costa Fortuna -> 18. Costa Magica -> Seajets 19. AIDAAura -> 20. Seabourn Odyssey -> Mitsui O.S.K. Lines but leased back to Seaborn for cruises already booked Scrapped: 21. Costa Victoria 22. Carnival Fantasy 23. Carnival Inspiration 24. Carnival Fascination 25. Carnival Imagination 26. Carnival Ecstasy 27. Carnival Sensation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare cr8tiv1 Posted March 17, 2023 #147 Share Posted March 17, 2023 How current is this? Done deal? or in the works? Whew...Grand Princess is NOT on your list, yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Ombud Posted March 17, 2023 Author #148 Share Posted March 17, 2023 1 hour ago, cr8tiv1 said: How current is this? Done deal? or in the works? Whew...Grand Princess is NOT on your list, yet. Announced today but leased back until August 22, 2024 so they won't be canceling any trips 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnesterz Posted March 17, 2023 #149 Share Posted March 17, 2023 Don't know how long to follow a ship's owner changes. P&O Pacific Aria, formerly HAL Ryndam, #9 on the list, went to Seajets, but now bought by Celestyal. Speculate that Celestyal will buy sister ship, formerly HAL Veendam as time goes forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Ombud Posted March 17, 2023 Author #150 Share Posted March 17, 2023 Personally I follow until CCL gets paid until I'm only interested in $$s into them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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