Return to normalcy?

[ace2542]

12 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

The sarcasm in referencing "my friend Ace" was apparently lost on you

Are you admitting that I speak truths? 😲😮😮😀🤣

 

Though masks may not end up being "forever" - though what is forever I think words means different things to different people doesn't it -. It does cost nothing to be required to wear them onboard for the health of the crew if nothing else.

[time4u2go]

19 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Just remember the usa came up with a brand new way to classify deaths under covid. If we still used the flu death criteria  there would be 1/4 as many deaths

In any event, 500,000+ more people have died in the US in the last 12 months than normal.

[Milwaukee Eight]

8 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

In any event, 500,000+ more people have died in the US in the last 12 months than normal.

I agree but there doesn’t appear to be much difference in numbers from lockdown States versus States not in lockdown. This is just deaths by State. 
 

However, deaths by 100k, open States are doing much better than those in lockdown.  The two worse States Deaths by 100k are New Jersey and New York. And they have been in some form of lockdown for a year. 
 

It’s hard to keep arguing against the data. Lockdowns are not working but saying so the Government loses control of the people. 
 

M8

Edited March 26, 2021 by Milwaukee Eight

[time4u2go]

3 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I agree but there doesn’t appear to be much difference in numbers from lockdown States versus States not lockdown. This is just deaths by State. 
 

However, deaths by 100k, open States are doing much better than those in lockdown.  The two worse States Deaths by 100k are New Jersey and New York. And they have been in some for of lockdown for a year. 
 

It’s hard to keep arguing against the data. Lockdowns are not working but saying so the Government loses control of the people. 
 

M8

I was responding to the claim that "there would be 1/4 as many deaths".

[HBE4]

1 hour ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Try this one. Not homemade. 
 

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/us-coronavirus-deaths-by-state-july-1.html

 

Thanks. I did see that earlier.  Of course, it relies on the numbers reported by the state. Of course, I'm sure you know my stance on that by now so no need to rehash😇

 

 

18 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

These really don’t matter. It’s always been about overrunning our healthcare system and hospitals. With few exceptions, Florida Hospitals have not been overrun and still maintaining a 20-25% average ICU bed availability, which is normal. 

Just more Doom and Gloom from the same few. 
 

 

I don't know who the doom and gloom people are but on the rest of the post, I agree with you. It's always been about (or should have been about) keeping the hospitals from being overrun. At the very beginning of the pandemic, when there were no covid-19 protocols in effect, a few NYC hospitals were hit hard but where quickly brought under control.  Much faster than expected. 

 

Nice to see both NY & FL doing a great job!

 

[Milwaukee Eight]

1 minute ago, HBE4 said:

 

Thanks. I did see that earlier.  Of course, it relies on the numbers reported by the state. Of course, I'm sure you know my stance on that by now so no need to rehash😇

 

 

 

I don't know who the doom and gloom people are but on the rest of the post, I agree with you. It's always been about (or should have been about) keeping the hospitals from being overrun. At the very beginning of the pandemic, when there were no covid-19 protocols in effect, a few NYC hospitals were hit hard but where quickly brought under control.  Much faster than expected. 

 

Nice to see both NY & FL doing a great job!

 

I think you know and it’s not you. Some of the same that complained about getting “kicked” out of the CL.  Just doom and gloom. My opinion. 
 

M8

[HBE4]

20 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I agree but there doesn’t appear to be much difference in numbers from lockdown States versus States not lockdown. This is just deaths by State. 
 

However, deaths by 100k, open States are doing much better than those in lockdown.  The two worse States Deaths by 100k are New Jersey and New York. And they have been in some for of lockdown for a year. 
 

It’s hard to keep arguing against the data. Lockdowns are not working but saying so the Government loses control of the people. 
 

M8

 

What states are in lockdown?

 

I've been going out to restaurants and bars to eat and drink since last summer. Both outdoors and indoors. I just don't post it every day on every thread 😉😇.  Just purchased my 20-game season pass to Yankee Stadium. First game on April 6th.  The state does have some bizarre rules about live music. Bars can have bands play but not advertise them. Weird as most local bands have a following & their fans will find them no matter what. Not exactly the strictest of lockdowns.

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by HBE4

[Milwaukee Eight]

4 minutes ago, HBE4 said:

 

What states are in lockdown?

 

I've been going out to restaurants and bars to eat and drink since last summer. Both outdoors and indoors. I just don't post it every day on every thread 😉😇.  Just purchased my 20-game season pass to Yankee Stadium. First game in April 6th.  The state does have some bizarre rules about live music. Bars can have bands play but not advertise them. Weird as most local bands have a following & their fans will find them no matter what. Not exactly the strictest of lockdowns.

 

It’s my understanding that NJ/NY have been coming out of lockdown. Are you saying you were never in total lockdown? I’d like to know more. 

Why then I wonder why we have a thread about returning to normalcy?

 

Thanks

M8

Edited March 26, 2021 by Milwaukee Eight

[ace2542]

29 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

In any event, 500,000+ more people have died in the US in the last 12 months than normal.

And that is to say nothing of the upcoming  cancer pandemic of untreated patients and the surely massive delays in treatment of numerous medical conditions within the USA. UK is expecting very long wait times for other treatments in hospitals. Upto 2 years in some cases.

[broberts]

1 hour ago, smokeybandit said:

Just remember the usa came up with a brand new way to classify deaths under covid. If we still used the flu death criteria  there would be 1/4 as many deaths

 

Source?

 

41 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I agree but there doesn’t appear to be much difference in numbers from lockdown States versus States not in lockdown. This is just deaths by State. 
 

However, deaths by 100k, open States are doing much better than those in lockdown.  The two worse States Deaths by 100k are New Jersey and New York. And they have been in some form of lockdown for a year. 
 

It’s hard to keep arguing against the data. Lockdowns are not working but saying so the Government loses control of the people. 
 

M8

 

This argument suggests that all other factors are non contributing. An obviously incorrect assumption. Demographics, densities, general health, climate, and actual practice to name just a few factors do contribute to outcomes.

[Sky616]

18 hours ago, yogimax said:

You must be very proud of yourself...sounds like it!

Yep, I am

[bucfan2]

1 hour ago, ace2542 said:

Are you admitting that I speak truths? 😲😮😮😀🤣

 

Though masks may not end up being "forever" - though what is forever I think words means different things to different people doesn't it -. It does cost nothing to be required to wear them onboard for the health of the crew if nothing else.

 

Recommend a few simple tasks for ya:  1) Put down the pipe,  2) have a nice hot cup of tea w/ the Queen,  and 3) Just read threads for a while and perhaps comment after you've had a chance to clear your head.

Edited March 26, 2021 by bucfan2

[HBE4]

35 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

It’s my understanding that NJ/NY have been coming out of lockdown. Are you saying you were never in total lockdown? I’d like to know more. 

Why then I wonder why we have a thread about returning to normalcy?

 

Thanks

M8

 

NY/NJ/CT have been coming out of lockdown since early last summer. It's just at a much more....."measured"....pace. Weather last summer was the best in years so we always ate outside even when indoor dining was available. Even hit the beach a few times and only wore a mask to and from the car or going indoors to the restroom/concession stand. While each state set it's own rules, they did coordinate with each other.

 

Mind you, I don't live in NYC. I'm an hour away so the rules are different. I haven't been to NYC since last Feb.  The media focuses more on NYC than the rest of the state. But to give you the long and drawn out explanation if you're really interested: NY was divided into 10 geographic regions: NYC, Long Island and 8 others scattered around the state.  Based on a whole bunch of metrics such as rolling 7 day average of hospitalizations, ICU capacity, % testing positive, R0, etc, etc, certain restrictions on each regions could be lifted. There were initially going to be 4 planned phases. For example, Phase 1 would be outdoor dining at 25% capacity and hair salons allowed to open. Phase 2 could be outdoor dining at 50% and indoor dining a 25%. I don't remember what the exact criteria was for each phase but you get the idea. 

 

At one point, it did get  bit confusing at there would be 5 regions in Phase 3, 4 regions in phase 2 and NYC still stuck in phase 1. But eventually, all the regions outside of NYC quickly synced up so the rules fell into 2 groups: NYC and the rest of the state. NYC was always a phase or two behind the rest of the state.  And as I said earlier  the media focuses on NYC which is not representative of the rest of the state.  That would be like me judging all of Florida based on what happens in Miami.

 

Now, do you want to hear about micro-zones? LOL

 

[HBE4]

31 minutes ago, broberts said:

This argument suggests that all other factors are non contributing. An obviously incorrect assumption. Demographics, densities, general health, climate, and actual practice to name just a few factors do contribute to outcomes.

 

100% agree. I wish I could have given your post a dozen likes.  You've summed it up nicely and succinctly.

[Milwaukee Eight]

49 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

Source?

 

 

This argument suggests that all other factors are non contributing. An obviously incorrect assumption. Demographics, densities, general health, climate, and actual practice to name just a few factors do contribute to outcomes.

It depends on what Kool-Aid one drinks. Florida is fine and wasn’t locked down for more than a month or two. We just had Bikeweek a few weeks back with ~500k people including Spring Breakers. All hotels open and were sold out. No super spreader event here. The control is NOT working. Even Miami, where my son is an ICU Nurse at Florida’s largest hospital, they are fine. 

We actually went to a concert last night. Sold out. Great to be a Floridian. We have dense inner cities. And speaking of those, our Federal Government took over the vaccine distribution (took away from our Governor who is making them look bad) for these dense cities and it appears the vaccines are by all reports, underutilized. 
 

So, what’s wrong with my assumption?

 

M8

Edited March 26, 2021 by Milwaukee Eight

[Milwaukee Eight]

20 minutes ago, HBE4 said:

 

NY/NJ/CT have been coming out of lockdown since early last summer. It's just at a much more....."measured"....pace. Weather last summer was the best in years so we always ate outside even when indoor dining was available. Even hit the beach a few times and only wore a mask to and from the car or going indoors to the restroom/concession stand. While each state set it's own rules, they did coordinate with each other.

 

Mind you, I don't live in NYC. I'm an hour away so the rules are different. I haven't been to NYC since last Feb.  The media focuses more on NYC than the rest of the state. But to give you the long and drawn out explanation if you're really interested: NY was divided into 10 geographic regions: NYC, Long Island and 8 others scattered around the state.  Based on a whole bunch of metrics such as rolling 7 day average of hospitalizations, ICU capacity, % testing positive, R0, etc, etc, certain restrictions on each regions could be lifted. There were initially going to be 4 planned phases. For example, Phase 1 would be outdoor dining at 25% capacity and hair salons allowed to open. Phase 2 could be outdoor dining at 50% and indoor dining a 25%. I don't remember what the exact criteria was for each phase but you get the idea. 

 

At one point, it did get  bit confusing at there would be 5 regions in Phase 3, 4 regions in phase 2 and NYC still stuck in phase 1. But eventually, all the regions outside of NYC quickly synced up so the rules fell into 2 groups: NYC and the rest of the state. NYC was always a phase or two behind the rest of the state.  And as I said earlier  the media focuses on NYC which is not representative of the rest of the state.  That would be like me judging all of Florida based on what happens in Miami.

 

Now, do you want to hear about micro-zones? LOL

 

I know people who work in the city as first responders but live outside the city. The other is a teacher. They can’t come to Florida because returning requires a quarantine. 

That’s not “lockdown”?  It is to me. Control. 
 

M8

[Ocean Boy]

16 hours ago, lenquixote66 said:

I believe that masks will be worn until early 2023.

Then it is a good thing my 2022 bookings all have refundable deposits.

[Ocean Boy]

1 hour ago, ace2542 said:

And that is to say nothing of the upcoming  cancer pandemic of untreated patients and the surely massive delays in treatment of numerous medical conditions within the USA. UK is expecting very long wait times for other treatments in hospitals. Upto 2 years in some cases.

Wow, yet you constantly criticize the U.S. You should concentrate more on fixing your own problems.

[HBE4]

49 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I know people who work in the city as first responders but live outside the city. The other is a teacher. They can’t come to Florida because returning requires a quarantine. 

That’s not “lockdown”?  It is to me. Control.

 

If they vaccinate, there is no quarantine requirement. It's been lifted. One of the side benefits to getting vaccinated. Otherwise, they need to quarantine for 3 days and get tested. Or they can just fly into Newark,NJ airport and bypass everything. It's on a voluntary basis there, no follow-up.

 

When did Florida drop the ban on New Yorker's? Friends of mine drove there last June or July. Got stopped by a trooper about an hour away from Tampa and was told they need to quantine for 14 days when they got to Tampa. But he admitted there would be no follow-up, nor would the Tampa heath dept be notified. My friends, being somewhat rebellious like @Keksie ignored the quarantine.  Was BD#47 being a control freak then? 

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by HBE4

[yogimax]

2 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Lockdowns are not working but saying so the Government loses control of the people. 
 

M8

Enough already.  Simple logic says that if you have two exactly alike conditions and one group follows basic health rules (including lockdowns) and the second does not, the second group will have a higher infection and death rate.

[yogimax]

2 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I think you know and it’s not you. Some of the same that complained about getting “kicked” out of the CL.  Just doom and gloom. My opinion. 
 

M8

Better to be an alive "doom and gloomer" than a dead Mr. Sunshine.

[Tippyton]

42 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

Wow, yet you constantly criticize the U.S. You should concentrate more on fixing your own problems.

If anybody is interested what Medicare for all would look like....

[Milwaukee Eight]

6 minutes ago, HBE4 said:

 

If they vaccinate, there is no quarantine requirement. It's been lifted. One of the side benefits to getting vaccinated. Otherwise, they need to quarantine for 3 days and get tested. Or they can just fly into Newark,NJ airport and bypass everything. It's on a voluntary basis there, no follow-up.

 

When did Florida drop the ban on New Yorker's? Friends of mine drove there last June or July. Got stopped by a trooper about an hour away from Tampa and was told they need to quantine for 14 days when they got to Tampa. But he admitted there would be no follow-up, nor would the Tampa heath dept be notified. My friends, being somewhat rebellious like @Keksie ignored the quarantine.  Was BD#47 being a control freak then? 

 

I believe that only lasted through April. It was never enforced. I mean if you wee asked to pull over I believe they gave you a sheet of paper explaining what to do. Same at airports. News crews showed passengers getting the notice when they got into the terminal and most threw them in the trash as they were leaving the airport. We had a friend who lives out on Long Island. He and his family tested positive. He said they were harassed daily to insure they were in their home under quarantine. 
 

I’m not sure the lockdown was helpful at all and Florida NEVER sentenced those in LTC facilities to death by Covid. 
 

We are vaccinated. The boss pretty much had too as she works around Covid patients daily. 
 

M8

[Milwaukee Eight]

6 minutes ago, yogimax said:

Enough already.  Simple logic says that if you have two exactly alike conditions and one group follows basic health rules (including lockdowns) and the second does not, the second group will have a higher infection and death rate.

Proof. Source?

I think this is what you always ask for. Your narrative ain’t working. Sorry 
 

M8

Edited March 26, 2021 by Milwaukee Eight

[Tippyton]

4 minutes ago, yogimax said:

Enough already.  Simple logic says that if you have two exactly alike conditions and one group follows basic health rules (including lockdowns) and the second does not, the second group will have a higher infection and death rate.

That's **** is what it is.  Based on one bad assumption after another.  That's why we are all where we are.

 

The logic is that lockdowns, save 100% pure unadulterated lockdowns with sealed borders, dont work.