CDC Conditional Sail Order Extended to Nov 1

[steveru621]

First, CDC is not a regulatory agency and has no regulatory authority, even though it does have a public health mandate.

[Sunshine3601]

Nothing has changed with the CDC and the CSO, just some reporter probably reporting about it since RCL and Celebrity are setting up homeports elsewhere this summer.   No need to rehash it. 

 

[A&L_Ont]

33 minutes ago, molly361 said:

I'm pretty sure they were supposed to be non revenue with volunteers

And out of an American departure port. However, I see them as great trials for the lines without the CDC being involved. They should be well prepared when NA trial sailings begin. 

Edited March 24, 2021 by A&L_Ont

[firefly333]

28 minutes ago, steveru621 said:

First, CDC is not a regulatory agency and has no regulatory authority, even though it does have a public health mandate.

How then could issue no sail orders which were enforceable? 

[firefly333]

28 minutes ago, steveru621 said:

First, CDC is not a regulatory agency and has no regulatory authority, even though it does have a public health mandate.

How then could issue no sail orders which were enforceable? 

[BSocial]

37 minutes ago, molly361 said:

I'm pretty sure they were supposed to be non revenue with volunteers

oh, yes.  Thanks, I forgot that point. 

[Eddie Wilson]

It would not surprise me if the CDC does a bit more chest pounding until the Covid numbers, hospitalizations and deaths reach an even lower figure, say by the end of May if trends continue.  Yes there will be smaller outbreaks, but they should also be squashed by the end of May.

 

THEN, as part of a.....we are Champions for the cause, we are hero’s, bow to us,....they ceremoniously lift the CSO in June.

 

Eddie

[firefly333]

46 minutes ago, Eddie Wilson said:

It would not surprise me if the CDC does a bit more chest pounding until the Covid numbers, hospitalizations and deaths reach an even lower figure, say by the end of May if trends continue.  Yes there will be smaller outbreaks, but they should also be squashed by the end of May.

 

THEN, as part of a.....we are Champions for the cause, we are hero’s, bow to us,....they ceremoniously lift the CSO in June.

 

Eddie

It's been postulated there might be 2 herds, those vaccinated and those who refused. What then?

[A&L_Ont]

42 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

It's been postulated there might be 2 herds, those vaccinated and those who refused. What then?

Then you have those that can cruise sooner, rather than later. 

[jules815]

2 hours ago, Eddie Wilson said:

It would not surprise me if the CDC does a bit more chest pounding until the Covid numbers, hospitalizations and deaths reach an even lower figure, say by the end of May if trends continue.  Yes there will be smaller outbreaks, but they should also be squashed by the end of May.

 

THEN, as part of a.....we are Champions for the cause, we are hero’s, bow to us,....they ceremoniously lift the CSO in June.

 

Eddie

I hope you're right. We're rebooked for mid-October. Both got our first vaccine dose today. Not even going to mention the November 1 date to my husband yet. We're still over 6 months out. Fingers crossed!

Edited March 25, 2021 by jules815

[steveru621]

16 hours ago, Eddie Wilson said:

It would not surprise me if the CDC does a bit more chest pounding until the Covid numbers, hospitalizations and deaths reach an even lower figure, say by the end of May if trends continue.  Yes there will be smaller outbreaks, but they should also be squashed by the end of May.

 

THEN, as part of a.....we are Champions for the cause, we are hero’s, bow to us,....they ceremoniously lift the CSO in June.

 

Eddie

 

The CDC has absolutely no scientific evidence for a November 2021 date, just like Omar in Canada has even less evidence for a February 2022 date.

[ArthurUSCG]

The only thing that would change the CDC's decision is to show them data. The CDC is staffed with scientists and not politicians. I suspect the May RCCL sailing from Israel could provide the data set the CLIA needs, as long as they track the cruisers for 2 weeks after. Hopefully CLIA/RCCL are talking with the CDC privately and structuring the policies to address the CDC's concerns.

Keep in mind that cruising is not a primary concern for the CDC since it is primarily an industry that funnels money to outside of the USA.

[keyboardjunkie]

5 hours ago, ArthurUSCG said:

The only thing that would change the CDC's decision is to show them data. The CDC is staffed with scientists and not politicians. I suspect the May RCCL sailing from Israel could provide the data set the CLIA needs, as long as they track the cruisers for 2 weeks after. Hopefully CLIA/RCCL are talking with the CDC privately and structuring the policies to address the CDC's concerns.

Keep in mind that cruising is not a primary concern for the CDC since it is primarily an industry that funnels money to outside of the USA.

 

I am not certain what you mean by "funnels money to outside of the USA". 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/budget/documents/fy2020/cdc-overview-factsheet.pdf

[boscobeans]

6 hours ago, ArthurUSCG said:

Keep in mind that cruising is not a primary concern for the CDC since it is primarily an industry that funnels money to outside of the USA.

I don't think the estimated 400,000 thousand Americans that earn a living from the cruise industry would agree.

 

It is estimated that Canaveral lost 50 million dollars in cruise revenue during 2020.

 

Imagine if Canaveral lost that much what Fort Lauderdale and Miami lost ?? 

 

Ports and workers in New York, New Jersey, Baltimore, Boston and California are losing billions along with all the ancillary industries that they support and rely on.

 

 

[chengkp75]

On 3/24/2021 at 6:56 PM, steveru621 said:

First, CDC is not a regulatory agency and has no regulatory authority, even though it does have a public health mandate.

 

On 3/24/2021 at 7:26 PM, firefly333 said:

How then could issue no sail orders which were enforceable? 

CBP and USCG are the regulatory agencies, the USCG issues the "free pratique" or health clearance, in consultation with the CDC.

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, boscobeans said:

I don't think the estimated 400,000 thousand Americans that earn a living from the cruise industry would agree.

 

It is estimated that Canaveral lost 50 million dollars in cruise revenue during 2020.

 

Imagine if Canaveral lost that much what Fort Lauderdale and Miami lost ?? 

 

Ports and workers in New York, New Jersey, Baltimore, Boston and California are losing billions along with all the ancillary industries that they support and rely on.

 

 

$9 billion in economic impact, including PC (in 2019)

Edited March 26, 2021 by not-enough-cruising

[ArthurUSCG]

2 hours ago, boscobeans said:

I don't think the estimated 400,000 thousand Americans that earn a living from the cruise industry would agree.

 

It is estimated that Canaveral lost 50 million dollars in cruise revenue during 2020.

 

Imagine if Canaveral lost that much what Fort Lauderdale and Miami lost ?? 

 

Ports and workers in New York, New Jersey, Baltimore, Boston and California are losing billions along with all the ancillary industries that they support and rely on.

 

 

What country does Carnival pay taxes to?

 

Have you looked at the other USA based industries that are booming? Look at the RV industry, all of the parts suppliers, the campgrounds, etc. The money's still in circulation but following to different locations.

[Eddie Wilson]

8 hours ago, ArthurUSCG said:

The only thing that would change the CDC's decision is to show them data. The CDC is staffed with scientists and not politicians. I suspect the May RCCL sailing from Israel could provide the data set the CLIA needs, as long as they track the cruisers for 2 weeks after. Hopefully CLIA/RCCL are talking with the CDC privately and structuring the policies to address the CDC's concerns.

Keep in mind that cruising is not a primary concern for the CDC since it is primarily an industry that funnels money to outside of the USA.

 

If current trends continue, other data they may find in their own generated tracking charts.

 

If by the end of April, average cases drops to 30,000 or less range, and then by end of May  they drop to 15,000 or less range, by the end of June they should be able to see they don’t have to keep the barn door closed on this industry until Nov.  

 

Hospitalizations lag about 2 weeks behind cases, and deaths about 2 weeks behind hospitalizations.  And remember, the older population was vaccinated first,  so hospitalizations and deaths should begin to bottom out soon.

 

Eddie

[neverbeenhere]

[publicpersona]

All one needs to do is look at the many cruises that have been sailing elsewhere since November with virtually zero COVID issues to know what real life data is telling us. 

[easyqueasy]

10 hours ago, ArthurUSCG said:

The only thing that would change the CDC's decision is to show them data. The CDC is staffed with scientists and not politicians. I suspect the May RCCL sailing from Israel could provide the data set the CLIA needs, as long as they track the cruisers for 2 weeks after. Hopefully CLIA/RCCL are talking with the CDC privately and structuring the policies to address the CDC's concerns.

Keep in mind that cruising is not a primary concern for the CDC since it is primarily an industry that funnels money to outside of the USA.

So the CDC is concerned with safety and health of people to shut down cruising in the US, but unless the US gets paid by cruising industry there’s no concern to them no matter what science proves? What are the CDC’s concerns? Pay before we hear your cause sounds political.

[thewebbys]

On 3/24/2021 at 7:03 PM, Sunshine3601 said:

Nothing has changed with the CDC and the CSO, just some reporter probably reporting about it since RCL and Celebrity are setting up homeports elsewhere this summer.   No need to rehash it. 

 

It is a response to CLIA letter sent to CDC to start cruising by July. The CDC response was said yesterday. So it is news. This is the first time we heard from the CDC since Feb.

 

A call from the cruise industry to end the conditional sail order by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention by July was met with opposition Wednesday, but the 74-point plan for ships to return to business may be getting changes.

A spokesperson for the CDC, Caitlin Shockey said in an emailed statement that the order will remain in place until Nov. 1, but that the order will shift from its current language.

[thewebbys]

On 3/24/2021 at 6:37 PM, BSocial said:

Maybe all these summer cruises from Nassau and Bermuda can qualify as CDC “test” cruises.   Did the CDC’s CSO stipulate the test cruises had to be from a US Port? 
 

also, IF (and its a BIg IF) the CDC just lets the CSO expire, do cruise lines  have to then schedule Coast Guard Inspections, etc,  wonder what the timing will be from Nov 1 to the first revenue cruises from US Ports.

 

 

No they would not qualify. They have to be from US port showing procedures for these. (only a few). Of course subject to change according to the CDC yesterday.

(7) A simulated voyage must include the following simulated activities:
(i) embarkation and disembarkation procedures, including terminal check-in,
(ii) on board activities, including at dining and entertainment venues,
(iii) private island shore excursions, if any are planned during restricted passenger voyages,
(iv) evacuation procedures,

(v) transfer of symptomatic passengers or crew, or those who test positive for SARS- CoV-2, from cabins to isolation rooms,

(vi) quarantine of all remaining passengers and non-essential crew, and
(vii) other activities as may be listed in CDC technical instructions and orders.
(8) The cruise ship operator must meet standards for hand hygiene, face coverings, and social distancing for passengers and crew, as well as ship sanitation, as may be required by CDC technical instructions or orders.

(9) The cruise ship operator must modify meal service and entertainment venues to facilitate social distancing during the simulated voyage.

(10) The cruise ship operator must conduct laboratory testing of all passengers and crew on the day of embarkation and the day of disembarkation as required by CDC technical

instructions or orders.

[Ken at the beach]

On the webinar on Wednesday R Fain mentioned that test cruises would not be what they had been preparing for.  He said it was unlikely that they would need any of those people that signed up for the cruises and that very few test cruises would be needed and would most likely be filled with employees and travel partners. 

[dswallow]

The major passenger cruise lines need to negotiate with the major cargo shipping lines and arrange for a port stoppage. Cargo container ships refuse to dock at US ports until the US allows the cruise lines to operate again

 

Kinda like a Labor Union strike works.

 

Might even be a good opportunity to force revisions of the Jones Act and PVSA as well. It's not like there's even a US marine shipping industry to function in its place.