April 2nd CDC Technical Guidance

[cruisegirl]

On 4/3/2021 at 12:57 PM, Heartgrove said:

Simplified instructions from the CDC on how the cruise industry can resume sailing are in the document. It includes a graphic to explain the phased approach. 

 

 

Is there anything in the document about when they can start the test cruises?  If they have to wait until November 1, 2021, my December 4 cruise looks less likely. 

[chengkp75]

Just now, cruisegirl said:

Is there anything in the document about when they can start the test cruises?  If they have to wait until November 1, 2021, my December 4 cruise looks less likely. 

Once the cruise lines obtain the specified agreements and contracts, then they can apply for simulated cruises, once the instructions for those simulated cruises are published.

[rucrazy]

4 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

once the instructions for those simulated cruises are published.

It is MHO that those instructions should be announced sooner than later... my gut says published within the next 30 days.

 

Joseph

[chengkp75]

37 minutes ago, rucrazy said:

It is MHO that those instructions should be announced sooner than later... my gut says published within the next 30 days.

 

Joseph

It is MHO that the cruise lines should have promulgated those instructions, as an action plan, about 6-8 months ago, when the requirements for simulated cruises were first published.  The CDC is only resorting to "technical instructions" since the cruise lines never responded to the guidelines set by the CDC back in April 2020.

[POA1]

If you have read the whole thing, you've probably noticed that the cruise line has to have enough hotel rooms to quarantine the entire ship for 2 weeks. Apparently the CDC thinks that the virus is 100% transmissable. Can you imagine what this new cost is going to do to cruise fares? Or hotel costs in port cities?

[rucrazy]

5 minutes ago, POA1 said:

Apparently the CDC thinks that the virus is 100% transmissable

I took that as a safety net policy considering what "we think vs what we know"

 

Joseph

[KirkNC]

28 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

It is MHO that the cruise lines should have promulgated those instructions, as an action plan, about 6-8 months ago, when the requirements for simulated cruises were first published.  The CDC is only resorting to "technical instructions" since the cruise lines never responded to the guidelines set by the CDC back in April 2020.

I agree, the inaction (as far as I can tell) of the cruise lines has been baffling.

[srpilo]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

It is MHO that the cruise lines should have promulgated those instructions, as an action plan, about 6-8 months ago, when the requirements for simulated cruises were first published.  The CDC is only resorting to "technical instructions" since the cruise lines never responded to the guidelines set by the CDC back in April 2020.

 

Please point to your previous posts with these insights back in 2020 or since then.

 

 

The anonymous internet never has a shortage of arm chair quarterbacks  - Just saying....

 

 

 

.

Edited April 4, 2021 by srpilo

[DAllenTCY]

The cruise lines have done planning.

 

I received an e-mail mid-October 2020 which outlined many of the challenges....and what we might expect when cruises resume from the US as employees.

 

The problem that I see is doubling staff needed to disembark and embark on the same day.  Either we would work from 8-noon or from 10-4.  

 

David

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, srpilo said:

 

Please point to your previous posts with these insights back in 2020 or since then.

 

 

The anonymous internet never has a shortage of arm chair quarterbacks  - Just saying....

 

 

 

.

My previous posts are all here, you just need to look for them.  Go to my profile and look for content.

 

And, I'm not an armchair quarterback, what I stated is fact, the requirements outlined this week, are the same ones listed in the No Sail Order, published in April 2020.  I also have experience working for the cruise lines and working under CDC regulation.  Just sayin'

[CruiserBruce]

Agree with the above. The requirements for arrangements for mass quarantine,  larger medical staffs and agreements with ports to deal with Covid patients and sick ships arriving in ports was announced a long time ago, but haven't seen any indication the cruise lines have accomplished any of this. Were they hoping the problem would go away,  thus making these requirements moot?

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

Agree with the above. The requirements for arrangements for mass quarantine,  larger medical staffs and agreements with ports to deal with Covid patients and sick ships arriving in ports was announced a long time ago, but haven't seen any indication the cruise lines have accomplished any of this. Were they hoping the problem would go away,  thus making these requirements moot?

Yes, and to some extent they are still hoping it all goes away with the vaccines becoming a magic bullet.

[ronrythm]

5 hours ago, srpilo said:

 

Please point to your previous posts with these insights back in 2020 or since then.

 

 

The anonymous internet never has a shortage of arm chair quarterbacks  - Just saying....

 

 

 

.

A lot of us can attest that the Chief has been pointing this out since the first no sail order. You know you can click on the user name to find all of their past posts. A little research would keep you from a lot of embarrassment.

 

The Chief has consistently pointed out that the cruise lines have made no effort to actually comply with the CDC requirements, and no matter how much the cruise line cheerleaders want to ignore it, that is why they are no closer to sailing again.

[ontheweb]

7 hours ago, ronrythm said:

A lot of us can attest that the Chief has been pointing this out since the first no sail order. You know you can click on the user name to find all of their past posts. A little research would keep you from a lot of embarrassment.

 

The Chief has consistently pointed out that the cruise lines have made no effort to actually comply with the CDC requirements, and no matter how much the cruise line cheerleaders want to ignore it, that is why they are no closer to sailing again.

So true, I have posted previously that he has the patience of a Saint the way he deals with people who think their few nights at a Holiday Inn gives them more expertise than his many years at sea.

[darwinsrule]

 

16 hours ago, POA1 said:

If you have read the whole thing, you've probably noticed that the cruise line has to have enough hotel rooms to quarantine the entire ship for 2 weeks. Apparently the CDC thinks that the virus is 100% transmissable. Can you imagine what this new cost is going to do to cruise fares? Or hotel costs in port cities?

 

Something to keep in mind is that every single outbreak we saw on ships prior to the shutdown was based upon the original Wuhan version of the version.  The new variants are much more transmissable and unfortunately based upon the data more deadly.  The current variant driven waves in Europe, Brazil, Canada and some U.S. states (and a lot of other places) is driven by either the U.K. South African or Brailian versions.  Any one of those loose on a ship would . . . well if you want to cruise again it would be a bad thing.  

[cruisegirl]

I read posts here and wonder if I will ever cruise again let alone December 4. It is hard to not get discouraged. I had assumed the ships were using this time to get their ducks in order and be compliant with CDC requirements. Any idea that they aren’t is disheartening. 

[idiebabe]

31 minutes ago, cruisegirl said:

I read posts here and wonder if I will ever cruise again let alone December 4. It is hard to not get discouraged. I had assumed the ships were using this time to get their ducks in order and be compliant with CDC requirements. Any idea that they aren’t is disheartening. 

Sometimes you just have to take what you read on CC with a grain of salt.  These  Cruise Lines have been working hard to get Ships sailing.  There was a very informative Roundtable held on March 26th at Port Canaveral with Ron DeSantis and the Presidents of all the Cruise Lines.  You can find it in the Port Canaveral site or on YouTube.  At that Meeting they said they were running into a Brick Wall with the CDC responding to them “In Review”.  Since that Meeting there’s been some movement on getting closer to Sailing.  Definitely worth watching, IMO.  

[cruisegirl]

2 hours ago, idiebabe said:

Sometimes you just have to take what you read on CC with a grain of salt.  These  Cruise Lines have been working hard to get Ships sailing.  There was a very informative Roundtable held on March 26th at Port Canaveral with Ron DeSantis and the Presidents of all the Cruise Lines.  You can find it in the Port Canaveral site or on YouTube.  At that Meeting they said they were running into a Brick Wall with the CDC responding to them “In Review”.  Since that Meeting there’s been some movement on getting closer to Sailing.  Definitely worth watching, IMO.  

Thanks. I needed to hear that! 

[ontheweb]

9 hours ago, idiebabe said:

Sometimes you just have to take what you read on CC with a grain of salt.  These  Cruise Lines have been working hard to get Ships sailing.  There was a very informative Roundtable held on March 26th at Port Canaveral with Ron DeSantis and the Presidents of all the Cruise Lines.  You can find it in the Port Canaveral site or on YouTube.  At that Meeting they said they were running into a Brick Wall with the CDC responding to them “In Review”.  Since that Meeting there’s been some movement on getting closer to Sailing.  Definitely worth watching, IMO.  

You would not expect them to say that it was their fault for not replying to the CDC would you?

[Heartgrove]

I previously raised the issue of what the cruise companies had been doing all this time. It appears that once the vaccines were rolled out, that would relieve them of having to make any modifications. So they sat on their hands.

 

Now i read that RCL are putting four ships into drydock beginning this week. They are only to receive a technical drydock which are mandated by maritime law. No mention of any health or safety improvements for sailing during the pandemic. Yes, we are still in a pandemic.

[cruisegirl]

13 hours ago, idiebabe said:

Sometimes you just have to take what you read on CC with a grain of salt.  These  Cruise Lines have been working hard to get Ships sailing.  There was a very informative Roundtable held on March 26th at Port Canaveral with Ron DeSantis and the Presidents of all the Cruise Lines.  You can find it in the Port Canaveral site or on YouTube.  At that Meeting they said they were n’t end running into a Brick Wall with the CDC responding to them “In Review”.  Since that Meeting there’s been some movement on getting closer h it. to r Sailing.  Definitely worth watching, IMO.  

I watched some of this last night. It was late and I had to pause it but intend to finish it today. It is wise to hear a different side. 

[fatcat04]

On 4/3/2021 at 7:53 AM, Hlitner said:

This document is almost laughable.  I would guess that Dr. Walensky lit a fire under somebody's butt in her agency and they quickly spit out this document without much thought.   I like the part where they say "This article will be updated shortly with more information" which is kind of like the Oct Framework where they promised technical information.   But the big takeaway is that there is the mention of vaccines as part of any startup strategy.   This is the first time the CDC has acknowledged vaccines in this context.  If I were to guess, after months of delay the CDC will eventually bless the strategy being used by RCI and Celebrity for their Nassau and St Maarten start-ups which use a combination mandatory vaccination policy for those over 18 coupled with testing.

 

Using different gangplanks is a bit silly and I imagine a few highly paid technocrats spend months thinking up that idea.   The question I have been asking since last November about how ships should deal with vertical transportation (techno speak for elevators) is still not addressed.   Of course the obvious solution is that if everyone on the ship has been vaccinated then social distancing in elevators (and elsewhere) is not a big issue.  But if they stick with the idea that those under 18 do not need to be vaccinated, this is going to be the weakest link in any plan.  Crystal Cruise Lines and Viking Ocean Cruises deal with this by allowing no kids.

 

Hank

I went to look at the document today and guess what they changed. No more random 12-hour time frame to separate embarking and disembarking passengers. 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/instructions-local-agreements.html

 

7. The agreement must specify procedures:

• to avoid congregating of embarking and disembarking travelers,
• to ensure disembarking and embarking passengers do not occupy the same enclosed or semi-enclosed areas (e.g., gangways, terminal waiting spaces, check-in areas), to the extent practicable, and
• to ensure disembarking and embarking travelers from different ships do not occupy the same enclosed or semi-enclosed areas (e.g., gangways, terminal waiting spaces, check-in areas), to the extent practicable.

Edited April 13, 2021 by fatcat04

[Hlitner]

13 minutes ago, fatcat04 said:

I went to look at the document today and guess what they changed. No more random 12-hour time frame to separate embarking and disembarking passengers. 

 

7. The agreement must specify procedures:

• to avoid congregating of embarking and disembarking travelers,
• to ensure disembarking and embarking passengers do not occupy the same enclosed or semi-enclosed areas (e.g., gangways, terminal waiting spaces, check-in areas), to the extent practicable, and
• to ensure disembarking and embarking travelers from different ships do not occupy the same enclosed or semi-enclosed areas (e.g., gangways, terminal waiting spaces, check-in areas), to the extent practicable.

Of course a very simple alternative is to require that all the passengers (and crew) be fully vaccinated.  Then the issue of gangplanks is not a big deal.  And by the way, the entire CDC about embarking/disembarking folks needing separation just shows the complete ignorance of the CDC officials who wrote the document.  They obviously have no clue as to how cruises work and the CBP (another Federal Agency) rules about "zeroing out" vessels.  Bottom line is that all the disembarking passengers are required to be off the vessel before the ship is cleared and any embarkation is permitted.     And perhaps the CDC needs to read their own web site where they talk about surface spread of COVID being a very rare problem.   The reality of COVID is that it is usually spread via airborne droplets (and possibly smaller particles) mostly caused by coughing, sneezing, and heavy breathing.   Spread from surfaces is less then a 1 in 10,000 issue.  Science Brief: SARS-CoV-2 and Surface (Fomite) Transmission for Indoor Community Environments | CDC

 

So what does this tell us?  1.  There is no COVID related reason to limit or alter buffets.  2.  All the emphasis on constantly disinfecting surfaces is not likely to mitigate COVID.  

 

And what do we know?  The best way to mitigate COVID is to get folks vaccinated!  It is that simple.  

 

Hank

[oakridger]

@fatcat04 that change makes a lot more sense now!

 

@Hlitner I totally agree with "And what do we know?  The best way to mitigate COVID is to get folks vaccinated!  It is that simple."

 

My motto has always been to "Keep it Simple"!

 

~Nancy

Edited April 13, 2021 by oakridger
Added info

[nocl]

On 4/4/2021 at 12:49 PM, chengkp75 said:

Once the cruise lines obtain the specified agreements and contracts, then they can apply for simulated cruises, once the instructions for those simulated cruises are published.

There is nothing stopping the cruise lines from submitting their own plan for the simulated cruises once the agreements and contracts are in place instead of waiting for the next technical document.

 

However, it appears that the cruise lines approach is to wait for each technical document, then complain that it is burdensome and unworkable.