Unvaccinated cruises out of FL - DeSantis signs in to law “no vaccine passports”

[PuraVida3000]

So, NCL is requiring all to have a vaccine to sail. But what about cruises sailing out of Florida. Now that DeSantis has signed into law that no business can ask for proof of vaccine, how will that work? Will NCL need to bow to FL state law, or go with the CDC requirement of vaccinated crew and passengers?

[oteixeira]

How about you give your vaccine info in the online app, and that way no one IN FLORIDA asked you for anything.  That is my guess.  Also, how does it work if NCLH, which is technically not a Florida company is asking?  I am not sure.

[DCGuy64]

I just read Gov DeSantis's original order. Section 5 states this:

 

"The requirements in this order do not otherwise restrict businesses from instituting Covid-19 screening protocols in accordance with state and federal law to protect public health, and nothing herein shall be construed to interfere with individuals' rights to access their own personal health information under federal law."

 

To me, that seems to suggest that cruise lines could require a screening process, even if they couldn't demand proof of vaccination or proof of recovery. I also wonder whether the fact that cruise ships are foreign flagged and owned will have bearing on the order. The order speaks of "businesses in Florida." Also, the Governor could rescind this order at any time.

Here's the full text:

https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/EO-21-81.pdf

Edited May 3, 2021 by DCGuy64
added link to EO

[ChutChut]

24 minutes ago, oteixeira said:

How about you give your vaccine info in the online app, and that way no one IN FLORIDA asked you for anything.  That is my guess.  Also, how does it work if NCLH, which is technically not a Florida company is asking?  I am not sure.

Doesn't matter if NCL is incorporated in Florida. It only matters if it's doing business "in" Florida.

[ChutChut]

11 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

I just read Gov DeSantis's original order. Section 5 states this:

 

"The requirements in this order do not otherwise restrict businesses from instituting Covid-19 screening protocols in accordance with state and federal law to protect public health, and nothing herein shall be construed to interfere with individuals' rights to access their own personal health information under federal law."

 

To me, that seems to suggest that cruise lines could require a screening process, even if they couldn't demand proof of vaccination or proof of recovery. I also wonder whether the fact that cruise ships are foreign flagged and owned will have bearing on the order. The order speaks of "businesses in Florida." Also, the Governor could rescind this order at any time.

Here's the full text:

https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/EO-21-81.pdf

I think you're right. Cruise line could demand masks, social distancing, a negative Covid test, etc. but cannot require any proof/certification of the vaccine. Also, you're right in what does "in" mean? Does that mean if the business has any offices (corporate or others) in Florida, etc. I don't think the fact the ship is foreign flagged will have bearing as a foreign business can do business "in" Florida. Again - it depends upon what "businesses IN Florida" means. But hasn't deSantis already commented that his Order (and now the passed law) would apply to cruise lines? 

[Middleager]

I'd only go on cruise that require 100% guests/crews to fully vaccinated.  If that means not cruising out of FL, fine with us.  We have to fly to get to a cruise port, so it doesn't matter that much which ports we fly in and out of.  If DeSantis forces cruises away from FL, it's FL's loss of those cruise related businesses.

[DCGuy64]

2 minutes ago, ChutChut said:

I think you're right. Cruise line could demand masks, social distancing, a negative Covid test, etc. but cannot require any proof/certification of the vaccine. Also, you're right in what does "in" mean? Does that mean if the business has any offices (corporate or others) in Florida, etc. I don't think the fact the ship is foreign flagged will have bearing as a foreign business can do business "in" Florida. Again - it depends upon what "businesses IN Florida" means. But hasn't deSantis already commented that his Order (and now the passed law) would apply to cruise lines? 

Thanks, yeah, as I read the whole order, a number of things jumped out at me. For instance, he speaks of people being able to conduct normal affairs like shopping, which (to me, at least) implies that he objects to requiring proof of a vaccine for everyday life, but maybe not for extraordinary things like international travel. I simply don't know. 🤷‍♂️

[ChutChut]

1 minute ago, Middleager said:

I'd only go on cruise that require 100% guests/crews to fully vaccinated.  If that means not cruising out of FL, fine with us.  We have to fly to get to a cruise port, so it doesn't matter that much which ports we fly in and out of.  If DeSantis forces cruises away from FL, it's FL's loss of those cruise related businesses.

What happens when you step off the boat into a foreign port city and are surrounded by unvaccinated and potentially ill people? You can then bring it back onboard with you. Just because you have the vaccine doesn't mean you can't fall ill - and if you have comorbidities, that's another story....

[ChutChut]

Just now, DCGuy64 said:

Thanks, yeah, as I read the whole order, a number of things jumped out at me. For instance, he speaks of people being able to conduct normal affairs like shopping, which (to me, at least) implies that he objects to requiring proof of a vaccine for everyday life, but maybe not for extraordinary things like international travel. I simply don't know. 🤷‍♂️

Good point. I could have sworn I heard him talk about this in relation to the cruise industry but who knows. We'll just have to ride it out and see. 🏄‍♀️

[oteixeira]

2 minutes ago, ChutChut said:

What happens when you step off the boat into a foreign port city and are surrounded by unvaccinated and potentially ill people? You can then bring it back onboard with you. Just because you have the vaccine doesn't mean you can't fall ill - and if you have comorbidities, that's another story....

Are we going to start this again?  if the vaccine was not to make us able to go back to normal life then why bother.  There is proof it reduces the risk of both infection and severity.  

[Paul Bogle]

Regulation of the frontiers of the United States is the exclusive purview of the federal government. 

[hallux]

This has been hashed out in other threads - I believe it's been decided that the Governor has no jurisdiction over the port and as such can't enforce this order on businesses operating there.

[DCGuy64]

53 minutes ago, PuraVida3000 said:

So, NCL is requiring all to have a vaccine to sail. But what about cruises sailing out of Florida. Now that DeSantis has signed into law that no business can ask for proof of vaccine, how will that work? Will NCL need to bow to FL state law, or go with the CDC requirement of vaccinated crew and passengers?

So there you have it, PuraVida. Nothing to worry about. Have a great cruise!

[Cat in my lap]

19 minutes ago, Middleager said:

I'd only go on cruise that require 100% guests/crews to fully vaccinated.  If that means not cruising out of FL, fine with us.  We have to fly to get to a cruise port, so it doesn't matter that much which ports we fly in and out of.  If DeSantis forces cruises away from FL, it's FL's loss of those cruise related businesses.

I agree- if Florida won’t allow proof of vaccination I would rather cruise out of another port

[PuraVida3000]

7 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

So there you have it, PuraVida. Nothing to worry about. Have a great cruise!

Glad to hear! Hope that’s how it comes to be 😉

[PTC DAWG]

28 minutes ago, ChutChut said:

What happens when you step off the boat into a foreign port city and are surrounded by unvaccinated and potentially ill people? You can then bring it back onboard with you. Just because you have the vaccine doesn't mean you can't fall ill - and if you have comorbidities, that's another story....

Anyone worried about that should stay home. 

[Named-Tawny]

Airlines and cruise ships are both in a tight situation if Florida were to enforce a 'no vaccine checking' requirement.  Both are under international obligations to only allow passengers who will be able to complete the trip on board.  So checking passports, visa and, in many cases, vaccinations.

Florida telling either that they can't operate unless they put themselves in massive jeopardy, is just going to result in them leaving - it simply isn't worth it to either.

[Middleager]

56 minutes ago, ChutChut said:

What happens when you step off the boat into a foreign port city and are surrounded by unvaccinated and potentially ill people? You can then bring it back onboard with you. Just because you have the vaccine doesn't mean you can't fall ill - and if you have comorbidities, that's another story....

We all need to continue precautions everywhere, at home or abroad. 

 

Being fully vaccinated myself, and only go on cruises where 100% guests/crews are fully vaccinated, is the choice I can make. 

 

Those who don't agree  don't have to come on same cruises or don't go on cruises at all, or don't go to foreign ports, or don't leave home to walk on the streets as there can be anti-maskers/anti-vaxxers who can potentially make you ill.  In Canada or in US, there are still anti-amskers and anti-vaxxers, so herd immunity may not be achieved.

[HowardK]

its going to be impossible to policce 100%. By the time people get on it could be time for a booster.

Risk can be lowered of course

[Middleager]

Just now, Heymarco said:

@Middleager ok I could have said it better but I am genuinely intrigued as to why airports and airplanes are ok with thousands of unvaccinated people but a few (young) unvaccinated passengers on a cruise ship are an issue? How is one ok but not the other? 
 

I think we can both agree to leave other children topics aside. 🙂

There is a choice of cruises, in that NCL requires 100% fully vaccination, while others don't.  With that choice being available, I'd choose those requiring 100% such as NCL.

 

There isn't a choice for us taking flights.  If there are flights that only has fully vaccinated passengers/crews, I'd take that.  But there isn't such flights available.  

 

If one day some type of accurate/economical rapid-test (wait a few seconds for the result) is available to screen passengers, it'd make sense for airlines to use that.  Similarly with restaurants, concerts, hotels, stadiums.   Until that time, we'd have to take precautions based on what's available.

[cindivan]

1 hour ago, Heymarco said:

That makes zero sense. Why draw the line about 100% vaccinated cruises and not flights? 
 

Any flight I have taken recently has pretty good enforcement of mask wearing. Controlled environment, easier for steward to keep an eye on everyone. Minimal eating and drinking. Very different environment and much tougher to enforce these restrictions on a cruise. 

[mianmike]

2 minutes ago, Heymarco said:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/more-than-5-000-international-air-travellers-positive-for-covid-19-since-february/ar-BB1gjJFr
 

cheers!

 

Are you implying the passengers caught covid on the plane and tested positive upon arrival?   

[cindivan]

22 minutes ago, Heymarco said:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/more-than-5-000-international-air-travellers-positive-for-covid-19-since-february/ar-BB1gjJFr
 

cheers!

I’m under no illusion thinking no one on a plane is positive. But I will take that if everyone is (mostly) wearing masks over a potential cruise bar/restaurant where it’s much more difficult to enforce.   
 

We live in a hub city so it would be harder to nix one airline over our hub airline if one said vaccines are required. Cruise lines are different. I fly or drive to the cruise port, so many more options are on the table. I wonder if a cruise line declared all but one ship required vaccines just how busy that one unvaccinated ship would be.  (I know that’s not legally possible.   It would be super interesting though).  I am so sick of hearing people say they  hope enough other people get vaccinated so they don’t have to.   

Edited May 4, 2021 by cindivan

[LaCal]

No way Desantis will lose millions of dollars for Florida by saying Cruise lines can’t mandate guests being vaccinated 

 

Cruise lines can easily sail out of NY, NJ, NOLA, Galveston, Los Angeles, San Diego and San Francisco and say screw Florida 

 

 

 

[LaCal]

“I don’t think legally that the governor has authority or power or jurisdiction to enact legislation that deals with international commerce involving foreign-flagged cruise ships,” Walker said.