Unvaccinated cruises out of FL - DeSantis signs in to law “no vaccine passports”

[WarfRatWA]

So Florida has effectively banned the use of shot records.   

[Trimone]

If you want to look at this logically, how do you ensure you don’t mix with anyone infected?

NCL and all cruise companies are looking after the welfare of their employees and customers, if you are not happy with it lose the $ and don’t cruise 

[deliver42]

Right now, I'm booed on HAL for Dec.'21, but if they don't require vaccines, then I will cancel that cruise and go with NCL, the Encore, which leaves the same day, even though NCL is about $800.00 more with the same perks. No air fare required.

[harkinmr]

9 hours ago, LaCal said:

No way Desantis will lose millions of dollars for Florida by saying Cruise lines can’t mandate guests being vaccinated 

 

Cruise lines can easily sail out of NY, NJ, NOLA, Galveston, Los Angeles, San Diego and San Francisco and say screw Florida 

 

 

 

He has already said it. He is wrong, but he has said it anyway. 
 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/fl-bz-silversea-cruises-to-require-vaccinations-20210412-7ok6fwabpndc5aop6oyla5tgvq-story.html

 

[Red-Sol]

24 minutes ago, deliver42 said:

Right now, I'm booed on HAL for Dec.'21, but if they don't require vaccines, then I will cancel that cruise and go with NCL, the Encore, which leaves the same day, even though NCL is about $800.00 more with the same perks. No air fare required.

My guess is that once cruising can begin again in earnest out of US Ports...all of the main stream cruise lines will require vaccinations. (You can argue whether or not that is the right thing to do...I happen to agree that they should and will) They will do it for their own risk mitigation if nothing else.

[CI66774]

1 hour ago, harkinmr said:

He has already said it. He is wrong, but he has said it anyway. 
 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/fl-bz-silversea-cruises-to-require-vaccinations-20210412-7ok6fwabpndc5aop6oyla5tgvq-story.html

 

What do you mean by “wrong?” 

[harkinmr]

4 minutes ago, CI66774 said:

What do you mean by “wrong?” 

That he has the authority to tell the cruise lines they cannot mandate vaccines. He doesn’t have that authority. Cruise lines are engaged in interstate and international commerce.  The Governor can only control intrastate commerce. 

[At Sea At Peace]

16 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

Thanks, yeah, as I read the whole order, a number of things jumped out at me. For instance, he speaks of people being able to conduct normal affairs like shopping, which (to me, at least) implies that he objects to requiring proof of a vaccine for everyday life, but maybe not for extraordinary things like international travel. I simply don't know. 🤷‍♂️

 

 

Agreed.

 

Also, airlines might require international flights to have vaccinated passengers in and out of Florida.

 

QUANTAS, et al.

 

"The IATA says 23 airlines, including Qantas, Singapore Airlines, Virgin Atlantic and the parent company of British Airways, are testing Travel Pass. The organization says airlines would have the option of integrating the data into their own apps. IBM has a Digital Health Pass, which enables "organizations to verify health credentials for employees, customers and visitors entering their site based on criteria specified by the organization." 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by At Sea At Peace

[Tapi]

13 hours ago, LaCal said:

Cruise lines can easily sail out of NY, NJ, NOLA, Galveston, Los Angeles, San Diego and San Francisco and say screw Florida 

I know plenty of people where I live who will gladly sail out of Charleston, SC and Mobile, AL; both a much shorter drive than ports in Florida. 
 

Carnival has been sailing from these cities for years. And NCL, Celebrity, and Crystal have done it in the past as well (Charleston). Not a far fetched idea. 

[coffeebean]

19 hours ago, Cat in my lap said:

I agree- if Florida won’t allow proof of vaccination I would rather cruise out of another port

So much lost revenue for Florida. Hope DeSantis has a change of heart with his new law. He will be commuting political suicide if he allows Florida to lose revenue and jobs the cruise industry generates.  

[coffeebean]

16 hours ago, mianmike said:

 

Are you implying the passengers caught covid on the plane and tested positive upon arrival?   

It takes a few days to test positive for Covid once a person is exposed to the virus. 

[warburg]

There is a difference between a vaccine passport and the card you receive when you get the vaccine. The vaccine card contains the same kind of information  as the paper that comes with the flu vaccine.. There is nothing biometric about it. A vaccine passport will contain biometric information  like the driver's license with the star in the right corner. For that license, your fingerprints are taken and filed into a  government database. That is why you can use it for domestic air travel. Showing the vaccine card is just simple proof that you are vaccinated. Think of the vaccine card as a boarding card  for a ship. It shows you are entitled to sail away on that vessel.

[hallux]

5 minutes ago, warburg said:

like the driver's license with the star in the right corner. For that license, your fingerprints are taken and filed into a  government database

Say what?  I don't know about other states but New York is not taking fingerprints for the RealID-compliant licenses.  Shoot - I have the next step up  (between a passport and the RealID license New York has the Enhanced Driver License) and even for THAT I didn't need to give my fingerprints...

[WarfRatWA]

26 minutes ago, warburg said:

There is a difference between a vaccine passport and the card you receive when you get the vaccine. The vaccine card contains the same kind of information  as the paper that comes with the flu vaccine.. There is nothing biometric about it. A vaccine passport will contain biometric information  like the driver's license with the star in the right corner. For that license, your fingerprints are taken and filed into a  government database. That is why you can use it for domestic air travel. Showing the vaccine card is just simple proof that you are vaccinated. Think of the vaccine card as a boarding card  for a ship. It shows you are entitled to sail away on that vessel.

Florida's SB2006 states "381.00316 COVID-19 vaccine documentation.— 1122 (1) A business entity, as defined in s. 768.38 to include 1123 any business operating in this state, may not require patrons or 1124 customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 1125 vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry 1126 upon, or service from the business operations in this state."

 

It makes no mention of biometrics.  It says documentation, and that sounds like a shot record (or vaccine card) and/or a negative test result.  They even barred schools from asking for proof of vaccination.   

Edited May 4, 2021 by WarfRatWA

[mianmike]

1 hour ago, coffeebean said:

It takes a few days to test positive for Covid once a person is exposed to the virus. 

 

I realize that.  My question was not directed at you. 

[ECCruise]

53 minutes ago, hallux said:

Say what?  I don't know about other states but New York is not taking fingerprints for the RealID-compliant licenses.  Shoot - I have the next step up  (between a passport and the RealID license New York has the Enhanced Driver License) and even for THAT I didn't need to give my fingerprints...

Currently, there are four states—California, Colorado, Georgia, and Texas—that require finger or thumb prints as part of the drivers licensing process.  Two other states—Alabama and Florida—at one time collected thumbprints for at least some portion of their license applicants, but they no longer do so.

I just learned that now.

[PelicanBill]

21 hours ago, cindivan said:

Any flight I have taken recently has pretty good enforcement of mask wearing. Controlled environment, easier for steward to keep an eye on everyone. Minimal eating and drinking. Very different environment and much tougher to enforce these restrictions on a cruise. 

And high air exchange rate on a plane.  On a ship you have more prolonged exposure to others in areas with poor air circulation.  On the Princess ship, it spread even among people in different cabins.

[PelicanBill]

When you buy a cruise from NCL in the US you are dealing with a Florida based subsidiary, which absolutely qualifies as a Florida business.

 

This is going to be some fireworks.

[drew69]

3 hours ago, warburg said:

There is a difference between a vaccine passport and the card you receive when you get the vaccine. The vaccine card contains the same kind of information  as the paper that comes with the flu vaccine.. There is nothing biometric about it. A vaccine passport will contain biometric information  like the driver's license with the star in the right corner. For that license, your fingerprints are taken and filed into a  government database. That is why you can use it for domestic air travel. Showing the vaccine card is just simple proof that you are vaccinated. Think of the vaccine card as a boarding card  for a ship. It shows you are entitled to sail away on that vessel.

Not true at all.  No fingerprint was taken, just additional ID requirements.  Also, most vaccine "passports" have no biometric components.  It is actually just an electronic record. 

[coffeebean]

4 hours ago, mianmike said:

 

I realize that.  My question was not directed at you. 

Oh, sorry about that.

[coffeebean]

21 hours ago, LaCal said:

No way Desantis will lose millions of dollars for Florida by saying Cruise lines can’t mandate guests being vaccinated 

 

Cruise lines can easily sail out of NY, NJ, NOLA, Galveston, Los Angeles, San Diego and San Francisco and say screw Florida 

 

 

 

DeSantis will have to figure out a way to save face.

[njhorseman]

4 hours ago, PelicanBill said:

When you buy a cruise from NCL in the US you are dealing with a Florida based subsidiary, which absolutely qualifies as a Florida business.

 

This is going to be some fireworks.

Under the commerce clause of the Constitution the federal government has sole authority to regulate foreign and interstate commerce. The states have zero authority in these areas, even in the absence of specific federal laws and regulations . I haven't seen public comment by a single lawyer considered an expert in this area of law suggesting that Florida has a reasonably good chance to win the argument. That's why there won't be much in the way of fireworks other than political posturing and false narratives.

Edited May 5, 2021 by njhorseman

[chengkp75]

12 hours ago, PelicanBill said:

On the Princess ship, it spread even among people in different cabins.

Are you saying that it spread from cabin to cabin via the HVAC system?  I'd be interested in the source of that information.

[harkinmr]

11 hours ago, njhorseman said:

Under the commerce clause of the Constitution the federal government has sole authority to regulate foreign and interstate commerce. The states have zero authority in these areas, even in the absence of specific federal laws and regulations . I haven't seen public comment by a single lawyer considered an expert in this area of law suggesting that Florida has a reasonably good chance to win the argument. That's why there won't be much in the way of fireworks other than political posturing and false narratives.

Well said. 

[DCGuy64]

I understand the temptation to look at his EO as political posturing, but I don't think it's solely that. The question of whether to allow vaccine passports or the like is politically fraught and it's still hotly debated in Europe. Furthermore, the Biden Administration has resisted the idea of requiring proof of vaccination, too. So if it IS political posturing, then it's bipartisan.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexledsom/2021/04/15/eu-travel-vaccine-passports-cant-be-requirement-for-travel-says-eu/?sh=4f195a663a9f

This article https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/28/politics/biden-administration-vaccination-passport/index.html mentions that the Federal government IS considering a type of vaccine passport, but here's an important note from that same article, emphasis mine:

"White House press secretary Jen Psaki said Monday there will be no federal mandate requiring every American to obtain a vaccination credential and there will be no centralized universal federal vaccinations database."

IOW I think both DeSantis and Biden are saying they're not against people having proof, they're against people being forced to obtain it. Two different, albeit related, things.