Alaska back on

[Purvis1231]

9 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Which Feds are you referring to? The Carnival brands will be requiring vaccines and I don't see them objecting to much else.

CDC, and EPA appear to have a bias against cruising.. Again I hope cruising resumes soon. 

[ontheweb]

6 minutes ago, Purvis1231 said:

CDC, and EPA appear to have a bias against cruising.. Again I hope cruising resumes soon. 

EPA? How is the Environmental Protection Agency involved?

[Lee Cruiser]

9 hours ago, eroller said:

The President of Carnival Cruise Line made a big deal about proclaiming CCL would not require vaccinations because no other industry requires them, and Carnival carries so many children.  Looks like she is eating those words with these Alaska cruises.  Honestly I don't think any of the lines know what is up or down right now.  It's not entirely their fault of course because much is out of their control, but they may want to refrain from making broad statements that they will regret later.  They end up losing credibility.  

I'm guessing that Alaska cruises carry very few families, especially since they are much more expensive. Probably mostly couples. 

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

Yes, another passed by unanimous consent.

 

When was the last time that happened? I don't even think that there would be 100% consensus that the moon landing was real!!

 

Tom

[LadyMac72]

As one of the people who has an Alaska cruise scheduled for this year, I'm ready to start packing.  We are fully vaccinated and ready to go!

[Sinbadssailors]

I don't think backpedaling is needed.

 

Carnival isn't requiring the vaccine, the ports are.  They will do what the ports require, just as they've always done.

 

But we're just back to waiting on the CDC 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Sinbadssailors

[lobster1313]

11 hours ago, eroller said:

The President of Carnival Cruise Line made a big deal about proclaiming CCL would not require vaccinations because no other industry requires them, and Carnival carries so many children.  Looks like she is eating those words with these Alaska cruises.  Honestly I don't think any of the lines know what is up or down right now.  It's not entirely their fault of course because much is out of their control, but they may want to refrain from making broad statements that they will regret later.  They end up losing credibility.  

That's not correct. They have not said they would not require vaccines. They have have said hopefully not and they shouldn't be required to.

Edited May 21, 2021 by regoodwinjr

[eroller]

16 minutes ago, regoodwinjr said:

That's not correct. They have not said they would not require vaccines. They have have said hopefully not and they shouldn't be required to.

Certainly reads rather definitive to me.  
 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/environmental-health/duffy-indicates-no-plan-vaccine-mandate-carnival-cruise-line

[jsglow]

14 minutes ago, eroller said:

Certainly reads rather definitive to me.  
 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/environmental-health/duffy-indicates-no-plan-vaccine-mandate-carnival-cruise-line

 

Not a correct interpretation in my view.  What Ms. Duffy actually said was that CCL was continuing to negotiate and thought it unfair that cruising had been singled out as an industry.  Of course they don't want a vaccine mandate (or alternatively, crippling restrictions) when no other industry has one. 

[ProgRockCruiser]

28 minutes ago, eroller said:

Certainly reads rather definitive to me.  
 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/environmental-health/duffy-indicates-no-plan-vaccine-mandate-carnival-cruise-line

"We have no current plans for this" =/= "This will never happen"

 

Circumstances changed, they adapted accordingly.

[BlerkOne]

39 minutes ago, eroller said:

Certainly reads rather definitive to me.  
 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/environmental-health/duffy-indicates-no-plan-vaccine-mandate-carnival-cruise-line

That was days ago, before the Alaska bill passed. But the ticket contract is clear - the protocols change and it is the customer's responsibility to check.

[xDisconnections]

15 hours ago, lizord said:

I wonder what Princess and Hollands plans are for guests already booked who can't or won't get the vaccine. I don't think any cruiseline has gotten "permission" from the CDC to sail out of the US.

Simple: their reservation will be canceled without penalty if they do not fulfill the requirements to sail.

[lobster1313]

13 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

That was days ago, before the Alaska bill passed. But the ticket contract is clear - the protocols change and it is the customer's responsibility to check.

The vaccination requirements for Alaskan cruises were probably negotiated prior to Carnival announcing the redeployment of the Miracle.

[BlerkOne]

5 minutes ago, regoodwinjr said:

The vaccination requirements for Alaskan cruises were probably negotiated prior to Carnival announcing the redeployment of the Miracle.

I think likely to avoid having to do test cruises in Alaska. The season will be short enough without having to do non-rev cruises. It might also allow Canada a way to allow some cruise stops, if they want some cruise bucks.

[pc_load_letter]

6 hours ago, ontheweb said:

EPA? How is the Environmental Protection Agency involved?

 

I believe for ocean pollution complaints etc 

[Purvis1231]

9 hours ago, ontheweb said:

EPA? How is the Environmental Protection Agency involved?

Many so called environmentalist believe cruise ships are ruining the oceans.

[BlerkOne]

2 minutes ago, Purvis1231 said:

Many so called environmentalist believe cruise ships are ruining the oceans.

They are, but they are far outnumbered by commercial ships. At least Carnival got rid of a number of older ships and are now building LNG ships 

[ProgRockCruiser]

30 minutes ago, Purvis1231 said:

Many so called environmentalist believe cruise ships are ruining the oceans.

 

27 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

They are, but they are far outnumbered by commercial ships.

The main potential source of ocean pollution from cruise ships is "caused" by the pax they carry: gray/black waters "accidentally" dumped, trash/food waste "accidentally" dumped, etc.

 

Cargo ships have such a small crew their impacts are low in comparison, even if there are so many more cargo ships, plus better implementation of waste controls, apparently.

[Eli_6]

10 hours ago, Lee Cruiser said:

I'm guessing that Alaska cruises carry very few families, especially since they are much more expensive. Probably mostly couples. 

I was planning on booking an Alaskan with kids and husband, but then didn't because of the part about the vax requirement. My husband and I are vaccinated, but my kids are only 7 and 8 so they can't be vaccinated yet. 

[Eli_6]

Back when my husband used to work as a chemical engineer, he would say, "The solution to pollution is dilution."  I really don't think the treated water they release in the gulf of Mexico is hurting anything given its size.  The gulf of Mexico has 643 quadrillion gallons of water and is 12,000 feet deep in places.  

[Eli_6]

Not sure how CCL does everything, but everything on RCL's new ships are recycled: https://www.businessinsider.com/how-symphony-seas-worlds-largest-cruise-ship-deals-with-waste-2020-3

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

 

The main potential source of ocean pollution from cruise ships is "caused" by the pax they carry: gray/black waters "accidentally" dumped, trash/food waste "accidentally" dumped, etc.

 

Cargo ships have such a small crew their impacts are low in comparison, even if there are so many more cargo ships, plus better implementation of waste controls, apparently.

Besides water pollution there is also air pollution, and more. Cargo ships pollute the air more than most countries.

[BlerkOne]

44 minutes ago, Eli_6 said:

Back when my husband used to work as a chemical engineer, he would say, "The solution to pollution is dilution."  I really don't think the treated water they release in the gulf of Mexico is hurting anything given its size.  The gulf of Mexico has 643 quadrillion gallons of water and is 12,000 feet deep in places.  

BP did their best to kill it.

 

Treated water is on thing, but dumping untreated or insufficiently treated is another. But water pollution isn't the only concern.

[Eli_6]

35 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

BP did their best to kill it.

 

Treated water is on thing, but dumping untreated or insufficiently treated is another. But water pollution isn't the only concern.

The Deep Water Horizon incident involved an oil well pumping over 200 million gallons of oil into the gulf non-stop from April to September.  (I practice law in Houston and actually know the attorney who defended BP and did a CLE with him.)  That is not at all comparable to a ship dumping their treated poop water or even someone's plastic straw blowing off the deck.  The Deep Water Horizon situation is considered the worst environmental disaster in US History and substantially bigger than any prior spill anywhere.  Not to mention that 10 or 11 people were killed. There are laws that prevent the cruise ships from dumping untreated water and notably Carnival has paid hefty fines so I suspect at this point they are probably being careful to comply with those laws.  I have lived on the gulf coast for most of my life. I grew up within sight of the water.  I can tell you that unequivocally the water and beaches are substantially cleaner now than they were in the 80s and 90s. 

[BlerkOne]

37 minutes ago, Eli_6 said:

The Deep Water Horizon incident involved an oil well pumping over 200 million gallons of oil into the gulf non-stop from April to September.  (I practice law in Houston and actually know the attorney who defended BP and did a CLE with him.)  That is not at all comparable to a ship dumping their treated poop water or even someone's plastic straw blowing off the deck.  The Deep Water Horizon situation is considered the worst environmental disaster in US History and substantially bigger than any prior spill anywhere.  Not to mention that 10 or 11 people were killed. There are laws that prevent the cruise ships from dumping untreated water and notably Carnival has paid hefty fines so I suspect at this point they are probably being careful to comply with those laws.  I have lived on the gulf coast for most of my life. I grew up within sight of the water.  I can tell you that unequivocally the water and beaches are substantially cleaner now than they were in the 80s and 90s. 

Ships also pollute the air. Light pollution. Sonic pollution. Sun glass pollution. Beaches may be cleaner, sea life may never be the same.