An Issue with Celebrity’s Plan?

[keels81]

Recommended is closer to required than it is to encouraged, so there's that.

 

I still believe that Celebrity will stand true to it's vaccination requirement - they don't cater to families. A VP even said at the MAX they may have 8-percent passengers under the age of 12 (vaccination age threshold) and that's on a very specific sailing like Christmas. If, for some reason, they need to make it work for an extra under-12 kiddo or two to sail with their parents, they can inventory manage the sailing so they keep under that 95-98 requirement.

 

But it was my belief in reading the CSO that if you started with 95-98, you could not switch to open sailing when you felt like it until the CSO expires. 

Edited June 5, 2021 by keels81

[D C]

21 minutes ago, keels81 said:

 

I don't know, but I hope that Celebrity sticks with the 95/98 plan or else I have no problem pulling my cruises. I don't want to cruise with people who willfully don't care about others.

 

Over 60% of adults in the US are vaccinated, a number likely much higher for cruisers. 

The majority of people want vaccinated cruises which are quarantine-proof

 

To reverse course on that is nothing short of sheer idiocy.   Vaccinated people will cancel right and left. 

 

It's as if the RCL CEO looked at the recent problems with nutjobs and masks on airplanes and said "we need to figure out how to get a piece of THAT market segment!" 

 

 

 

[keels81]

1 minute ago, D C said:

To reverse course on that is nothing short of sheer idiocy.   Vaccinated people will cancel right and left. 

 

 

Exactly! I have two on Celebrity this year that are OOP and not FCC, mostly because the thought of a fully vaccinated cruise thrilled me and my better half to no end! He even wants to squeeze in a third cruise, if possible.

 

I also have a girl's trip cruise on the Mardi Gras in October that I was hesitant about, but after today it seems likes Carnival is going the vax-preferred route as well. 

[ipeeinthepool]

7 hours ago, bajathree said:

BINGO....think thats kind of the direction they r going. Like those stupid health questioners you had to fill out at check-in

 

 

I think those stupid health questionnaires might be the path to victory.   Make this a medical issue to determine if you are fit to sail.  Add the vaccination question to a new form.  Have the ship’s doctor authorize the form and if necessary have a nurse ask the questions at the port.  Medical professionals can ask about vaccination status.  Both sides can declare victory.

[lv2cruisgrl]

7 hours ago, keels81 said:

 

Either 1) they need someone to help them word things better or 2) they're leaving it this open for interpretation until they make a definitive decision and determine how many staterooms they're willing to gain/lose.

 

"Those who are unvaccinated" to me speaks to the kiddos under 16/12 that are unable to be vaccinated, as well as those that Fain previously mentioned (religious, medical, etc.). "Or unable to verify vaccination" means that they can't show proof of vaccination, or if it shows that it's fake, etc., you'll have to undergo testing and wear a mask/Tracelet, etc.

 

I don't know, but I hope that Celebrity sticks with the 95/98 plan or else I have no problem pulling my cruises. I don't want to cruise with people who willfully don't care about others.

Get ready, I bet all cruises going out of FL will be using the same language. "Vaccine is highly recommend".  It seems it maybe the only way they can sail without getting fined if they tell passengers they have to have vaccine to cruise.

[JamieLogical]

1 hour ago, lovrccl said:

Get ready, I bet all cruises going out of FL will be using the same language. "Vaccine is highly recommend".  It seems it maybe the only way they can sail without getting fined if they tell passengers they have to have vaccine to cruise.

 

I don't see how this solves the problem. They have to be able to verify vaccination status of 95% of their passengers in order to sail under the CSO (if they forego test sailings as Celebrity is). So if they just "recommend" vaccination, they might not run afoul of FL's law, but then they are right back to running afoul of the CDC. And unlike FL, the CDC actually has the authority to shut down a cruise ship, not just impose fines.

[bajathree]

3 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

I don't see how this solves the problem. They have to be able to verify vaccination status of 95% of their passengers in order to sail under the CSO (if they forego test sailings as Celebrity is). So if they just "recommend" vaccination, they might not run afoul of FL's law, but then they are right back to running afoul of the CDC. And unlike FL, the CDC actually has the authority to shut down a cruise ship, not just impose fines.

Only way Celebrity can cave like Royal has and not require vaccines would be to cancel these early "revenue" sailings and go the test cruise route....and honestly at this rate I would say nothing is off the table

[Papa C]

As for me I think the whole law is garbage. On the basis of "it is a personal choice to be vaccinated" DeSantis wants to ban private business from setting limits on  customers. Can I assume that under this law I no longer need to wear pants in Kroger's? Obviously that would be unsanitary and dangerous to the health of others but it is my personal choice. Face it this is a political move to burnish his credentials with a certain segment of the population . The honor system does not work with people who have no honor. I can find my way to other ports if the cruise lines decide to move operations. 

[kearney]

Keep in mind that Royal and Celebrity are part of the same corporation and the CEO has already indicated that they were following two different strategies. Royal is more family oriented and indicated that they could not meet the 95% threshold..so that they would be following the protocol for <95%... although they expect a high percentage of vaccinated... just not enough to qualify for the reduced restriction. Celebrity on the other hand is more adult oriented.. on the X cruises I have been on there have been few children... so requiring vaccination is relatively easy.. in the US some 75% of older adults are already fully vaccinated. Now the real challenge is how is X going to be able to insure the 95% plus...if they can't get proof of vaccination. I am wondering if the fact that some of the islands visited likely require vaccination... if that could overcome Florida law... now it is an international issue... anyway... I am not a lawyer... but the hang up for X is the Florida law... if they go to court...how long will that take to resolve... I suspect that something must be happening behind the scenes or they would have already gone to court on this.   FYI here is a link to the CEO video from May 30...so it is recent..the RCL changes had to be in his mind as he made this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHd3NBPzdws

[paulh84]

The fine print on the RCI announcement definitely leaves the door open for changes to come also. I wouldn't count them out on eventually requiring a vaccine from those who are eligible for one. 

[Cruising89143]

41 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

The fine print on the RCI announcement definitely leaves the door open for changes to come also. I wouldn't count them out on eventually requiring a vaccine from those who are eligible for one. 

Which is exactly what they stated until very recently. Anyone of age that could get the vaccine must have it in order to board. They have now done a 180. 

[Papa C]

I guess there is another option for the cruise lines. I recently saw a story about a concert promoter who was charging $18 per ticket for vaccinated people and $999 for those who were unvaccinated. After all there may be liability for a line that sails with unvaccinated folks and has an outbreak. The "law" can't set a companies pricing so they would be in compliance with the law and cover themselves.

[wrk2cruise]

Here is another alternative.  CDC recently modified the operations manual to include the following at the Cruise Line discretion.   Just make all indoor venues restricted to fully vaccinated passengers.   Want to take cruise, fine FL will let you board, we will escort you to your stateroom where you can stay for 7 days.  Oh and room service will carry a $6.95 delivery fee waived if you are fully vaccinated.

 

"Cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may designate areas as only accessible to fully vaccinated passengers and crew where masks and physical distancing are not required (e.g., casinos; bars; spas; entertainment venues; and dining areas, including self-serve buffets)."

[graphicguy]

45 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

 

"Cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may designate areas as only accessible to fully vaccinated passengers and crew where masks and physical distancing are not required (e.g., casinos; bars; spas; entertainment venues; and dining areas, including self-serve buffets)."

LOL!  Maybe!  I would think non-vaccinated passengers would want to go the casino, bars, spas, theaters and dining areas, though.  Plus, the non-vaccinated would still have to wear masks outside of their state rooms, regardless. But, as you point out, probably won’t get any non-vaccinated passengers to book as a result.

Edited June 5, 2021 by graphicguy

[abbydancer2003]

16 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

LOL!  Maybe!  I would think non-vaccinated passengers would want to go the casino, bars, spas, theaters and dining areas, though.  Plus, the non-vaccinated would still have to wear masks outside of their state rooms, regardless. But, as you point out, probably won’t get any non-vaccinated passengers to book as a result.

They could do what quarantine hotels do - make the keycard work only once. 

[D C]

1 hour ago, wrk2cruise said:

Here is another alternative.  CDC recently modified the operations manual to include the following at the Cruise Line discretion.   Just make all indoor venues restricted to fully vaccinated passengers.   Want to take cruise, fine FL will let you board, we will escort you to your stateroom where you can stay for 7 days.  Oh and room service will carry a $6.95 delivery fee waived if you are fully vaccinated.

 

"Cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may designate areas as only accessible to fully vaccinated passengers and crew where masks and physical distancing are not required (e.g., casinos; bars; spas; entertainment venues; and dining areas, including self-serve buffets)."

That would be an interesting strategy.   

Proof of vaccination after leaving port.  10 day in-room quarantine period for non-vaccinated.  Problem solved.  🙂

Edited June 5, 2021 by D C

[Keys Kathy]

We are going because of the 95% rule! I have no problem showing them my vax card. I will gladly Volunteer a copy of my card. Even though I have it and am willing to show it to an airline, I still have to wear a mask!

[JamieLogical]

Just now, MCOgirl said:

Do you not believe that your vaccine will work??What's your concern ? Wasn't the purpose of vaccinating to protect yourself...why are you so invested in others making their own personal choice?

 

Um... if unvaccinated people get sick on board and the ship gets diverted and/or quarantined, it definitely becomes my problem!!! Plus, under the current guidelines, if there are unvaccinated people onboard, then cruiselines have to enforce masking and social distancing, which will also put a crimp in my style....

[Papa C]

Vaccination is not only to protect ME but to help get us to herd immunity so that those who are unable (for medical reasons) to be vaccinated can live normal lives and stop this virus. Estimates are that 3.6 to 9 million people have already perished. Most of us would feel more secure on a cruise (at the grocery store, spa, etc)if we reached that level. As someone pointed out the issue may be even multiplied when you consider the ports of call. Again I will listen to science vs political figures when it comes to health precautions. 

[Bluewake]

22 hours ago, D C said:

Agreed. I'm guessing they'll be seeing a lot of cancelations from vaccinated people who don't want to take a chance on a ruined cruise. 

 

Good point.  Some contend that vaccinated passengers shouldn't have any concerns about contracting Covid from non-vaccinated passengers or crew because the vaccine appears to significantly lessen -  albeit not eliminate - that possibility. However,  you and other posters correctly point out the corollary concern that non-vaccinated passengers might contract it in a port (or on the ship) and the cruise would have to be aborted, severe mitigation measures such as quarantines imposed, etc.    Of course, the more non-vaccinated on the ship, the greater the chance of that happening.  I understand that the test cruise process is supposed to prepare the crew for that possibility but I've been involved with a lot of table-top and other exercises to train staff for an emergency situation and I've seen, first-hand, that when the real thing occurs, it can be very different.  We are trying to make the decision as to whether we'll sail if vaccinations are not required. At this point, we are unsure but leaning toward cancelling under the Cruise With Confidence program.

Edited June 6, 2021 by Bluewake

[gcorgain]

Not sure what this means, but the local ABC news in Los Angeles reported that Royal was no longer requiring vaccinations on cruises from Florida and Texas. They quite explicitly said the change was due to state laws that did not allow them to require vaccination. Now, I agree they might have gotten the reasoning wrong, but if they are right that will be a big bummer for Celebrity and other lines that wish to continue requiring vaccinations. 

[Cruising89143]

4 minutes ago, gcorgain said:

Not sure what this means, but the local ABC news in Los Angeles reported that Royal was no longer requiring vaccinations on cruises from Florida and Texas. They quite explicitly said the change was due to state laws that did not allow them to require vaccination. Now, I agree they might have gotten the reasoning wrong, but if they are right that will be a big bummer for Celebrity and other lines that wish to continue requiring vaccinations. 

Watching RCG CEO Richard Fain on a recent video, he explained that they were treating Celebrity/Silverseas different from RCI. RCI carries a lot more families and it would be difficult for RCI to meet the 95% level threshold of vaccinated guests on board. This is why they’re doing the test cruises. With that said they did change what had previously been stated which was anyone old enough to get the vaccine would have to do so in order to sail. Looks like they backed away from that. Not sure if this had to do with the state laws or the fact that they have some very large ships to fill and in the end $$$$$$ talks. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[gcorgain]

I hope it is the larger ships to fill and their demographics. I want to sail but only in vaccinated ships for all the reasons many others have articulated. 

[Justprettynpink]

16 minutes ago, gcorgain said:

Not sure what this means, but the local ABC news in Los Angeles reported that Royal was no longer requiring vaccinations on cruises from Florida and Texas. They quite explicitly said the change was due to state laws that did not allow them to require vaccination. Now, I agree they might have gotten the reasoning wrong, but if they are right that will be a big bummer for Celebrity and other lines that wish to continue requiring vaccinations. 

 

I am not finding anything about Texas banning private business from requiring proof of vaccines. (only a ban of state agencies and state organizations requiring Covid vaccines to receive services).

Edited June 6, 2021 by Justprettynpink

[gcorgain]

The Texas part was news to me as well. As I said, hopefully they got it wrong.