Italy officially bans cruise ships from Venice effective August 1st

[rkacruiser]

6 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

I get the feeling you want a debate/argument.  The authorities are restricting navigation in the Giudecca Canal to help preserve the environment and for safet reasons

 

No interest in an argument!  None whatsoever!  In my posts, I am expressing my thoughts.  

 

Environmental concerns are important to me.  There is also an economic and practical aspect to those concerns.  Whether those concerns are in Italy or in North America.  

 

 

[rkacruiser]

1 minute ago, nocl said:

Venice would probably be happier for it.

 

But, at a cost to the education and enjoyment of those tourists who are learning about Italian culture and history.  

[kazu]

2 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

We are not in total disagreement.  Saving Venice is important.  A multi-day port stop does allow time to visit the city and its islands.  Was mine long enough?  No.  Starting or ending a cruise in Venice that allows a few days for a pre- or post-cruise visit is what would be best for the city and its environs as well as the visitor.

 

But, the practicality!  Long times to get from/to wherever a cruise ship terminal is located!  Transfers by how many different means of transport?   How many guests are going to be willing to put up with such transfer requirements to sail from or arrive at a Venice located port?  

 

Is Venice destined to be a city in Italy where cruise ship guests will no longer be willing to visit?  

 

Wth respect, I disagree.  People travel all the time to Florence from Livorno and to Rome from Civitavecchia.

If the ships are going to dock in Maghera, it’s not that long of a trip to get to Venice.  (That is the port reported on one Eurodam roll call for this October).

 

And, if people are staying post cruise or pre-cruise, I’m sure HAL will offer transfers to help with the handling of luggage.  

the only difference is this is a city that potentially has water for ships to dock.  But that docking and traversing by the ships poses hazards.

 

So, if we want Venice to survive, we need to be a bit willing to travel and be a bit inconvenienced just as people are for other ports.

Thinking Venice is no longer a city people want to visit is saying it’s not equal to to Rome, Florence or even Paris for some (and those people travel further)

 

Personally, I think Venice has nothing to fear and most of their tourism dollars are not in cruise ships but in visitors staying.  Venetians care about their home and we should too.

[kazu]

1 minute ago, rkacruiser said:

 

But, at a cost to the education and enjoyment of those tourists who are learning about Italian culture and history.  

 

I’m sorry but I don’t think you learn as much about Italian culture and history on a quick day trip on a cruise ship versus a stay for a few days when you soak it in.  JMO.

[nocl]

1 minute ago, rkacruiser said:

 

But, at a cost to the education and enjoyment of those tourists who are learning about Italian culture and history.  

Those that are truly interested will make the journey

[nocl]

1 minute ago, kazu said:

 

I’m sorry but I don’t think you learn as much about Italian culture and history on a quick day trip on a cruise ship versus a stay for a few days when you soak it in.  JMO.

just think of all of the missed selfies.

[rkacruiser]

1 minute ago, kazu said:

People travel all the time to Florence from Livorno and to Rome from Civitavecchia.

 

Excellent points.  I have experienced both situations.   I enjoyed seeing the countryside scenery from these cities and, I will admit, such transfers from Point A to Point B in a new-to-me country, is interesting.  But, there is time lost in such transfers when the ship makes the port a one day port call.  I could not get to see what I most desired in Florence because the lines to visit David were so long and I had to get back to the bus so that I could visit the Leaning Tower of Pisa and use the grossest portable potties I have ever encountered!    

[rkacruiser]

10 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

I’m sorry but I don’t think you learn as much about Italian culture and history on a quick day trip on a cruise ship versus a stay for a few days when you soak it in.  JMO.

 

Four years of Latin and still able to read some, learning about Italian history and politics, learning to enjoy Italian cuisine as well as the people with whom I have met:  does this help you to understand a bit more about me?  

 

I don't disagree that a one day "quicky" visit to Venice is very educational for such a visitor.  It's no better than a one day "quicky" visit to the Vatican Museum.  But, is it not better than nothing?  Might it not spark a reason to learn more?  To return again?  

 

 

[kazu]

Just now, rkacruiser said:

 

Four years of Latin and still able to read some, learning about Italian history and politics, learning to enjoy Italian cuisine as well as the people with whom I have met:  does this help you to understand a bit more about me?  

 

I don't disagree that a one day "quicky" visit to Venice is very educational for such a visitor.  It's no better than a one day "quicky" visit to the Vatican Museum.  But, is it not better than nothing?  Might it not spark a reason to learn more?  To return again?  

 

 

 

Sorry but you are not the only one that was trained in Latin nor learned Italian history and politics.  No disrespect but many of us have done that.

 

I’ve never seen a need to state it though.

 

As to your point, Of course, something is better than nothing, but people can still go there.  They just have to travel a bit like Florence, Rome, etc.  If they truly want to learn, then they will make the effort.  

I fail to understand why they wouldn’t travel to Venice but would to Rome, Florence or even Paris.  Each city has their own appeal.

[kazu]

14 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Excellent points.  I have experienced both situations.   I enjoyed seeing the countryside scenery from these cities and, I will admit, such transfers from Point A to Point B in a new-to-me country, is interesting.  But, there is time lost in such transfers when the ship makes the port a one day port call.  I could not get to see what I most desired in Florence because the lines to visit David were so long and I had to get back to the bus so that I could visit the Leaning Tower of Pisa and use the grossest portable potties I have ever encountered!    

 

Florence - do a private tour.  We had not problem seeing David at all but our visits were timed to miss the ships’ tours 😉 

[rkacruiser]

10 minutes ago, kazu said:

Sorry but you are not the only one that was trained in Latin nor learned Italian history and politics.  No disrespect but many of us have done that.

 

I’ve never seen a need to state it though.

 

 

Good evening.  Have a pleasant week-end.  

 

[kazu]

2 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Good evening.  Have a pleasant week-end.  

 

You too 🙂 

[cruisemom42]

51 minutes ago, nocl said:

Those that are truly interested will make the journey

 

Quite true -- even on the Italy Ports of Call forum, the frequent advice given when someone says their reason for a Med cruise is primarily to see Italy, is that they are better off taking a land tour if that is really their goal.

 

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

 

 

I again raise a point that I made earlier.  What's the practicality of the Italian Government's decision?  

 

This seems different to me from previous announcements. Three separate cabinet ministers came together to make the initial announcement (a few weeks ago), and now the prime minister's entire cabinet has approved it. 

 

While the "man at the top" in Italy may change frequently, many of the cabinet ministers and senior advisors remain in place when governments change. 

[KirkNC]

I agree that many will make the trip but we probably would not.  We have spent many a night in Venice including a week once.  After you do that the idea of 2 hours in a bus or train each way for a four hour visit just doesn’t work.  I feel the same way about Paris, Rome and Berlin (but again we have been fortunate to have spend several weeks there). We do still make the trip to Florence from Livorno, something about Florence just resonates with us. 

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

 

 

I again raise a point that I made earlier.  What's the practicality of the Italian Government's decision?  

The issue has been debated and litigated in Italy (and this is their own issue) for many years.   DW and I have spent our share of time in Italy, really enjoy and respect the country, and have a tiny bit of understanding about the issue of Venice.  I completely agree with the decision to ban large cruise ships (we could argue about the 25,000 ton limit) because we have spent enough time in Venice to understand that its very existence is threatened ( not just by cruise ships) and we think it is a city worth saving.   Venice is still there for folks to enjoy but they must now forget the idea of cruising on the Giudecca Canal on a large vessel.  As to the practicality, if the decision helps to preserve Venice then it is a wise decision.   But the reality is that the debate is over, the decision finalized and the world will move on.

 

Hank

 

 

[ontheweb]

11 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

  

 

Is Venice destined to be a city in Italy where cruise ship guests will no longer be willing to visit?  

Possibly. Just like Key West would be if the Florida government respected the wishes of the locals. and those in Venice who want to ban cruise ships have an even better argument, saving the city itself from destruction.

[ontheweb]

10 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Excellent points.  I have experienced both situations.   I enjoyed seeing the countryside scenery from these cities and, I will admit, such transfers from Point A to Point B in a new-to-me country, is interesting.  But, there is time lost in such transfers when the ship makes the port a one day port call.  I could not get to see what I most desired in Florence because the lines to visit David were so long and I had to get back to the bus so that I could visit the Leaning Tower of Pisa and use the grossest portable potties I have ever encountered!    

We did Florence on your own and had no problem seeing David or getting into the 2 major museums as DW had booked timed tickets to them well before the cruise.

 

And of course there was more to see than you could in one day, but it was still a glorious visit. But if seeing the Leaning Tower of Pisa was also something that you just had to do, of course you did not have enough time to be in Florence.

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

So how far away is the new Port from the Airport ??

[chengkp75]

10 minutes ago, Gail & Marty sailing away said:

So how far away is the new Port from the Airport ??

About 12 miles

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

5 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

About 12 miles

Thanks that is not to bad ..

[kevingastreich]

Just got confirmation today from our HAL PCC via phone call that the Eurodam WILL be using Porto Maghera in lieu of "Venice" for the Oct 6-18 2021 cruise. Tenders will be ferrying passengers in to town for excursions etc.

[iancal]

On 7/17/2021 at 6:16 PM, kazu said:

 

I’m sorry but I don’t think you learn as much about Italian culture and history on a quick day trip on a cruise ship versus a stay for a few days when you soak it in.  JMO.

Absolutely agree. 

 

We have done a number of Med cruises that include Italy.   We have also done numerous independent land trips to Italy.

 

Reflecting on this we feel so sorry for those people who only get to Florence for a part of a day.  Same for Cinq Terre, Rome, Amalfi, Venice etc.   These are completely different cities at night.  And in the day when one is not rushing from one place to another. Not time to sit in Campo di Fiori or Piaza Navono over a few glasses of local grape.  Or do the same for a few hours at sunset in Florence or a late dinner in Fiesole.   Dinner in the MDR cannot compare.

 

IMHO, Venice needs to think about Venice first...ahead of the throngs of cruise passengers disembarking from huge ships.   The Italian Government should have done this five years ago but better late than never.

Edited July 27, 2021 by iancal

[Hlitner]

2 hours ago, kevingastreich said:

Just got confirmation today from our HAL PCC via phone call that the Eurodam WILL be using Porto Maghera in lieu of "Venice" for the Oct 6-18 2021 cruise. Tenders will be ferrying passengers in to town for excursions etc.

I think for most cruisers, that is the best option.    The big issue will be whether Italy will be open for cruisers to do their own thing.  A "bubble tour" in Venice would not be a great option and its difficult to even imagine how it would work.  Venice is a city just made for walking and exploring (on your own).  While an excursion is fine for seeing certain specific sites, to truly get the most out of this city one need to wander some of the streets.

 

Hank

[VMax1700]

9 hours ago, kevingastreich said:

Just got confirmation today from our HAL PCC via phone call that the Eurodam WILL be using Porto Maghera in lieu of "Venice" for the Oct 6-18 2021 cruise. Tenders will be ferrying passengers in to town for excursions etc.

Did the PCC mention about embarkation etc?  Seriously considering booking this cruise and have booked hotel in Mestre for pre cruise.  Have you heard if we would need to make our own way to Marghera or will HAL assemble embarkees (sp?) in the passenger terminal on Venice Island?