Covid on Iona

[Interestedcruisefan]

1 minute ago, Bobblehat71 said:

These longer cruises are a gamble for passengers and cruise lines. 

 

How many of us would volunteer to be tested if we woke up with the sniffles on Day 2 of a 14 night cruise?  Not many I suspect 😶

And assuming you don't have a test would you self isolate voluntarily or carry on cruising as normal?

 

I suspect most would carry on as normal being honest until they became too ill to carry on as normal

 

But on a cruise thats s recipe for it to become a superspreader

 

And a superspreader leads to deaths on board

[terrierjohn]

51 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Thank you - that is the point that I am trying to make.

If you are tested positive, the cruise line cannot assume you will only have mild  symptoms,  and therefore has no option but to offload you.

The point of contention is what should happen to the travelling companion of the infected person.

The UK is showing some 8m cases and 137,000 deaths, with 550,000 hospitalizations, so I assume the other 7.5 m were mild cases,  which gives a figure of 93% were mild cases, or do you doubt the national data.

[Megabear2]

46 minutes ago, Bobblehat71 said:

If Portugal/ Lisbon continue to insist on passenger testing before disembarking then most are going to to stay on board. Why would you take the risk of ruining a 2 week holiday for the sake of one day in port. Other than staying in your cabin for two weeks there's no way of avoiding an infected passenger on board. Its also likely that if are infected you may not even know it and would just be taking a gamble every time you took an onboard test.  

With people thinking like this maybe P&O should follow other companies and test everyone on board every few days. It is surely irresponsible to get off at some ports but avoid those where you have to take a test even though you may have been exposed and carrying the virus?

[Harry Peterson]

19 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

As I am going to be in the market for a new travel insurance policy in November I am going to start speaking with a lot of insurers today - I have a ski holiday booked for Christmas time and need to add winter sports to our policies so it's not just about the cruise issue. However  I intend to ask the question of the insurance companies about offloading someone who does not have a positive Covid test from a cruise ship into quarantine at the same time and will post any relevant answers here later if it would be helpful?

Unfortunately, you’ll need to check -  and interpret - the actual terms and conditions of each policy rather than relying on telephone conversations.  There are hugely grey areas involved here - exactly the situation for disputed claims.

 

I don’t think I had a response to my question to our P&O representative asking whether P&O would pick up the tab in the event of an insurer refusing to.  If they aren’t prepared to do that, I suspect business is going to drop off a cliff once word spreads about this.

[Marmaduke]

22 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

As I am going to be in the market for a new travel insurance policy in November I am going to start speaking with a lot of insurers today - I have a ski holiday booked for Christmas time and need to add winter sports to our policies so it's not just about the cruise issue. However  I intend to ask the question of the insurance companies about offloading someone who does not have a positive Covid test from a cruise ship into quarantine at the same time and will post any relevant answers here later if it would be helpful?

It would certainly be very helpful to know what answers you receive from the various insurance companies.

In a previous post you mentioned that the insurance you have though your bank account is changing in November so I guess that you, like us are with Lloyds.  I would certainly be interested to know what Allianz  have to say about Covid and cruising in general as I can find no specific mention of cruising anywhere in the details we received from the bank.

[Megabear2]

Good news Marmaduke! I already asked on 24/9:

 

QUOTE

 

Good afternoon.

 

I do hope you are well and I hope you have a lovely birthday tomorrow.

 

As discussed your Lloyds Ultimate Reward travel insurance WILL cover for yourself for your cruise.

 

Whilst there is no specific mention of Cruise cover in the insurance guides we do cover trips that include cruise travel, however it does have its limitations.

 

If you require coverage for missed ports or missed shore experiences for example, you would need to purchase a cruise specific policy.

 

Also should you fall ill or subject to compulsory quarantine by a treating doctor due to Covid-19, we would cover any additional reasonable transport and accommodation costs. Contact the emergency medical line asap should you be in this situation.

 

We would also pay for the transport (flights) home if necessary and authorised by the medical team.

 

I do hope this helps and should you have any further queries do not hesitate to contact myself or our offices.

 

Kind regards.

 

UNQUOTE 

 

Unfortunately Allianz will not cover my OH's medical conditions and unlike AXA do not sell single policies, hence my need to find an alternative when this and my OH's current Staysure policy renews in November. You'll note I'd already asked about quarantine, but not unfortunately the non positive test element. 

[Megabear2]

16 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Unfortunately, you’ll need to check -  and interpret - the actual terms and conditions of each policy rather than relying on telephone conversations.  There are hugely grey areas involved here - exactly the situation for disputed claims.

 

I don’t think I had a response to my question to our P&O representative asking whether P&O would pick up the tab in the event of an insurer refusing to.  If they aren’t prepared to do that, I suspect business is going to drop off a cliff once word spreads about this.

Have no fear, I read every insurance policy of any type with a fine tooth comb, not just speak to operators.  You can't spend 41 years living with an insurance professional without realising you can make absolutely no assumptions on cover!  If I spot what I think is a glaring hole I always speak to the companies and either record my conversation with names etc.  or ask them to put it in writing.  Even when buying house or car insurance policies which should be fairly standard I have been "trained" to take this approach !

[pete14]

8 minutes ago, Marmaduke said:

It would certainly be very helpful to know what answers you receive from the various insurance companies.

In a previous post you mentioned that the insurance you have though your bank account is changing in November so I guess that you, like us are with Lloyds.  I would certainly be interested to know what Allianz  have to say about Covid and cruising in general as I can find no specific mention of cruising anywhere in the details we received from the bank.

Harry is correct. In any case of dispute, the published terms and conditions will be the arbiter of success. Any phone conversations with a sales rep trying to sell you a policy or indeed somebody in a more supervisory position will be worth little.

The problem of course in these extraordinary times is that it is likely that there will be changes to terms and conditions during the course of the policy as the virus changes and as various countries adapt their rules to match. Some will be very much in the insured’s favour but some may not, what is said today may be different tomorrow. Add government change to this uncertainty and it only makes the situation worse, not just for us but also the tour companies and cruise operators who have to navigate around this ever changing uncertainty.

[Bobblehat71]

27 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

With people thinking like this maybe P&O should follow other companies and test everyone on board every few days. It is surely irresponsible to get off at some ports but avoid those where you have to take a test even though you may have been exposed and carrying the virus?

 

Thats a nice idea , but how many of us would book a cruise knowing that at anytime it throw off the ship. Getting tested at the Southampton is stressful enough without having to worry about getting tested every couple of days on board.

[Stokie33]

2 minutes ago, Bobblehat71 said:

 

Thats a nice idea , but how many of us would book a cruise knowing that at anytime it throw off the ship. Getting tested at the Southampton is stressful enough without having to worry about getting tested every couple of days on board.

Having been on Iona on the 11/09 and finding out that some passengers had come straight off MSC virtuoso I would of preferred to have regular testing whilst on board, as according to the MSC board there were quite a few COVID cases on the cruise ending the 11/09.  Unfortunately human nature is it won’t happen to me and some people weren’t prepared to abide by the cruise ship guidelines of 7 days between cruises like we did. Unless you have regular testing people are not going to volunteer to do a test if they have any symptoms and with COVID who knows what the symptoms will be as it seems different for most people

[Interestedcruisefan]

45 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

With people thinking like this maybe P&O should follow other companies and test everyone on board every few days. It is surely irresponsible to get off at some ports but avoid those where you have to take a test even though you may have been exposed and carrying the virus?

The cruise lines really done want to have to deal with the results they would get and the problems the results would cause in my honest opinion 

 

The resulting fallout would damage them too much in too many ways if they went looking for positives

 

I feel cruise lines are doing the minimum they have to do just to get by and avoid any bad publicity

 

And getting away with it so far

 

With the longer overseas cruises they will come unstuck though and sooner or later mainstream media will pick up on it

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Interestedcruisefan

[Son of Bare]

53 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

The UK is showing some 8m cases and 137,000 deaths, with 550,000 hospitalizations, so I assume the other 7.5 m were mild cases,  which gives a figure of 93% were mild cases, or do you doubt the national data.

TJ you are probably right not to doubt the national data, but your assumption that because 'only' 550,000 of those 8m were hospitalised the remaining cases were mild is a little askew or at the very least open to interpretation when deciding what defines 'mild' in medical parlance.

[Bobblehat71]

13 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

The cruise lines really done want to have to deal with the results they would get and the problems the results would cause in my honest opinion 

 

The resulting fallout would damage them too much in too many ways if they went looking for positives

 

I feel cruise lines are doing the minimum they have to do just to get by and avoid any bad publicity

 

And getting away with it so far

 

With the longer overseas cruises they will come unstuck though and sooner or later mainstream media will pick up on it

 

 

 

 

To be fair the the cruise lines I think its more a case of doing as much as they can without making Cruises completely unpalatable or unviable. 

If it was just about keeping passengers safe and ships covid free then there would regular onboard testing, compulsory  face mask wearing everywhere, 2m social distancing , no independent disembarking at ports, no buffet, no theatre entertainment etc etc.  No one is going to be booking that.   

Covid is not going way and ultimately it will be down to the customer to choose if they are willing to take the risk of catching Covid .. If you cant take that risk because of an underlying health condition, then it maybe that you will have to stop cruising. 

I appreciate that sounds pretty harsh but even if Cruise lines could totally eliminate the risk of catching Covid , would they do it at the expense of the 99% of passengers who are unlikely to be effected by it? I don't think so.

[Son of Bare]

For all those people who are now frantically calling their insurance brokers and checking the small print of their policies, I can tell you that when my partner was evacuated alongside of me to spend 3 weeks in Norwegian hotel while I was being treated in a Norwegian hospital in 2019, our insurers Cover for You picked up the bill including every single penny of my partners expenses. 

This time around, for medical reasons, we've chosen to go with Staysure but would thoroughly recommend every aspect of the service provided to us by C4Y.

 

 

[Interestedcruisefan]

8 minutes ago, Bobblehat71 said:

 

To be fair the the cruise lines I think its more a case of doing as much as they can without making Cruises completely unpalatable or unviable. 

If it was just about keeping passengers safe and ships covid free then there would regular onboard testing, compulsory  face mask wearing everywhere, 2m social distancing , no independent disembarking at ports, no buffet, no theatre entertainment etc etc.  No one is going to be booking that.   

Covid is not going way and ultimately it will be down to the customer to choose if they are willing to take the risk of catching Covid .. If you cant take that risk because of an underlying health condition, then it maybe that you will have to stop cruising. 

I appreciate that sounds pretty harsh but even if Cruise lines could totally eliminate the risk of catching Covid , would they do it at the expense of the 99% of passengers who are unlikely to be effected by it? I don't think so.

The thing is by not doing the things that would make the cruise unpalatable as you rightly state above

 

It means they aren't left doing much at all of the things that would keep Covid risk down

 

Meaning you and I are are pretty much agreeing they are doing the minimum they can get away with 

 

Just wording it differently I think

 

And we both understand why they are doing it

 

I just personally think long term it's going to catch them out. 

 

Tbh they can't win either way

 

 

[Manx buoy]

1 hour ago, Marmaduke said:

It would certainly be very helpful to know what answers you receive from the various insurance companies.

In a previous post you mentioned that the insurance you have though your bank account is changing in November so I guess that you, like us are with Lloyds.  I would certainly be interested to know what Allianz  have to say about Covid and cruising in general as I can find no specific mention of cruising anywhere in the details we received from the bank.

Allianz insurance

Edited October 8, 2021 by Manx buoy

[Dermotsgirl]

26 minutes ago, Bobblehat71 said:

 

To be fair the the cruise lines I think its more a case of doing as much as they can without making Cruises completely unpalatable or unviable. 

If it was just about keeping passengers safe and ships covid free then there would regular onboard testing, compulsory  face mask wearing everywhere, 2m social distancing , no independent disembarking at ports, no buffet, no theatre entertainment etc etc.  No one is going to be booking that.   

Covid is not going way and ultimately it will be down to the customer to choose if they are willing to take the risk of catching Covid .. If you cant take that risk because of an underlying health condition, then it maybe that you will have to stop cruising. 

I appreciate that sounds pretty harsh but even if Cruise lines could totally eliminate the risk of catching Covid , would they do it at the expense of the 99% of passengers who are unlikely to be effected by it? I don't think so.

I don’t understand why 99 % of passengers ‘unlikely to be affected by Covid’ ? 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Dermotsgirl

[Megabear2]

15 minutes ago, Son of Bare said:

For all those people who are now frantically calling their insurance brokers and checking the small print of their policies, I can tell you that when my partner was evacuated alongside of me to spend 3 weeks in Norwegian hotel while I was being treated in a Norwegian hospital in 2019, our insurers Cover for You picked up the bill including every single penny of my partners expenses. 

This time around, for medical reasons, we've chosen to go with Staysure but would thoroughly recommend every aspect of the service provided to us by C4Y.

 

 

I have now commenced my reading of policies Covid/curtailment sections with follow up calls to ask the specific questionsnt as follows:

 

1. Where in your policy will I find the clause covering enforced quarantine by a local port or Government if I personally do not have a positive test but my travelling companion does?

 

2. If there is no specific clause in your policy covering this, how would you deal with the issue?

 

The first four companies have said the person who does not have a positive test would not be covered. If however during quarantine they do test positive the case would be reconsidered by the claims department and most definitely would be covered from that point.

 

The next two, who are actually under the same ownership, said it would be considered on a case by case basis only with no definite policy.

 

I have seven others to go.

 

As an aside has anyone else noticed how quickly companies are answering the telephone now furlough has officially ended!!!

[terrierjohn]

59 minutes ago, Son of Bare said:

TJ you are probably right not to doubt the national data, but your assumption that because 'only' 550,000 of those 8m were hospitalised the remaining cases were mild is a little askew or at the very least open to interpretation when deciding what defines 'mild' in medical parlance.

If they were not hospitalized then they did not require critical hospital care, so would have been perfectly safe in the quarantine zone of the ship. Which was the basis of my argument against them being forcibly made to go into a foreign quarantine hotel.

[Rebjon]

12 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

I have now commenced my reading of policies Covid/curtailment sections with follow up calls to ask the specific questionsnt as follows:

 

1. Where in your policy will I find the clause covering enforced quarantine by a local port or Government if I personally do not have a positive test but my travelling companion does?

 

2. If there is no specific clause in your policy covering this, how would you deal with the issue?

 

The first four companies have said the person who does not have a positive test would not be covered. If however during quarantine they do test positive the case would be reconsidered by the claims department and most definitely would be covered from that point.

 

The next two, who are actually under the same ownership, said it would be considered on a case by case basis only with no definite policy.

 

I have seven others to go.

 

As an aside has anyone else noticed how quickly companies are answering the telephone now furlough has officially ended!!!

Re. your remarks about answering the phone - does that include P&O I wonder? Thanks for the work you are doing on insurance policies.

[Megabear2]

7 minutes ago, LynnForestgate said:

 

what do you mean by this ?

 

.

That hopefully the companies have taken their staff back on and not made them redundant 

[Dermotsgirl]

2 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

If they were not hospitalized then they did not require critical hospital care, so would have been perfectly safe in the quarantine zone of the ship. Which was the basis of my argument against them being forcibly made to go into a foreign quarantine hotel.

Covid can make people unpleasantly ill for two to three weeks, even if they don’t need hospital care. On the longer cruises, like the 35 night Ventura cruises to the Caribbean, , I’m not sure if it would be practical to have a chunk of ill passengers needing room service and monitoring to make sure they didn’t take a turn for the worse mid Atlantic 

 

I think, as a forum, we were lulled into a sense of false security by the idea of isolation cabins. This Iona situation is a wake up call. If we don’t like the thought on being offloaded in an overseas port due to catching a virus that is circulating in a global pandemic (so a fairly high chance of catching it) or even being a close contact of someone who has the virus - then we don’t cruise.

 

However, it remains disappointing that P&O didn’t make this clear before people paid their final balances for upcoming cruises 

[davecttr]

28 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

I have now commenced my reading of policies Covid/curtailment sections with follow up calls to ask the specific questionsnt as follows:

 

1. Where in your policy will I find the clause covering enforced quarantine by a local port or Government if I personally do not have a positive test but my travelling companion does?

 

2. If there is no specific clause in your policy covering this, how would you deal with the issue?

 

The first four companies have said the person who does not have a positive test would not be covered. If however during quarantine they do test positive the case would be reconsidered by the claims department and most definitely would be covered from that point.

 

The next two, who are actually under the same ownership, said it would be considered on a case by case basis only with no definite policy.

 

I have seven others to go.

 

As an aside has anyone else noticed how quickly companies are answering the telephone now furlough has officially ended!!!

When you have completed the survey are you going to tell us the results including names of companies?

 

I remember when the staycation cruises started, insurance companies did not cover it. Then one did and the others soon changed their stance. Danger of losing business I guess. This may happen in the case of companions quarantining. How will they handle this? The underwriter will calculate the risk and the premium will increase.

[davecttr]

20 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

If they were not hospitalized then they did not require critical hospital care, so would have been perfectly safe in the quarantine zone of the ship. Which was the basis of my argument against them being forcibly made to go into a foreign quarantine hotel.

They may go to bed feeling a bit off and wake up struggling to breathe. Better to be offloaded  just in case.

[Megabear2]

I can do that but with the proviso everyone should check for themselves with their insurer and not rely on my questions and reading!  It's for individuals to be happy with their cover  I just happen to be in the market at this exact time for a new policy!

Edited October 8, 2021 by Megabear2
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