Covid on Iona

[tring]

2 hours ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

That's the way it's heading 

 

Passengers will want to avoid being tested

 

That won't harm the cruise lines either as it prevents the Covid figures coming out

 

But for any longer cruises all thats  going to do  is lead to lots more superspreader cruises and at some stage entire ships having to be tested and quarantined

 

And more deaths actually on board the ships

 

Shorter cruises will get away with it

 

Longer cruises will not

 

The longer cruises actually need to identify positive cases and get them off the boat asap

 

We returned from a two week Spanish Cruise on Tuesday, with Fred who has been doing some cruises of more than a week long for a couple of months now, including his first international cruise mid August.

 

If a cruise lasts more than a week there is a mandatory covid test mid cruise on that cruise line, though I suspect that may not be necessary if there was a need for tests for specific port visits during that time, (not the case for our cruise).  As it was a cruise requirement, rather than a port requirement, we were not charged for that test, but everyone was tested on the same day.  The crew are also tested weekly and always have been.  As all cruise lines are following the same guidelines, that may well be how things will work when the Carnival cruise lines get into regular longer cruises, rather than their summer ones which, I think, were all no longer than one week.

 

Regards testing required by ports, do we actually know that will only be needed for people who are wanting to leave the ship in certain ports, or will it be required for all people on the ship, before it enters their waters (as is often the case with yellow fever certificates and visas for instance).  I do not know the answer to that myself, but would be interested in where that information may have been published, if it has been.

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by tring

[davecttr]

1 minute ago, Megabear2 said:

I can do that but with the proviso everyone should check for themselves with their insurer and not rely on my questions and reading!  It's for individuals to be happy with their cover  I just happen to be in the maryat this exact time for a new policy!

Yes, I understand your reasoning. In my past life I had something to do with computers. People were asking would I recommend the computer I was using. No I said, I find it very good but if I recommended it and you did not like it I would get the blame. Same with insurance!

 

 

[Ardennais]

14 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

Covid can make people unpleasantly ill for two to three weeks, even if they don’t need hospital care. On the longer cruises, like the 35 night Ventura cruises to the Caribbean, , I’m not sure if it would be practical to have a chunk of ill passengers needing room service and monitoring to make sure they didn’t take a turn for the worse mid Atlantic 

 

I think, as a forum, we were lulled into a sense of false security by the idea of isolation cabins. This Iona situation is a wake up call. If we don’t like the thought on being offloaded in an overseas port due to catching a virus that is circulating in a global pandemic (so a fairly high chance of catching it) or even being a close contact of someone who has the virus - then we don’t cruise.

 

However, it remains disappointing that P&O didn’t make this clear before people paid their final balances for upcoming cruises 

That sums it perfectly! 

[Harry Peterson]

19 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

I can do that but with the proviso everyone should check for themselves with their insurer and not rely on my questions and reading!  It's for individuals to be happy with their cover  I just happen to be in the market at this exact time for a new policy!

I'm glad you make that point. Obviously the work you're putting in, and the feedback here, is appreciated, but travel insurance in particular is a minefield at the moment. Policies can and do vary from person to person, and even from one day to the next. They're constantly evolving, and a policy issued by XYZ Ltd on 8 October may have very different terms and exclusions just one day later.

 

The costs here could be substantial, with every incentive for an insurer to look for reasons not to pay - nothing replaces checking very carefully the precise terms of your own policy (not the policy summary) to ensure that it covers these potential costs.

[Son of Bare]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

I have now commenced my reading of policies Covid/curtailment sections with follow up calls to ask the specific questionsnt as follows:

 

1. Where in your policy will I find the clause covering enforced quarantine by a local port or Government if I personally do not have a positive test but my travelling companion does?

 

2. If there is no specific clause in your policy covering this, how would you deal with the issue?

 

The first four companies have said the person who does not have a positive test would not be covered. If however during quarantine they do test positive the case would be reconsidered by the claims department and most definitely would be covered from that point.

 

The next two, who are actually under the same ownership, said it would be considered on a case by case basis only with no definite policy.

 

I have seven others to go.

 

As an aside has anyone else noticed how quickly companies are answering the telephone now furlough has officially ended!!!

When I was evacuated with cardiac issues my partner was as fit as a fiddle (and would probably have made a decent fist of swimming to the next port if neccessary 😆). My health status was obviously not transmissible and as I've already said our policy covered her expenses and the entirety of our claim. 

 

If an insurer specifically covers an illness such as Covid but delineates it from other illnesses such that they attempt not to cover the expenses of the healthy (negative) travellers on a policy in the way they would do other conditions that require evacuation then I would say they are trading on very dodgy ground.

 

If all duo or larger parties of private travellers take out one policy rather than individual policies and make sure Covid is not specifically excluded, I wouldn't fret over Covid being treated as a separate entity from any other condition unless your policy specifically and clearly states that.

 

[Son of Bare]

1 hour ago, terrierjohn said:

If they were not hospitalized then they did not require critical hospital care, so would have been perfectly safe in the quarantine zone of the ship. Which was the basis of my argument against them being forcibly made to go into a foreign quarantine hotel.

With which I concur.

I was pointing out that to say every non hospitalised case of Covid was a 'mild' illness is folly.

Non critical does not imply mild. Quite aside from that there have been many instances of patients who needed hospitalisation when that option wasn't avaliable to them. 

[wowzz]

The cruise lines are basically on a hiding to nothing. Terrierjohnis probably right about 90% or so of Covid cases only being "mild", but as has been stated, mild can vary from a headache for two  days to three weeks in bed.

The cruise lines have to work on the worst case scenario - they would open themselves to serious litigation if they did not do so - and therefore it is inevitable that Covid patients will be off loaded. 

The issue  is that this policy was never clearly stated , hence the current furore regarding the Iona incident.  

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, davecttr said:

They may go to bed feeling a bit off and wake up struggling to breathe. Better to be offloaded  just in case.

Why then have P&O made such an issue of the increased quarantine areas if they intended disembarking anyone that tested positive?

[jeanlyon]

On the news last evening, it was stated that 99% of hospitalised patients in our hospitals are unvaccinated which rather makes it clear that even if you do get it, it is likely to be mild.  As you can't cruise unless vaccinated, I can't see why you need to be offloaded when you can quarantine on board.

 

Makes me even more sure that my April cruise will be moved to 2023!

[Interestedcruisefan]

30 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Why then have P&O made such an issue of the increased quarantine areas if they intended disembarking anyone that tested positive?

You can't disembark instantly can you ?

 

 

 

 

[terrierjohn]

2 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

You can't disembark instantly can you ?

 

 

 

 

I don't see the relevance of that comment.

However I don't think that was case here, and when on a Med or Canaries cruise, there is rarely more than one sea day between ports, except on the start or end of the cruise, and if the pre cruise testing was correct it's hardly likely anyone would fall ill on the first 3 days, and on the last 2 days the next port would be Southampton anyway.

[Dermotsgirl]

I see a lot of comment on the forum about assumptions that the double vaccinated have 'mild Covid'.

 

However, when I see comments elsewhere from double vaxxed people who contracted Covid, the overriding sentiment is, 'thank God I had the vax, I dread to think how much worse it would have been otherwise'

 

I saw this article, which seems to be a typical experience.  It's from the USA, but many people from the UK say the same, including younger people like the author of this piece.

 

https://editorials24.com/2021/10/what-its-like-to-have-a-breakthrough-covid-infection/

 

To be honest I wouldn't fancy going through any of it in a cabin on board a ship or in an isolation hotel in Cadiz, St Kitts or anywhere else.  It'd be bad enough at home, but being stuck miles from home - imagine how miserable and scary that would be 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Dermotsgirl

[Megabear2]

Well that's me done! I must emphasise this is purely based on my own personal circumstances alone, and not intended as a review of insurance policies for anyone else. I accept no responsibility if you get my meaning!

 

The information I have collected is as follows:

 

Cover for You - no cover for the person without a positive test.  Possible abandonment claim to cancellation maximum  but decided case by case.

 

Staysure  - no specific policy - referred to Clause 14 on pages 30-32 of their policy. Normally will not cover quarantine.

 

Avanti - identical to Staysure as they are under same ownership.

 

Good to Go - No cover for quarantine - possible abandonment to policy cancellation maximum at underwriter's discretion. 

 

All Clear - No quarantine cover but Platinum policy would pay out maximum £2,000 for abandonment.

 

Saga - case by case only.

 

Post Office - No cover offered for any Covid related situations.

 

Aviva - All medical cover fully covered for positive test. The non positive person would be covered under abandonment up to £5,000.

 

LV - No quarantine cover, positive testing person covered fully under medical section.

 

ABTA Travelsure (AXA) - No quarantine cover, positive test required for both parties. Possible abandonment claim on case by case basis.

 

Insurefor.com - No (these people have dreadful reviews and a whole page dedicated to them on MSE, probably not one for cruisers!)

 

Holiday Extras - now this is REALLY INTERESTING!  They confirmed that 72 hours ago the answer was as I had been previously told but they have received loads of calls on this scenario over the past 48 hours (I wonder why???) and have passed the questions up the line to their underwriters (Great Lakes) and their insurer, Taurus, and these two are apparently going to look at the situation. They have apparently a list of people who want answers on this issue and have added me to it.  I am told I should hear back in 3-4 days.

 

I have not bought a policy to cover cruising today, but did take out a single trip winter sports cover for a week with Cover For You.  I will wait for now on the cruise cover as we are still covered until November on existing policies which unfortunately we could not add the ski trip to as the insurer is changing.

 

 

 

 

[Interestedcruisefan]

1 hour ago, terrierjohn said:

I don't see the relevance of that comment.

However I don't think that was case here, and when on a Med or Canaries cruise, there is rarely more than one sea day between ports, except on the start or end of the cruise, and if the pre cruise testing was correct it's hardly likely anyone would fall ill on the first 3 days, and on the last 2 days the next port would be Southampton anyway.

I see the quarantine cabins as the way cruise lines can try and protect the rest of the passengers from catching covid

 

Effectively once you test positive for covid your cruise holiday is all over let's be honest. 

 

Immediately they find someone with positive Covid they need to quarantine them and close contacts to protect the rest of the ship

 

If they can disembark them port of call then I believe thats the responsible thing to do for all concerned

 

Although there are medical staff on every cruise they have enough to worry about without having to start monitoring and treating Covid on top

 

 

[Interestedcruisefan]

3 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Well that's me done! I must emphasise this is purely based on my own personal circumstances alone, and not intended as a review of insurance policies for anyone else. I accept no responsibility if you get my meaning!

 

The information I have collected is as follows:

 

Cover for You - no cover for the person without a positive test.  Possible abandonment claim to cancellation maximum  but decided case by case.

 

Staysure  - no specific policy - referred to Clause 14 on pages 30-32 of their policy. Normally will not cover quarantine.

 

Avanti - identical to Staysure as they are under same ownership.

 

Good to Go - No cover for quarantine - possible abandonment to policy cancellation maximum at underwriter's discretion. 

 

All Clear - No quarantine cover but Platinum policy would pay out maximum £2,000 for abandonment.

 

Saga - case by case only.

 

Post Office - No cover offered for any Covid related situations.

 

Aviva - All medical cover fully covered for positive test. The non positive person would be covered under abandonment up to £5,000.

 

LV - No quarantine cover, positive testing person covered fully under medical section.

 

ABTA Travelsure (AXA) - No quarantine cover, positive test required for both parties. Possible abandonment claim on case by case basis.

 

Insurefor.com - No (these people have dreadful reviews and a whole page dedicated to them on MSE, probably not one for cruisers!)

 

Holiday Extras - now this is REALLY INTERESTING!  They confirmed that 72 hours ago the answer was as I had been previously told but they have received loads of calls on this scenario over the past 48 hours (I wonder why???) and have passed the questions up the line to their underwriters (Great Lakes) and their insurer, Taurus, and these two are apparently going to look at the situation. They have apparently a list of people who want answers on this issue and have added me to it.  I am told I should hear back in 3-4 days.

 

I have not bought a policy to cover cruising today, but did take out a single trip winter sports cover for a week with Cover For You.  I will wait for now on the cruise cover as we are still covered until November on existing policies which unfortunately we could not add the ski trip to as the insurer is changing.

 

 

 

 

If and when insurers take on all the risk for positives, quarantine and partners and flights home etc then the price is going to sky rocket 

 

It has to

 

It's going to be happening too often for it not to

[Megabear2]

21 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

If and when insurers take on all the risk for positives, quarantine and partners and flights home etc then the price is going to sky rocket 

Personally I would rather pay and have comfort at the point of purchase. I do not wish to become involved in fights at a time when either one of mine or myself are ill.  I also want to know as near possible what I should expect to happen and what costs I personally may become liable for. 

 

Incidentally regarding policies changing terms, most of the companies had various versions of their policies with issue date so you could clearly see your terms at your date of purchase. That was very helpful as one or two had minor adjustments in the past week or so with UK Government rules having been reviewed.

[jeanlyon]

It's a nightmare frankly.  I shall be going nowhere on a ship with all this going on.

 

By the way is anyone else having the problem that when they try to post, they get all the other posts in their box where they type?  I have to log out and in again to clear it.

[davecttr]

2 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

Why then have P&O made such an issue of the increased quarantine areas if they intended disembarking anyone that tested positive?

Dunno, ask P&O

[Angel57]

35 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

It's a nightmare frankly.  I shall be going nowhere on a ship with all this going on.

 

By the way is anyone else having the problem that when they try to post, they get all the other posts in their box where they type?  I have to log out and in again to clear it.

I also get that problem intermittently altho not had it for a few days.

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, jeanlyon said:

It's a nightmare frankly.  I shall be going nowhere on a ship with all this going on.

 

By the way is anyone else having the problem that when they try to post, they get all the other posts in their box where they type?  I have to log out and in again to clear it.

Annoying Jean, isn't it.

[davecttr]

3 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Annoying Jean, isn't it.

My current irritation is all the topics occasionally changing to 'read' halfway through them

[funinhounslow]

4 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

Why then have P&O made such an issue of the increased quarantine areas if they intended disembarking anyone that tested positive?

“Quarantine” is the practice of separating and restricting the movement of people who were exposed to a contagious disease to see if they become sick.

 

If you test positive by definition you aren’t in quarantine. 

[terrierjohn]

15 minutes ago, funinhounslow said:

“Quarantine” is the practice of separating and restricting the movement of people who were exposed to a contagious disease to see if they become sick.

 

If you test positive by definition you aren’t in quarantine. 

Semantics.

[funinhounslow]

8 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Semantics.

Definitely not semantics. 
 

Quarantine - restricting movement of people who may have been infected to monitor symptoms 

 

Isolation - separation of infected people to prevent the spread of disease. 
 

How many isolation cabins do P&O have?

 

Dismissing the difference as “semantics” could lead to you being turfed off your cruise looking for a place to isolate 

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by funinhounslow

[Son of Bare]

2 minutes ago, funinhounslow said:

Definitely not semantics. 
 

Quarantine - restricting movement of people who may have been infected to monitor symptoms 

 

Isolation - separation of infected people to prevent the spread of disease. 
 

Dismissing the difference as “semantics” could lead to you being turfed off your cruise looking for a place to isolate 

Bang on FIH.

Why didn't I think of that...the devious little gets.

 

So can we to assume PO are going to eject anyone who tests positive at the first opportunity?