What type of "Service Dog" is this?

[FireEMT978]

Yeah, I know I will get people mad. Don't Care! What type of service dog is this? During our past week on the Oasis, we had a couple with a Yorkie "Service dog", with the fake "Credentials". How do I know this, you ask. Well, the fact that this dog was in a stroller, being hand fed dinner in the main dining room by both owners. Also, at all other venues, the dog was being held by different people, at different times, while the owners were just having a good time. I do know how siezure dogs, and diabetic dogs, etc.... are trained to be with their handler. I have many friends that REQUIRE their service dogs to assist them. This, is a disgrace to people that have true service dogs. These people should be barred, and have shame in what they are doing. So sad! Yes, I do have pictures of them. I will be sending them to RCI. I could post them. But, I won't, unless I feel the need.

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by FireEMT978

[D4]

That’s terrible.  You could send the pictures and details to news media.

[pcur]

Those people have been discussed previously on this board.  Little yappy dog under the table?  They must have some kind of magic mojo with RCCL.  

 

Good for you for complaining, as they won't do anything about this kind of cheating unless enough people do complain.  There is a limit to comfort animals, and inside the dining room is over the line.  

 

The very least the head waiter should be putting them in a private dining area.

[capertillar]

I have no idea how you poor guys tolerate the cruise lines allowing this unbelievable behaviour.

 

Its not a thing here in Australia. Sure guide dogs would be allowed, but not crazy arse stroller dogs. LOL

 

Have never seen any in Europe either.

[Tin can]

2 hours ago, capertillar said:

I have no idea how you poor guys tolerate the cruise lines allowing this unbelievable behaviour.

 

Its not a thing here in Australia. Sure guide dogs would be allowed, but not crazy arse stroller dogs. LOL

 

Have never seen any in Europe either.

 

Never seen any over here in Europe either.  Out last cruise out of New York had a lady with a stroller and a small yappy dog in it dressed up according to the activity, swim suit around the pool and a bow tie on formal night sat in the stroller.

 

All seemed a bit weird to me but the majority of American guests didn't seem to take any notice so this sort of thing must be fairly common. I guess its fairly harmless although I wouldn't want to be sitting next to it in the MDR. 

 

[PolytheneGirl]

6 hours ago, FireEMT978 said:

Yeah, I know I will get people mad. Don't Care! What type of service dog is this? During our past week on the Oasis, we had a couple with a Yorkie "Service dog", with the fake "Credentials". How do I know this, you ask. Well, the fact that this dog was in a stroller, being hand fed dinner in the main dining room by both owners. Also, at all other venues, the dog was being held by different people, at different times, while the owners were just having a good time. I do know how siezure dogs, and diabetic dogs, etc.... are trained to be with their handler. I have many friends that REQUIRE their service dogs to assist them. This, is a disgrace to people that have true service dogs. These people should be barred, and have shame in what they are doing. So sad! Yes, I do have pictures of them. I will be sending them to RCI. I could post them. But, I won't, unless I feel the need.

 

 

Emotional Support Dog?

[Funky Fusion FoodsJ]

It is impossible to determine if an animal is a "service" animal or "support" animal simply through brief observation.  There are some that fit your description that are registered "service" animals and help individuals identify when seizures are about to occur.

 

 

[SRF]

If the dog is with the person 24/7, then it is possible.

 

But with many of these stroller dogs, you will see the owners out and about without them, sometimes for significant periods of time.

 

Those are NOT ESA or Service animals.

[cindyscruise]

How can a dog detect seizures if he is not with that person?  

[Merion_Mom]

2 hours ago, jean87510 said:

Before you contact national news, your congressman, the White House and RCCL, you may want to read about emotional support animals.  And also hope these people dont sue you for taking their pictures.  

 

If it bothers you so much, maybe reading or doing sudoku may help.  Or focus on chair hogs.

 

 

I'll "see" your list and raise you one.

 

Q

Are emotional support animals allowed onboard a Royal Caribbean cruise ship?

A

 

 

We’ve recently changed our policy on emotional support animals onboard our ships. Our policy now differentiates emotional support animals from service animals that are trained to perform a function for a person with a disability. Service animals will continue to be welcomed onboard for guests with disabilities. We will no longer have emotional support animals onboard.

We know this may be disappointing to some, but our decision was made to ensure we consistently deliver a great vacation experience for all our guests. As we transition into our new policy, guests that already processed a request to bring their emotional support animal on or before July 30th, 2018, will be allowed to do so on their existing cruise.

 

 

 

 

SERVICE ANIMALS 

Royal Caribbean International welcomes service dogs on all ships.* Please note we do not accept pets.

A service dog is defined as "any dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of a person with a disability." Service dogs are not considered pets.

Evidence that a dog is a service dog is helpful but not required (such as identification cards, other written documentation, presence of harnesses and/or tags or the credible verbal assurance of the person with a disability using the dog).

We provide 4 feet by 4 feet relief areas with cypress mulch to accommodate service dogs. Sod for sailings from the U.S. can be provided if ordered in advance and is available. Relief areas are provided on a shared basis with other service dogs onboard. Please note that Central Park on OasisSM class ships is not designated as a relief area.

Please notify our Access Department at time of booking but no later than 30 days prior to sailing if a service dog relief area is needed.

Service dogs are permitted to accompany the person with a disability in all public areas, including dining venues. While in public areas, service dogs must be on a leash, harness or other restraining device. Due to health regulations, service dogs are not permitted in pools, whirlpools or spas.

Care and supervision of the service dog is the sole responsibility of the owner. The ships are not required to provide food or care for the dog.

Guests may bring a reasonable quantity of food and bowls for the dog onboard the ship at no additional charge. If refrigerated space is needed, notify our Access Department at time of booking but no later than 30 days prior to sailing.

If the guest chooses to disembark the ship at a port at which the service dog must remain onboard, the guest must make arrangements to ensure that the dog is cared for. Note that the ship's staff is not required to care for the dog, nor can the dog be left in the stateroom unattended.

Guests are responsible for obtaining all required documents for the animal to depart the ship in ports of call and at final destination. For document requirements, visit:

• U.S. Department of Agriculture
• Hawaii Department of Agriculture
• UK Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs

A copy of these permits must be carried on the ship, and a copy left with Guest Relations Desk upon boarding the ship.

The documentation and immunization requirements are established by government authorities and not Royal Caribbean International. Please note requirements are subject to change without notice.

Guests are responsible for the behavior or damage caused by their service dog. A cleaning fee may be charged to the guest's shipboard account.

If the service dog's behavior creates a fundamental alteration or a direct threat to safety, the dog may be denied boarding or removed from the ship along with the owner at the guest's expense. Examples include: growling, barking excessively, initiating unsolicited contact, biting other guests and/or crewmembers, failure to use designated relief areas, sitting on furniture, eating from the table, etc.

If you have an animal that does not meet the definition of a service animal (i.e. a dog trained to perform a task) but must accompany you in order to assist you with your disability, please contact our Access Department at least 60 days prior to sailing.

 

 

[Seville2Cabo]

There were 6 dogs on Navigator in December.  We only saw 3 (and they all looked like real service dogs, IMO).  Talking to one of the owners in the Lounge, she told us of the total.  Had one on the tender to Catilina and one getting off the ship in Ensenada and the one in the lounge.  

 

Don't think it is a big deal.  They were behaved and never saw any issues

 

[CaroleSS]

True Service dogs are highly trained.....and many times you don't even notice they are around. They don't bark (unless that is their notification), they don't sit in grocery carts, they don't poop/pee on the floor, and they don't try to bite a hand that gets near them.

 

A huge tell-tale sign is if the owner lets you pet them. You do NOT pet a service dog while they are working! If the owner lets you pet their dog, it is most likely an ESA or a pet.

 

I love my dogs, they are part of my family, but people who take Fifi on a cruise or to the grocery store with them are breaking the law and only make it more difficult for the TRUE service dogs. It is time to clamp down on the fakes!

 

I do understand that it is difficult to discover/prove that the dog isn't a true service dog.....HIPAA and all, but it can be done!

Edited January 11, 2022 by CaroleSS

[CaroleSS]

@cruisingguy007 Just a quick note: if you are in a room/area/airplane with a true service dog, your son's allergies don't matter. A true service dog has more rights than he does. You would be asked to leave over the service dog.

 

An ESA is totally different and your son takes prescience .

[Mabbiez]

I have a trained service dog who will go on a cruise with me this spring. Feeding a dog from the table at a restaurant is a big no no. My dog is trained to sit under the table or behind my legs while at a table (sometimes it depends on the type of legs the table has). My dog would never ever bark or bite at someone. If a service dog bites at someone that is a sign they need to be washed/retired as a service dog. (That is, if it's a true service dog to begin with)

[Maitaivegas]

I used to live in Portland OR, home of any type of animal can be an emotional support animal.

Some clown brought a Llama on our very crowded underground transportation.

 

I do not want any dogs other than service dogs where I am eating.

Service dogs have better table manners than most people.

If I saw that yapper where I was eating, I would report it to the Manager of Dinning.

[Merion_Mom]

31 minutes ago, CaroleSS said:

@cruisingguy007 Just a quick note: if you are in a room/area/airplane with a true service dog, your son's allergies don't matter. A true service dog has more rights than he does. You would be asked to leave over the service dog.

 

An ESA is totally different and your son takes prescience .

precedence  🙂 

 

[RobInMN]

I have the utmost respect and admiration for true service dogs (animals?). On the other end, the utmost distain for this "emotional support" BS and especially anyone attempting to call their ES BS a "service" animal.

Service dogs go through months of training by professional trainers. These people trying to pull off ES animals almost never attempt any sort of "training", even for just simple behavior.

I am glad to see the service dog/animal industry and owners pushing back on this non-sense. In my opinion, this ES BS has adversely impacted those that have true service animals. That the larger public doesn't see or understand the difference, and when an ES animal goes too far, the true service animals can get caught up in the reaction/response.

I remember reading an article that referenced a story where some guy's service dog was attacked on an elevator by some beyotch's "emotional support dog", which she initially tried to claim was a "service dog". And finally she just admitted it's just a normal pet and she just liked having it around.

 

[CaroleSS]

31 minutes ago, Mabbiez said:

I have a trained service dog who will go on a cruise with me this spring. Feeding a dog from the table at a restaurant is a big no no. My dog is trained to sit under the table or behind my legs while at a table (sometimes it depends on the type of legs the table has). My dog would never ever bark or bite at someone. If a service dog bites at someone that is a sign they need to be washed/retired as a service dog. (That is, if it's a true service dog to begin with)

You and your dog are welcome onboard. Hope you have a wonderful trip!

[Mabbiez]

52 minutes ago, CaroleSS said:

You and your dog are welcome onboard. Hope you have a wonderful trip!

Thank you! This will be her first time on a cruise with me. I got her after my last cruise. She has made such a huge impact on my life! 

[not-enough-cruising]

4 hours ago, Funky Fusion FoodsJ said:

It is impossible to determine if an animal is a "service" animal or "support" animal simply through brief observation.  There are some that fit your description that are registered "service" animals and help individuals identify when seizures are about to occur.

 

 

Very easy to determine. A service dog does NOT sit on the laps of other people. A service dog does NOT get fed from the table. A service dog is ALWAYS at the side of the individual it serves. 

[chengkp75]

5 hours ago, jean87510 said:

Before you contact national news, your congressman, the White House and RCCL, you may want to read about emotional support animals.  And also hope these people dont sue you for taking their pictures.  

And yet, all of what you quoted supports the OP in his questioning of whether this is a service animal.  Just as you say that airlines no longer have to cater to support animals, neither do cruise ships, or any business in the US.  The only place where emotional support animals are given any protection is in the Equal Housing Act.

 

And, as the poster states, in a public space, he is free to take your photo and publish it on public websites.

 

Now, for a lot of confusion about service dogs.  Service dogs do not need to be registered, as there is no national registry, or requirement.  Service dogs do not need to be trained by a professional, they can be home trained, or even come by the skill themselves.  Service dogs do not need any indication of their service, like a vest or harness.  Service dogs do need to be in one of two places, as allowed by the ADA:  either in the owner's arms, or on the floor.  Dogs in strollers are not allowed, nor is feeding an animal from the table in public.  Even if the dog is left onboard during port stops, it must meet the importation requirements of the port country, as the ship has "entered" the country, and the possibility exists of the dog going ashore.

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, Funky Fusion FoodsJ said:

It is impossible to determine if an animal is a "service" animal or "support" animal simply through brief observation.  There are some that fit your description that are registered "service" animals and help individuals identify when seizures are about to occur.

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Very easy to determine. A service dog does NOT sit on the laps of other people. A service dog does NOT get fed from the table. A service dog is ALWAYS at the side of the individual it serves. 

Actually, you are both correct.  The dog in a stroller eating from the table could be a true service dog, just a poorly behaved one (with poorly behaved owners), and one that should not be allowed on the ship or in public.

 

As for your last sentence, not-enough, while that is true the vast majority of the time in public, it is not always true.

[CaroleSS]

Because of HIPAA laws....here are the rules.....

 

In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform?

 

In Florida (where I live) passing off your dog as a service dog is a second-degree misdemeanor and can be forced to pay a $500 fine and up to 60 days in jail.

 

Since many sailings originate from Florida, I have to wonder if the laws of Florida would apply? Could a fraudulent owner be detained (most likely) after disembarking?

 

Alas, all this discussion is moot as RCI and many other businesses just look the other way as they don't want to be bothered. (Heavy sign) All these owners make it difficult on true owners who NEED the help.

[not-enough-cruising]

19 minutes ago, CaroleSS said:

Because of HIPAA laws....here are the rules.....

 

In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform?

 

In Florida (where I live) passing off your dog as a service dog is a second-degree misdemeanor and can be forced to pay a $500 fine and up to 60 days in jail.

 

Since many sailings originate from Florida, I have to wonder if the laws of Florida would apply? Could a fraudulent owner be detained (most likely) after disembarking?

 

Alas, all this discussion is moot as RCI and many other businesses just look the other way as they don't want to be bothered. (Heavy sign) All these owners make it difficult on true owners who NEED the help.

HIPAA does. It come into play here 

[not-enough-cruising]

25 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

 

Actually, you are both correct.  The dog in a stroller eating from the table could be a true service dog, just a poorly behaved one (with poorly behaved owners), and one that should not be allowed on the ship or in public.

 

As for your last sentence, not-enough, while that is true the vast majority of the time in public, it is not always true.

I concur