Escape damaged, cruise cancelled, passengers being flown home

[CPT Trips]

8 hours ago, njhorseman said:

Waivers have been granted in the past in similar circumstances and I expect they will be here.

i expect that US citizens traveling with documents acceptable for a closed loop cruise will be readmitted with little additional difficulty. CBP officers have significant discretion normally. As the cruise line can provide the documents to CBP in advance of the individual arriving, all the necessary vetting can begin prior to the pax actually presenting the official documents. 

[CannonG]

48 minutes ago, shof515 said:

When the Carnival Vista needed repairs at Freeports, they used a floating drydock like one of those heavy lift ships that is commonly used for oil rigs. i wonder if that has a capable for the Escape and the bigger Oasis class ships 

ChengKp75, with the Escape being repositioned to Europe at the end of April do you think they might tow the ship to Europe and fix the damage there if say the hull was fine but the propellers were damaged? 
 

What would be your guess how long the ship may be sidelined for? There are reports the NCL Sky had a similar event in 1999 that took over a month to repair.

[njhorseman]

16 minutes ago, CPT Trips said:

i expect that US citizens traveling with documents acceptable for a closed loop cruise will be readmitted with little additional difficulty. CBP officers have significant discretion normally. As the cruise line can provide the documents to CBP in advance of the individual arriving, all the necessary vetting can begin prior to the pax actually presenting the official documents. 

There won't be any difficulty, but there's still paperwork that has to be issued, which could take a couple of days.

In at least one past instance where the cruise terminated in (IIRC) St. Maarten the passengers without passports were issued letters authorizing their travel without a passport. One of the passengers posted a copy of it on Cruise Critic. Remember that these passengers have to be processed by airline employees at check in at the foreign airport who expect them to have passports.

Also the Dominican Republic is not one of the countries that has CBP preclearance so the passengers are not going to be cleared for entry to the US before boarding the aircraft as would happen in The Bahamas , Bermuda, Aruba and other locations . They will have to go through customs and immigration clearance when thy arrive back in the US .

Edited March 16, 2022 by njhorseman

[CPT Trips]

10 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

There won't be any difficulty, but there's still paperwork that has to be issued, which could take a couple of days.

In at least one past instance the passengers without passports were issued letters authorizing their travel without a passport. One of the passengers posted a copy of it on Cruise Critic. Remember that these passengers have to be processed by airline employees at check in at the foreign airport who expect them to have passports.

Also the Dominican Republic is not one of the countries that has CBP preclearance so the passengers are not going to be cleared for entry to the US before boarding the aircraft as would happen in The Bahamas , Bermuda, Aruba and other locations . They will have to go through customs and immigration clearance when thy arrive back in the US .

They will be flying on charters, that will allow a specialized check in at the DR airport so no worry about boarding the flights. It will also allow for specialized CBP processing given advance notice and preparation. 
There is a higher likelihood of issues caused by overweight baggage belonging to cruisers that drove to the port than there will be from a few US citizens with no passports.

Edited March 16, 2022 by CPT Trips

[njhorseman]

Just now, CPT Trips said:

They will be flying on charters, that will allow a specialized check in at the DR airport. It will also allow for specialized CBP processing given advance notice and preparation. 
There is a higher likelihood of issues caused by overweight baggage belonging to cruisers that drove to the port than there will be from a few US citizens with no passports.

 If you read the letter to passengers in post #29 you'll see that those passengers without passports were told to contact guest services immediately to discuss alternate arrangements, so I wouldn't make assumptions as to how and when those guests will be flying home.

In fact if there are only "a few" passengers without passports as you're assuming, and since it may  take a day or two to go through the bureaucracy  to obtain travel authorization it's quite possible those passengers will end up on scheduled flights that depart after the charters have taken the other passengers back to Florida.

[eileeshb]

14 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

 If you read the letter to passengers in post #29 you'll see that those passengers without passports were told to contact guest services immediately to discuss alternate arrangements, so I wouldn't make assumptions as to how and when those guests will be flying home.

In fact if there are only "a few" passengers without passports as you're assuming, and since it may  take a day or two to go through the bureaucracy  to obtain travel authorization it's quite possible those passengers will end up on scheduled flights that depart after the charters have taken the other passengers back to Florida.

I wonder if they’re considering getting the no-passport guests to Puerto Rico by another ship and then they could fly from there without a passport. 
btw I still think it’s bonkers to travel without a passport but then I’m Irish and not having a passport would be a rarity here. However I have let my Australian passport lapse because the renewal fee went over €200, an Irish passport is still less than €100 at most, little kids and pensioners short-term passports are even cheaper. 

[geegee1]

While this stinks, especially for the people on the next cruise.  If I was on the current one, I would do all I can to ask to stay on until the 18th.  With the power running, bars and restaurants open, might as well enjoy it for as long as possible.

[hallux]

@geegee1 I'm sure they'll let people stay on as long as needed, but if arrangements can be made for someone to get home (or at least to Orlando) sooner than the planned end of the trip they will make that happen.  They want to get moving on repairs, or getting the ship to where repairs will be made, and that is not going to happen until there's a zero-count of passengers so they don't want people hanging around just because.

 

Bottom line is - the current passengers are getting their money back for this cruise AND money toward another, it's not like they're being ripped off and they need to find a way to get as much out of it as they can.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, CannonG said:

ChengKp75, with the Escape being repositioned to Europe at the end of April do you think they might tow the ship to Europe and fix the damage there if say the hull was fine but the propellers were damaged? 
 

What would be your guess how long the ship may be sidelined for? There are reports the NCL Sky had a similar event in 1999 that took over a month to repair.

IF the propellers were damaged, and I doubt they are, because if it was a sandbar, the ship would have grounded forward, not all the way aft where the propellers are, or if it was the side of the channel, the propellers don't extend past the side of the ship, but if they were, they would simply let that propeller "free-wheel" until they could get somewhere where divers could remove the blades from that propeller, and then proceed to either continue cruises, or reposition to Europe.  They wouldn't tow.

 

I don't even know whether any repairs need to be done, or whether a dive survey was not possible in the port where she is.  If repairs are needed, I would suspect 7-10 days, at the outside, to complete repairs.  The "incident" you mention on the Sky is somewhat similar, but in many ways totally different.  The Sky grounded in the St. Lawrence River, striking beautiful Canadian granite, not sandy Caribbean bottom.  The Sky had the hull breached by this grounding, and was taking on water.  A chunk of that granite is mounted on a plaque in the Engine Control Room of the Sky, to this day.  It also damaged one fin stabilizer, which was extended, and had to be removed, and it was left off, leaving the ship with only 3 stabilizer fins, until the 2004 drydock, when we put it back on.

[njhorseman]

42 minutes ago, eileeshb said:

I wonder if they’re considering getting the no-passport guests to Puerto Rico by another ship and then they could fly from there without a passport. 
btw I still think it’s bonkers to travel without a passport but then I’m Irish and not having a passport would be a rarity here. However I have let my Australian passport lapse because the renewal fee went over €200, an Irish passport is still less than €100 at most, little kids and pensioners short-term passports are even cheaper. 

No passport is needed to fly from Puerto Rico to the US mainland but they would still need a passport to disembark in Puerto Rico traveling from the Dominican Republic by ship so that wouldn't help. 

[deliver42]

NCL is handling this fantasticly for the passengers, all at the cruise lines expense.

[Mlake09]

5 hours ago, vacation44 said:

Agreed.

 

Thank you chengkp75.

Ditto- your posts are always super informative! 
 

Does this have any impact on future port stops at Taino Bay? We’re supposed to be there in a few weeks….

[chengkp75]

41 minutes ago, Mlake09 said:

Ditto- your posts are always super informative! 
 

Does this have any impact on future port stops at Taino Bay? We’re supposed to be there in a few weeks….

Probably not, but certainly more carefully.

[Diver2014]

 

good grief.  Our January 15 cruise on Escape was cancelled 3 days prior to sailing.  Now this.  I hope 3 is not the 'lucky' number on Escape.

[dddjones]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

IF the propellers were damaged, and I doubt they are, because if it was a sandbar, the ship would have grounded forward, not all the way aft where the propellers are, or if it was the side of the channel, the propellers don't extend past the side of the ship, but if they were, they would simply let that propeller "free-wheel" until they could get somewhere where divers could remove the blades from that propeller, and then proceed to either continue cruises, or reposition to Europe.  They wouldn't tow.

 

I don't even know whether any repairs need to be done, or whether a dive survey was not possible in the port where she is.  If repairs are needed, I would suspect 7-10 days, at the outside, to complete repairs.  The "incident" you mention on the Sky is somewhat similar, but in many ways totally different.  The Sky grounded in the St. Lawrence River, striking beautiful Canadian granite, not sandy Caribbean bottom.  The Sky had the hull breached by this grounding, and was taking on water.  A chunk of that granite is mounted on a plaque in the Engine Control Room of the Sky, to this day.  It also damaged one fin stabilizer, which was extended, and had to be removed, and it was left off, leaving the ship with only 3 stabilizer fins, until the 2004 drydock, when we put it back on.

Great info my friend...we sail on Escape in May....Sure hope she is good to go by then...you make it sound like she will, so that makes me feel good....thanks buddy...

[BirdTravels]

7 hours ago, CPT Trips said:

They will be flying on charters, that will allow a specialized check in at the DR airport so no worry about boarding the flights. It will also allow for specialized CBP processing given advance notice and preparation. 
There is a higher likelihood of issues caused by overweight baggage belonging to cruisers that drove to the port than there will be from a few US citizens with no passports.

You just pointed out that this is a charter. So there are no weight limits. 
 

Bag limits are really dependent on an airline. My airline status gives me three bags up to 70 lbs on every flight. So I never worry about that extra rum cake or three. 

[BermudaBound2014]

I just rolled my eyes out loud. 

[BermudaBound2014]

9 hours ago, deliver42 said:

NCL is handling this fantasticly for the passengers, all at the cruise lines expense.

Are you onboard now or scheduled to sail in a few weeks? The reason i ask is that those who are Currently onboard (or have had their cruise cancelled) seem to be having some chAllenges dealing with NCL. Reminds me a bit of MSc where the right hand and left aren’t communicating effectively. 

[hallux]

9 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

So there are no weight limits.

Unless they're not filling the plane, yes there are.  They're likely chartering a commercial jet, not a private plane.

[BirdTravels]

14 minutes ago, hallux said:

Unless they're not filling the plane, yes there are.  They're likely chartering a commercial jet, not a private plane.

Yes. They are likely chartering something like a 737. I fly charters all the time and there is never a “you are at 53 lbs, take something out or pay $100”.
 

You can twist words all you want. We’re talking about heavy bags not bulk freight. 
 

The discussion was about people driving to the port having a suitcase (not air pallet) that weights more than 50 lbs (or 40 lbs) on a commercial flight). 

Edited March 17, 2022 by BirdTravels

[quattrohead]

chengkp75 thanks for the great technical info as always.

I was very surprised how fast the MSC Divina was going with a 50kt wind at 90 degrees to her. We were still hauling arse at 22 knots. Do ships have an extra reserve in speed/power beyond published specs ?

Like the old British Rail IC125, smashed the world record for the highest speed diesel pax train that it still holds to this day at 148mph.

[chengkp75]

5 minutes ago, quattrohead said:

I was very surprised how fast the MSC Divina was going with a 50kt wind at 90 degrees to her. We were still hauling arse at 22 knots. Do ships have an extra reserve in speed/power beyond published specs ?

Can a ship go faster than service speed?  Probably, but not much.  A wind from the beam has only a marginal effect on the ability of a ship to maintain speed, while anything from forward of the beam will start to reduce speed over the ground, until it is dead ahead, and the effect is maximized.  Also, remember that the "service speed" of a ship is "speed through the water", but if the water is moving, as with the Gulf Stream, the ship can easily exceed its rated speed.  My last ship, a tanker, would make 14 knots at best, but with the Gulf Stream behind us, we clocked 19 knots one time.

[ricflyer]

From what I can see on FLIGHTAWARE.COM there was one 767 charter yesterday and 2 A321s schedule so far today. So at this rate it is going to take some time to get several thousand people back to Orlando. I think Norwegian is facing a problem getting charters. With the NCAA basketball tournaments (men's, woman's and NIT) and the busy college/school spring breaks there is very little availability. This is going to get interesting. At least they can eat and drink on the ship while they wait.

[Karaboudjan]

1 hour ago, ricflyer said:

From what I can see on FLIGHTAWARE.COM there was one 767 charter yesterday and 2 A321s schedule so far today. So at this rate it is going to take some time to get several thousand people back to Orlando. I think Norwegian is facing a problem getting charters. With the NCAA basketball tournaments (men's, woman's and NIT) and the busy college/school spring breaks there is very little availability. This is going to get interesting. At least they can eat and drink on the ship while they wait.

 

I think what we see should be plenty.  Those three aircraft should be able to carry 600+ passengers.  I don't know what the occupancy is this week, but they could probably handle everyone with 3-4 trips.  It's only a 2 hour flight and they have today and tomorrow.

[ricflyer]

They have added another 767 flight for today.  Based on the schedule between yesterday and today they will maybe move at most 900 guest. Anyone know how many were on board?