I just had a friend make a comment that struck me as a little funny...

[iancal]

7 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

 

 

The lines identified are all mass-market — likely to be similar;  while premium lines are likely to provide distinctly better service.

Agree.  Our service levels and food on Crystal were far better than we experienced on any mass market line. 

 

We were very much anticipating our first cruise on HAL.  Lots of posters seemed to feel that their service was over the top special and their employees wonderful.

 

We were very happy with our HAL cruise but we experienced no difference whatsoever in the the service levels or the staff over our previous Celebrity cruise.  Or our prior Princess cruises.

[navybankerteacher]

2 minutes ago, iancal said:

Agree.  Our service levels and food on Crystal were far better than we experienced on any mass market line. 

 

We were very much anticipating our first cruise on HAL.  Lots of posters seemed to feel that their service was over the top special and their employees wonderful.

 

We were very happy with our HAL cruise but we experienced no difference whatsoever in the the service levels or the staff over our previous Celebrity cruise.  Or our prior Princess cruises.

As has been noted more than once, HAL used to be a couple of notches above other mass market lines but they have gradually trimmed services food quality and entertainment to the point of losing their edge.

[sanger727]

For this question to have any context, we really need to know which lines are being discussed. As others have mentioned, luxury lines have more crew members per passenger and probably do give better service. I've never been treated "poorly" on any vacation. But for comparison purposes. There is an AI that we have been to a couple times that we love because of how great the service is. As in, there are beach butlers that will find you a beach bed in your preferred location and set it up for you as soon as they see you walking up. And because it's a small resort, they also have beach beds and loungers available. I've never experienced something comparable on a cruise. 

[shipgeeks]

There is also the question of what one considers good service.  Some people like to be hovered over, some like to be left alone.  We have experienced MDR waiters whose style is "Hey Mister Whiskers, let me show you some more tricks" and others whose presence is so discreet as to be almost invisible. Yet both provided excellent service.

[lenquixote66]

3 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

 

While I like the atmosphere on some ships more than others, I agree there are more things the same than not.   I sure agree about the absence of negative crew members.  Never really had any issues.   But I'm not one of those people needing something to complain about.  

Too many people in this world live to complain or argue.

[lenquixote66]

2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

As has been noted more than once, HAL used to be a couple of notches above other mass market lines but they have gradually trimmed services food quality and entertainment to the point of losing their edge.

When I was on a Cunard ship in 1973 they had A list entertainment .

HAL had big name entertainers when I began cruising with them.

[NWACruiser]

Interesting comments were made.  It appears the moral of the story is simple:  When you are on a ship, it really does not matter which ship you are on.  it is up to you to make the best of it.  

 

While the different lines have different entertainment, the crew members across the line work their butts off to make your vacation pleasurable. 

 

What I find interesting is the response you get when you ask a crew member about their homelife.  It just seems to make their day.  Many said crew members are now friends, and have actually met up with some of them on different cruises.  

 

Keep this thread going.  

[baelor]

4 hours ago, NWACruiser said:

When you are on a ship, it really does not matter which ship you are on.  it is up to you to make the best of it.  

In a sense, sure.  But MSC and Regent offer different experiences, and some people may have reasonable preferences for one over the other.

[cruizergal70]

3 hours ago, baelor said:

In a sense, sure.  But MSC and Regent offer different experiences, and some people may have reasonable preferences for one over the other.

This is all subjective to personal expectations.  

[navybankerteacher]

11 hours ago, NWACruiser said:

… When you are on a ship, it really does not matter which ship you are on.  it is up to you to make the best of it.  …

Of course it is up to the individual to “make the best of it” - but it is a whole lot easier to “make the best of” a an uncrowded ship, with good service, good food, and quality entertainment/enrichment than it is to make the best of a crowded mass market bargain line.

[iancal]

We have never had a bad cruise.  Some better than others.  We have had two excellent cruises on Carnival notwithstanding some untoward comments about the line. The food on both was certainly on par with other lines, as was the service.

 

Bottom line for us, despite the usual cruise boosters claiming that their brand is the best ever in all respects is that the mass market cruise lines have one thing in common.   Inconsistency between ships, between sailings, between itineraries.   

 

Despite the fact that the mass market cruise lines all seem to be gravitating to the lowest common denominator there are some differences between cruise lines.

Edited April 22, 2022 by iancal

[Nebr.cruiser]

20 hours ago, shipgeeks said:

There is also the question of what one considers good service.  Some people like to be hovered over, some like to be left alone.  We have experienced MDR waiters whose style is "Hey Mister Whiskers, let me show you some more tricks" and others whose presence is so discreet as to be almost invisible. Yet both provided excellent service.

Very true.  I would be very uncomfortable being 'hovered over' and much prefer good but discreet service.  Also, it should be a given that luxury cruise lines will/should be an elevated experience.  After all, compared to mass market lines, their cost is generally much higher.

[baelor]

7 hours ago, cruizergal70 said:

This is all subjective to personal expectations.  

Of course.  But that was not the claim I was responding to:  "When you are on a ship, it really does not matter which ship you are on.  it is up to you to make the best of it."

 

That is simply not true, at least in any meaningful sense.  If I want X-style food and Y-style service and Z-style ship/passengers/whatever, there may be lines that are a better fit for me.  It is still subjective, but it is not the case that I am simply making the best of it.

 

That is a generic platitude.  Why not stay at home and make the best of that?  

Edited April 22, 2022 by baelor

[navybankerteacher]

8 minutes ago, baelor said:

Of course.  But that was not the claim I was responding to:  "When you are on a ship, it really does not matter which ship you are on.  it is up to you to make the best of it."

 

That is simply not true, at least in any meaningful sense.  If I want X-style food and Y-style service, there may be lines that are a better fit for me.  It is still subjective, but it is not the case that I am simply making the best of it.

 

That is a generic platitude.  Why not stay at home and make the best of that?  

I think it is very likely that most people who maintain that there is essentially no real differences between cruise lines have only sailed on the mass market lines. 

[SRQbeachgirl]

On 4/18/2022 at 2:15 AM, Hlitner said:

The real question is how much are you willing to pay for the higher end services?    

 

This is really what it boils down to. I will preface by saying I have only cruised with Royal Caribbean and Carnival. My parents, on the other hand, have cruised with both the mass-markets (Carnival, NCL, Royal) and the higher-end luxury lines of Windstar, Seaborne, Crystal, etc. When discussing our experiences and theirs, the differences in the type of service between mass-market and luxury are obvious.

 

It's much like the difference between eating a steak at Peter Luger's vs. Texas Roadhouse. You might get the same cut of filet mignon at both places but the preparation, presentation, and atmosphere are completely different. If you go to a Texas Roadhouse expecting a Peter Luger experience, you might still get a good steak, but you will still be completely disappointed. On the other hand, those who are perfectly happy with the steak, service, and atmosphere at Texas Roadhouse see no reason to pay the prices for the Peter Luger experience.

 

 

On 4/21/2022 at 11:48 AM, navybankerteacher said:

The lines identified are all mass-market — likely to be similar;  while premium lines are likely to provide distinctly better service.

 

This is true, but "better" is relative. I can easily afford high-end restaurants and occasionally will go to them. But I much prefer the toes-in-the-sand, laid-back, tiki-hut vibe restaurants that are abundant in my neck of the woods (or stretch of coastline, in my case). Likewise, I can easily afford the luxury cruise lines, but I have little need or desire for that level of experience. In fact, one of my favorite past-times on a cruise is people watching and, frankly, you just cannot equal the unparalleled people-watching amusement that can be found on a mass-market cruise. It's a veritable people-watcher's buffet!

   

23 hours ago, shipgeeks said:

There is also the question of what one considers good service.  Some people like to be hovered over, some like to be left alone.  We have experienced MDR waiters whose style is "Hey Mister Whiskers, let me show you some more tricks" and others whose presence is so discreet as to be almost invisible. Yet both provided excellent service.

 

We have had some of the best service at both 5-star restaurants and hole-in-the-wall joints. We have also had what I consider to be atrocious service at both types of establishments. However, we have never had poor service on a cruise. Sometimes it's been a bit slow due to issues outside of our waitstaff's control, but they have always been gracious and accommodating.

 

4 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Of course it is up to the individual to “make the best of it” - but it is a whole lot easier to “make the best of” a an uncrowded ship, with good service, good food, and quality entertainment/enrichment than it is to make the best of a crowded mass market bargain line.

 

But that is assuming that the mass-market lines don't provide "good service, good food, and quality entertainment," which are subjective and measured by personal taste and preference. I venture that the reason it may be harder for some people to "make the best of it" on a mass-market line isn't really the fault of the cruise line, it's the misalignment of the customer's expectations with the product the cruise line offers. 

 

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

I think it is very likely that most people who maintain that there is essentially no real differences between cruise lines have only sailed on the mass market lines. 

 

That is probably true. There are absolutely differences. It's what someone is willing to pay for those differences--and whether those differences are even important to those people--that really matters.

 

I think what bothers me the most is the attitude that is often directed at the mass-market lines and the people who choose to cruise with them. Sure, the mass-markets attract people who can't afford to cruise on higher lines. However, there are also many of us who can easily afford those luxury lines, but enjoy the experiences on the mass-market lines.

 

The only thing that truly makes one cruise line "better" than others is personal preference. Fortunately, there are choices that will accommodate just about everyone--and that is a very good thing. 

[baelor]

23 minutes ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

It's much like the difference between eating a steak at Peter Luger's vs. Texas Roadhouse. You might get the same cut of filet mignon

You wouldn't even get the same cut.  Peter Luger uses USDA Prime beef while Texas Roadhouse serves USDA Choice beef (both dry-age). 

[baelor]

28 minutes ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

But that is assuming that the mass-market lines don't provide "good service, good food, and quality entertainment," which are subjective and measured by personal taste and preference.

This is not true, or at least incomplete.  There are subjective components regarding preferences, but quality has some degree of objectivity.

 

Take entertainment.  Singers can either be on-key or off-key.  Jugglers can either drop balls or not.  Actors can either be convincing or not.  etc.

 

Same for food.  A line can either use high-quality, fresh ingredients or limp, old, tasteless ingredients.  The chefs can either cook the meat to order or not.  They can use well-marbled, prime steak or fatty, tough steak .  They can roast, grill, or fry their vegetables or they can boil/steam them.  Those are all objective, technical questions and not a matter of taste.

 

 

I am not sure why people are so trigger-happy with "it's all subjective" on this board.  Maybe the idea of criticizing or offending someone (or something, like a cruise line) is concerning.  I get that to some extent, but there are plenty of things that are not subjective.  I happen to like quieter areas; some people like crowded and loud areas.  That is subjective.  But getting ignored/treated like crap, eating mediocre, underseasoned food, and listening to bad singers are not subjective experiences.

[SRQbeachgirl]

5 minutes ago, baelor said:

You wouldn't even get the same cut.  Peter Luger uses USDA Prime beef while Texas Roadhouse serves USDA Choice beef (both dry-age). 

 

Good point and thanks for the information. I guess the next question is, how many people would care? 

 

[baelor]

3 minutes ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

Good point and thanks for the information. I guess the next question is, how many people would care? 

I mean, I would, but I also want to know what Japanese prefecture my A5 wagyu comes from.  I imagine that the people who care about Prime and Choice are also the type of people who care about the differences in food, entertainment, and service on the mass-market lines versus the luxury lines.

 

I cannot speculate as to how many people would be able to taste the difference, but I imagine a decent number if presented with the two steaks in a blind taste test.

[SRQbeachgirl]

5 minutes ago, baelor said:

This is not true, or at least incomplete.  There are subjective components regarding preferences, but quality has some degree of objectivity.

 

Take entertainment.  Singers can either be on-key or off-key.  Jugglers can either drop balls or not.  Actors can either be convincing or not.  etc.

 

Same for food.  A line can either use high-quality, fresh ingredients or limp, old, tasteless ingredients.  The chefs can either cook the meat to order or not.  They can use well-marbled, prime steak or fatty, tough steak .  They can roast, grill, or fry their vegetables or they can boil/steam them.  Those are all objective, technical questions and not a matter of taste.

 

 

I am not sure why people are so trigger-happy with "it's all subjective" on this board.  Maybe the idea of criticizing or offending someone (or something, like a cruise line) is concerning.  I get that to some extent, but there are plenty of things that are not subjective.  I happen to like quieter areas; some people like crowded and loud areas.  That is subjective.  But getting ignored/treated like crap, eating mediocre, underseasoned food, and listening to bad singers are not subjective experiences.

 

You can get off-key singers in the best venues. And "listening to bad singers" can absolutely be a subjective experience. I can have a great time listening to a mediocre, sometimes off-key singer, but the best opera singer in the world will still give me a chewing-on-tin-foil experience. 

 

And while agree that there is a difference between a "well-marbled, prime steak or fatty, tough steak," is the implication that you can only get the latter on a mass-market cruise? Because I have had excellent steak on some of my cruises.

 

Maybe the reason why some people seem "trigger-happy" is the pervasive attitude of some folks that habitually criticize the mass-market lines--and often the people who sail on them--rather than simply acknowledging that everyone enjoys different experiences and celebrating the fact that there are cruise lines to match those preferences. And for the record, I have never been "treated like crap" on any cruise, ever. 

 

And I'm not trying to be argumentative, really I'm not. I'm truly just trying to understand why there is a need on these boards to so often bash the mass-markets. Acknowledge the differences, certainly. But to represent that their service, food, and entertainment is terrible is unfair to them and their clientele. They provide a service and product that many, many people enjoy. 

[baelor]

10 minutes ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

You can get off-key singers in the best venues.

Not in my experience.

 

11 minutes ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

And "listening to bad singers" can absolutely be a subjective experience. I can have a great time listening to a mediocre, sometimes off-key singer, but the best opera singer in the world will still give me a chewing-on-tin-foil experience. 

I agree, but again, that is the subjective component.  Whether they are off-key or good is still objective.  

 

I love James Bond movies.  They are super fun.  But some of them, in many ways, suffer from technical faults like bad editing, hokey fight scenes, etc.

 

 

11 minutes ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

And while agree that there is a difference between a "well-marbled, prime steak or fatty, tough steak," is the implication that you can only get the latter on a mass-market cruise? Because I have had excellent steak on some of my cruises.

No.  I was simply picking up your analogy to Peter Luger/Texas Roadhouse.  I would speculate, though, that I would probably get higher-quality, better-prepared steak more often on the luxury lines.

 

 

13 minutes ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

Maybe the reason why some people seem "trigger-happy" is the pervasive attitude of some folks that habitually criticize the mass-market lines--and often the people who sail on them--rather than simply acknowledging that everyone enjoys different experiences and celebrating the fact that there are cruise lines to match those preferences

If it helps, I have never sailed on a luxury line or even a mass-market line.  My first sailing is on Royal in August, and I am super-pumped about it and sure I will have tons of fun!

[SRQbeachgirl]

2 minutes ago, baelor said:

My first sailing is on Royal in August, and I am super-pumped about it and sure I will have tons of fun!

 

I hope you have an absolutely amazing time! I have been hooked since my very first sailing and now it's an addiction!

[baelor]

10 minutes ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

 

I hope you have an absolutely amazing time! I have been hooked since my very first sailing and now it's an addiction!

Yeah, I have been inordinately obsessed with all things cruising since my friends and I decided to book one...

[Toofarfromthesea]

55 minutes ago, baelor said:

I am not sure why people are so trigger-happy with "it's all subjective" on this board.  

 

It is because this isn't our first rodeo and experience tells us that threads like this inevitably devolve into snobbery.  As this thread has, IMO.

[baelor]

22 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

It is because this isn't our first rodeo and experience tells us that threads like this inevitably devolve into snobbery.  As this thread has, IMO.

I guess I am less inclined to sacrifice accuracy and candor on the altar of avoiding apparent snobbery.  One person's snobbery is another person's helpful advice.  People can avoid threads they do not like.

Edited April 22, 2022 by baelor