Are there now going to be travel fees to Europe in 2023?

[lissie]

23 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Hopefully,  the EU questionnaire will, unlike the US equivalent, not ask me if I have ever been a member of the Communist Party! 

 

Exactly - having just  done my USA ETIAS application - and like yeah its insurance  that I  have to declare that I haven't been to various other countries! Or declare that I'm not a member of a legit political party! Its completely outrageous. 

 

The "attestation" form for  travelling to  the USA at the moment involves 4 pages!!! and all I  have to fill in my name, check that I've got a vaccination and sign it  on paper!  Its prehistoric and silly, the NZ form is a 3 questions in plain English done online and the result is a QR code emailed to me! 

 

Whatever the Europeans do will be so much easier than the US approach to the paperwork! 

[wowzz]

13 minutes ago, lissie said:

Whatever the Europeans do will be so much easier than the US approach to the paperwork! 

I do  sometimes wonder if Americans realise how stupid their ESTA application form is,  in this day and age ?

Probably not, as they, obviously,  will never have needed to fill one in,  and don't realise the stupidity of the questions asked.

 

[CPT Trips]

2 hours ago, wowzz said:

Hopefully,  the EU questionnaire will, unlike the US equivalent, not ask me if I have ever been a member of the Communist Party! 

 

But perhaps one regarding tea . . .

[ldubs]

5 hours ago, lissie said:

Exactly - having just  done my USA ETIAS application - and like yeah its insurance  that I  have to declare that I haven't been to various other countries! Or declare that I'm not a member of a legit political party! Its completely outrageous. 

 

The "attestation" form for  travelling to  the USA at the moment involves 4 pages!!! and all I  have to fill in my name, check that I've got a vaccination and sign it  on paper!  Its prehistoric and silly, the NZ form is a 3 questions in plain English done online and the result is a QR code emailed to me! 

 

Whatever the Europeans do will be so much easier than the US approach to the paperwork! 

 

It must have been very difficult because the US does not have an "ETIAS" application.  😀😀😀

 

You filled out the US ESTA.  I'm surprised the question about being a member of the communist party is still there.  I guess to the extent it might identify someone who supports tyranny, I'm not opposed. 

[ldubs]

5 hours ago, wowzz said:

I do  sometimes wonder if Americans realise how stupid their ESTA application form is,  in this day and age ?

Probably not, as they, obviously,  will never have needed to fill one in,  and don't realise the stupidity of the questions asked.

 

 

I had no idea what the questions were before reading this.   As I read it the questions are established to allow for profiling potential problems.  I sure don't understand how that works, but trust they know more than you or me about it.  

[frantic36]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

 

I had no idea what the questions were before reading this.   As I read it the questions are established to allow for profiling potential problems.  I sure don't understand how that works, but trust they know more than you or me about it.  

I respect your opinion however some of these profiling questions in the ESTA should have been laid to rest many years ago. I have to redo mine later this year and just sigh at some of the questions as they are inane.

[ldubs]

38 minutes ago, frantic36 said:

I respect your opinion however some of these profiling questions in the ESTA should have been laid to rest many years ago. I have to redo mine later this year and just sigh at some of the questions as they are inane.

 

No worries.  I'm not sure I really have an opinion, or a strong opinion anyway.  I was not even aware of this existed until this thread.  Kind of one of those "not going to worry about it" things to me.  Whatever they decide to put on ETIAS, I'll answer and move on (assuming I'm not barred from entry  😀).

[cruisemom42]

8 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

I had no idea what the questions were before reading this.   As I read it the questions are established to allow for profiling potential problems.  I sure don't understand how that works, but trust they know more than you or me about it.  

 

It seems a rather poor tool for profiling, if that is what it is. Asking if someone belongs to the Communist party seems beyond the pale when -- as already mentioned -- it is a legitimate political party with representation in national law-making bodies in many countries around the world. 

 

And if someone were a KGB spy trying to infiltrate the US, they would hardly tick the "Yes" box, would they? 

 

Just seems to me an example of the US being parochial.

 

 

[Wendy-Europe]

On 6/17/2022 at 4:11 PM, ilikeanswers said:

 

While it might not make or break some one's European trip, it doesn't mean people aren't going to be annoyed at having another expense on top of all the other expenses. There are a lot of other things I would rather be spending €7 on than a fee😂. 

I would gladly spend the fees for american ESTA for anything else. And they collect the money since  2010.....

 

 

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

It seems a rather poor tool for profiling, if that is what it is. Asking if someone belongs to the Communist party seems beyond the pale when -- as already mentioned -- it is a legitimate political party with representation in national law-making bodies in many countries around the world. 

 

And if someone were a KGB spy trying to infiltrate the US, they would hardly tick the "Yes" box, would they? 

 

Just seems to me an example of the US being parochial.

 

 

That is the problem with any of these forms.  They can be falsified.  I suppose that if that comes up later it can be another count in a prosecution, IDK. 

 

Parochial, yes perhaps.  I'm not sure that communism per Karl Marx can truly exist with other political parties.  I doubt there is any country with multiple political parties where the dominate one is communism.   Has there ever been a communist country that allowed competing political parties other than window dressing?  Old Soviet Union? China?  Cuba? North Korea?  Vietnam?  Laos?  All are essentially one party rule and I doubt the citizens feel free to voice dissent.   Have any had great track records on human rights?  Freedom?  Maybe not PC, but that is my view.   

[cruisemom42]

16 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

That is the problem with any of these forms.  They can be falsified.  I suppose that if that comes up later it can be another count in a prosecution, IDK. 

 

Parochial, yes perhaps.  I'm not sure that communism per Karl Marx can truly exist with other political parties.  I doubt there is any country with multiple political parties where the dominate one is communism.   Has there ever been a communist country that allowed competing political parties other than window dressing?  Old Soviet Union? China?  Cuba? North Korea?  Vietnam?  Laos?  All are essentially one party rule and I doubt the citizens feel free to voice dissent.   Have any had great track records on human rights?  Freedom?  Maybe not PC, but that is my view.   

 

But the form isn't asking whether Communism is the dominant party in the nation where the individual comes from. France, for example, has long had a Communist party that is represented by a small number of legislators and Senators -- they sometimes are part of coalitions with other parties and, as far as I know, your local card-carrying French member is not considered dangerous merely by being part of this group....

[ldubs]

1 minute ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

But the form isn't asking whether Communism is the dominant party in the nation where the individual comes from. France, for example, has long had a Communist party that is represented by a small number of legislators and Senators -- they sometimes are part of coalitions with other parties and, as far as I know, your local card-carrying French member is not considered dangerous merely by being part of this group....

 

I doubt a card carrying French citizen would be banned from entry.  They shouldn't be.  But again, I honestly don't know the intent.  

 

My previous comment was about how true communism could not exist with other political parties.   How could a ruling communist party allow a group of capitalists to have a say.  It does not seem possible.   Whereas, in free systems, all views are allowed, and the majority is not allowed to remove the rights of the minority. 

 

 

[broberts]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

And if someone were a KGB spy trying to infiltrate the US, they would hardly tick the "Yes" box, would they? 

 

A very persistent spy. The KGB hasn't existed officially for some 30 years. 🙂

 

[cruisemom42]

7 minutes ago, ldubs said:

My previous comment was about how true communism could not exist with other political parties.   How could a ruling communist party allow a group of capitalists to have a say.  It does not seem possible.   Whereas, in free systems, all views are allowed, and the majority is not allowed to remove the rights of the minority. 

 

I'm not disagreeing with you but the scope of my query is about the worth of including such a question on a form that is filled out by hundreds of thousands of tourists visiting the US, from countries where being a member of that country's communist party may not be any "red flag" -- and where, if there were likely to be a "red flag", most would just tick the other box.

 

It would be sort of like adding a question: "Are you a member of al-Quaeda (Or ISIS)? Fess up now!" 

 

 

[ldubs]

2 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

A very persistent spy. The KGB hasn't existed officially for some 30 years. 🙂

 

 

Maybe the "sleepers" never got the word.  

[ldubs]

2 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I'm not disagreeing with you but the scope of my query is about the worth of including such a question on a form that is filled out by hundreds of thousands of tourists visiting the US, from countries where being a member of that country's communist party may not be any "red flag" -- and where, if there were likely to be a "red flag", most would just tick the other box.

 

It would be sort of like adding a question: "Are you a member of al-Quaeda (Or ISIS)? Fess up now!" 

 

 

Yeah, for that part, as I've said before, I honestly don't know.  It is likely one of many items used in screening.  All well beyond my comprehension.  

[CPT Trips]

19 hours ago, wowzz said:

Hopefully,  the EU questionnaire will, unlike the US equivalent, not ask me if I have ever been a member of the Communist Party! 

 

iI scanned the US ESTA application and did not see that question. Can you direct me to where that question is on the application?

Edited June 18, 2022 by CPT Trips

[Wendy-Europe]

Even if it is a bit off topic - in several European countries the communist party is a fully legal party and even if not participating in the parliament it is often successful on the local level. In Italy, the communist party has a long tradition, also in France. And in several countries of the former Eastern bloc that are now part of the EU, the communist party is still one of the many parties running for election.

 

From 1997 to 2002, the party was involved in government in France under Socialist Prime Minister Lionel Jospin. In the present, the party is the largest communist party in Western Europe in terms of membership, with about 135,000 members.

 

After World War II, the Communist Party of Italy (CPI, Italian PCI) was the largest CP in Western Europe, with 1.8 million members.  From 1998 to 2000, Massimo D'Alema, the Italian PDS, was the first prime minister in a Western European state to come from a (former) Communist party.

 

Greece: The still Marxist-Leninist KKE in particular, but also SYRIZA, have regained importance in recent years. In the May 2012 parliamentary elections, SYRIZA became the second-strongest party with 16.8 %, while the KKE (Communist Party of Greece) came fourth with 8.5 %.

 

The Portuguese Communist Party was involved in government until 1976.

 

So - yes - there are many democratic countries where a communist party is quite active and even involved in government.

 

But - at the moment ESTA /the US is more interested in your social media accounts and your employer and your parents (why the heck are they interested in my parents - one of them is dead and the other is old - I am old too)

than your membership of a party:

 

https://nnuimmigration.com/esta-questions/

 

 

Edited June 18, 2022 by Wendy-Europe

[ldubs]

I don't know.   The whole thing seems to be a huge overreaction.  If this is what we have to complain about then life is pretty good. 

 

Anyone bought fuel lately?

[CPT Trips]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

Anyone bought fuel lately?

Prices dropped $0.14 per gallon in the last week locally.

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, CPT Trips said:

Prices dropped $0.14 per gallon in the last week locally.

 

Hope it works its way west.  I paid my personal high yesterday ($7.39/gal). 

 

But, we better get back to ETIAS or I'm going to be in trouble!  

[ilikeanswers]

On 6/18/2022 at 4:13 AM, mom says said:

Remind me again how much we would have to pay before entering your country?

 

Last I heard $AU20 and yes I am aware Australia invented the visa waiver charge so we only have only ourselves to blame😂.

 

Considering the ESTIA is a new charge I think we can give people a break for having a grumble. It is the natural part of the adjustment process. Not everyone is going to turn into a Karen just because they expose their disgruntlement. A good whine (with or without the h😜) can be quite cathartic. 

[ilikeanswers]

On 6/18/2022 at 3:08 AM, VMax1700 said:

Maybe spend it on part payment of the $21 fee to visit USA?

 

Give it a few years Europe will price match😉. 

[ilikeanswers]

On 6/18/2022 at 8:45 AM, lissie said:

I  have to declare that I haven't been to various other countries! 

 

The restrictions on travelling to certain countries making you ineligible for a USA ESTA has always seemed a bit strange to me. Hopefully we don't get the same requirements from the European ESTIA. 

Edited June 19, 2022 by ilikeanswers

[ontheweb]

10 hours ago, CPT Trips said:

Prices dropped $0.14 per gallon in the last week locally.

The price dropped here (though not at every station) at the beginning of June as NY state temporarily (until the end of the year) dropped its 18 cents a gallon gas tax. But, it did not take long for the price to go higher than it was at the end of May.