Was cruising better in the 90’s

[Hlitner]

2 minutes ago, wcook said:

Now that’s one ship I could never sail on. Too tempting to get separated from my wife and go around yelling “Marco” and listening for her reply. 
 

But in any other ship, I’d love to do a SE Asia River cruise. 

Not to worry.  I think they finally sent that ship to the scrap yard.

[iancal]

One issue I see that impacts both cruising and air is that prices, in real terms, have come down drastically.   At the same time some customers seem to expect even more for less.

 

I sometimes wonder if those who constantly bleat about carriers not being as good as they were in the 90's would be willing to pay what they paid in the 1990's, adjusted for inflation, in today's dolllars.

 

I suspect not otherwise they might have abandoned some of the mass market carriers and upgraded to premium or luxury lines for an equivalent  adjusted dollar fare.

 

Many want the lowest fare possible.  And some seem to enjoy moaning and complaining instead of voting with their feet and their wallets.

 

If we are not happy with a travel vendor, an offering, or an experience we simply give the vendor a pass on our next buy.  It could be a competitor, it could be an alternate travel option.

Edited August 12, 2022 by iancal

[dolittle]

53 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

When you stop to think about it, a self  leveling pool table might be something of a challenge for someone standing on a pitching or rolling deck to use.  Now, if there were a similarly self-leveling platform for one to stand on …

I am pretty sure Carnival's Red Frog pub has one . So does the Oasis of the Seas ,it is free.

 

[rkacruiser]

20 hours ago, Hlitner said:

We have an upcoming MSC cruise (back to back 7 day cruises) where we might see some of this stuff

 

It's likely that you will see this if my cruise on Meraviglia was any indication.  I was a YC guest, but, I enjoyed wandering around the rest of the ship at times.  The games that I saw took place at the mid-ship's pool and were quite humorous to watch.  On Meraviglia, there is a lounge on the deck above the pool that overlooks the deck and the area where the games took place.  That was a comfortable, air-conditioned space to watch the games.  (And, it has a bar, if it is open.)  I also found that when the bartenders outside of YC saw that you were a YC guest, the pours were most generous.  This was at the bar in the Meraviglia Lounge and at the mid-ships pool bar.  

 

One thing that I noticed about MSC in comparison to my cruises in the same time period on HAL and Princess was the larger size of the CD's cruise staff.  

[rkacruiser]

20 hours ago, Hlitner said:

We have an upcoming MSC cruise (back to back 7 day cruises) where we might see some of this stuff

 

It's likely that you will see this if my cruise on Meraviglia was any indication.  I was a YC guest, but, I enjoyed wandering around the rest of the ship at times.  The games that I saw took place at the mid-ship's pool and were quite humorous to watch.  On Meraviglia, there is a lounge on the deck above the pool that overlooks the deck and the area where the games took place.  That was a comfortable, air-conditioned space to watch the games.  (And, it has a bar, if it is open.)  I also found that when the bartenders outside of YC saw that you were a YC guest, the pours were most generous.  This was at the bar in the Meraviglia Lounge and at the mid-ships pool bar.  

 

One thing that I noticed about MSC in comparison to my cruises in the same time period on HAL and Princess was the larger size of the CD's cruise staff.  

[ldubs]

21 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

This is a genuine slippery slope.  When you get right down to it many things were better in past years. Does anyone think airline flights are more enjoyable than they were several years ago?  Does anyone who travelled on old sleeping cars think Amtrak sleepers are more comfortable - or the food in railroad dining cars better?

 

Of course many things now are far better than in the past - but when it comes to non-essentials, as in the case of leisure travel, things do seem to have gone in the other direction.  Yes: more affordable - but only at the cost of diluting the experience.

 

In the old days before tightened security, things were easier at airports. But otherwise I'll take the tech progress over what we had several years ago.  I've gotten rid of my horse and buggy, and since I couldn't figure out how to plug it into the internet, I threw away the typewriter.  😀😀😀

 

Don't know about RR sleepers.  Never used one and don't have any plans to experience that.   

[rkacruiser]

40 minutes ago, ldubs said:

In the old days before tightened security, things were easier at airports.

 

Those days, even before 2001, flying most often was a pleasant experience.  It was a civilized experience.  Who ever heard of a passenger fighting with another passenger or attacking a flight attendant?  Even after 2001 when more security had to be put into place, flying was not really unpleasant.  It's only in recent years that society has changed so significantly that one has to wonder when one boards a flight:  will I witness a fight between guests or a flight attendant attacked?  Why has this change in our society taken place?  For what good does such a change do?  

[wcook]

53 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

Those days, even before 2001, flying most often was a pleasant experience.

Obviously somebody never flew People Express. 

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

In the old days before tightened security, things were easier at airports. But otherwise I'll take the tech progress over what we had several years ago.  I've gotten rid of my horse and buggy, and since I couldn't figure out how to plug it into the internet, I threw away the typewriter.  😀😀😀

 

Don't know about RR sleepers.  Never used one and don't have any plans to experience that.   

Somehow that “tech progress” has not done much in controlling last minute flight cancellations.  It certainly has not improved passenger behavior on the flights that do go, nor has it done much in providing seat width or leg room.   With or without “tech progress” I do not think the flying experience has improved “…over what we had several years ago.”

[marco]

Started crusing back in the 60's.  It wasn't "better" or "worse", it was just different.  But then, what else isn't from the 60's to now?

[whogo]

Better in the 1990's:

1. We were younger.

2. Ports were not as overrun with tourists.

3. No upcharge items in the restaurants.

4. Waiters showed off trays of that night's desserts.

5. Service was more formal, more polished.

6. More cruise staff ran more activities.

7. Ships were smaller, quirkier. I remember our Regent Star cabin with its exposed pipes, humongous bathtub, and portholes with the steel covers and wingnuts and all. One had to negotiate a few stairs while staying on the same deck. The pool was inside on a lower deck.

8. Ships had libraries and librarians.

9. No one thought of serving only sustainable fish.

10. We saw bigger names perform onboard.

11. I watched some skeet shooting, wish I had partaken.

 

Worse in the 1990's:

1. No auto tipping. Passing out envelopes to staff was a nuisance and I hated tipping the smarmy headwaiters who made small talk badly and did not seem to help their waiters in the least.

2. No TV.

3. No internet.

4. No easy way to comparison shop for cruises. No easy way to book independent excursions.

5. Assigned dining times and assigned table mates were hit or miss. I pity the poor middle aged man who was seated the first night with my family of four including two young children. Never saw him again, assume he changed tables, the experience might have killed him.

 

[bonsai3s]

47 minutes ago, whogo said:

Better in the 1990's:

1. We were younger.

2. Ports were not as overrun with tourists.

3. No upcharge items in the restaurants.

4. Waiters showed off trays of that night's desserts.

5. Service was more formal, more polished.

6. More cruise staff ran more activities.

7. Ships were smaller, quirkier. I remember our Regent Star cabin with its exposed pipes, humongous bathtub, and portholes with the steel covers and wingnuts and all. One had to negotiate a few stairs while staying on the same deck. The pool was inside on a lower deck.

8. Ships had libraries and librarians.

9. No one thought of serving only sustainable fish.

10. We saw bigger names perform onboard.

11. I watched some skeet shooting, wish I had partaken.

 

Worse in the 1990's:

1. No auto tipping. Passing out envelopes to staff was a nuisance and I hated tipping the smarmy headwaiters who made small talk badly and did not seem to help their waiters in the least.

2. No TV.

3. No internet.

4. No easy way to comparison shop for cruises. No easy way to book independent excursions.

5. Assigned dining times and assigned table mates were hit or miss. I pity the poor middle aged man who was seated the first night with my family of four including two young children. Never saw him again, assume he changed tables, the experience might have killed him.

 

Love your list...brought back a lot of fond memories...yes, much younger and didn't know any better...sigh.

 

A few things I can remember:

- Hitting golf balls out into the ocean from the top deck...looking at my picture, they put a harness around my chest in case I fall off.

 

- Yup, I tried skeet shooting...crazy.

 

- Gosh, those exposed pipes leaked and my dad ended up with a free  cruise. (May he rest in peace.)

 

- Ice carvings...huge blocks of ice carved by the pool. 

 

- And don't forget the extremely intricate and detailed food carvings...midnight buffets were nice, but IMHO wasteful.

 

- Sommeliers in the dining room.

 

- Chocolates placed by your pillows in the evening.

 

- Used to own a tux...happy not to have to bring it...* although, I must admit,  the formal pictures looked impressive then compared to today.

 

- Clothing optional...who remembers walking around and finding this spot on the ship?

 

Ok, I better stop...but just one more.

- What about those thick packages mailed to you containing all your cruise documents, fancy luggage tags, and seemingly unending cruise brochures.

 

Happy to still be cruising with my beautiful and wonderful wife. 

[MCC retired]

Cruising was Cruising back in the 70’s , 80 ‘s and 90’s .

Today it has evolved to something else .

Not bad , but not Cruising as I remember .

[Honolulu Blue]

@whogo:  Thank you for the list.  Please allow me to comment further on a few of your items:

 

• Yes, we were all younger in the 90s.  Some of us, it could be argued, were too young to appreciate cruises back then.  And some of us here were born in the 90s or even later.
• I think the ability to purchase extra cost items is an advantage.  Options are a good thing, IMHO.  Ditto the availability of specialty restaurants (extra cost or not) on the vast majority of cruise ships these days.
• Some people like big ships for varied reasons - one of them is that they have more things to do that require minimal or no staff
• I hadn't thought about entertainment back then.  Was there really more CD staff?  Were there really more crew-hosted activities?  Color me skeptical.
• I did a couple of theme cruises earlier this year that had some big names - especially back in the 90s or earlier.  Modesty forces me not to name them. 😁

 

P.S.  @bonsai3s:  Also thank you for your list.  I didn't have anything to react to here, but your perspective is certainly appreciated.

[rkacruiser]

bonsai3s and whogo:  excellent lists, much with which I agree.  

 

Honolulu Blue, you make some interesting and good points.  

59 minutes ago, Honolulu Blue said:

• Some people like big ships for varied reasons - one of them is that they have more things to do that require minimal or no staff
• I hadn't thought about entertainment back then.  Was there really more CD staff?  Were there really more crew-hosted activities?  Color me skeptical.

 

Your first bullet point is one that I have not considered.  You are correct that there are more activities that require fewer CC staff.  Having those kinds of activities would lead to a logical reduction in the need for CC staff.

 

Regarding your second bullet point:  Yes, there were larger CD staffs.  There were more CD staff directed activities.  Musical groups, particularly the band that provided live music for the main theater shows, had more musicians.  On some cruise lines, the musical entertainment was more varied.  (I particularly am thinking of HAL.)  

 

I don't think either of these two points of yours are good or bad.  They are just "different" from my early cruise experiences.  But, if I had a choice, I prefer a "return to yesteryear" regarding both of your points.  

[navybankerteacher]

On 8/12/2022 at 11:23 AM, dolittle said:

I am pretty sure Carnival's Red Frog pub has one . So does the Oasis of the Seas ,it is free.

 

If you mean a platform that both the table and player stand on, it would make sense.  But if the pool table is on gimbals and the player is standing on a pitching deck , the edge of the table would be consistently moving relative to his hands and cue — think about it a bit.

Edited August 13, 2022 by navybankerteacher

[ldubs]

On 8/12/2022 at 5:52 PM, rkacruiser said:

 

Those days, even before 2001, flying most often was a pleasant experience.  It was a civilized experience.  Who ever heard of a passenger fighting with another passenger or attacking a flight attendant?  Even after 2001 when more security had to be put into place, flying was not really unpleasant.  It's only in recent years that society has changed so significantly that one has to wonder when one boards a flight:  will I witness a fight between guests or a flight attendant attacked?  Why has this change in our society taken place?  For what good does such a change do?  

 

On 8/12/2022 at 7:14 PM, navybankerteacher said:

Somehow that “tech progress” has not done much in controlling last minute flight cancellations.  It certainly has not improved passenger behavior on the flights that do go, nor has it done much in providing seat width or leg room.   With or without “tech progress” I do not think the flying experience has improved “…over what we had several years ago.”

 

You guys make very good points about passenger behavior and I have to agree.   And sadly,  the issues you point out are not limited to air travel.   The pandemic has had an impact on the scheduling and passenger behavior.  However, I don't think we can place all the blame on the pandemic.  I have theories on why this has changed in our society.  In a display of incredible restraint, I'll keep my peace.  

 

Are seat width and leg room in main cabins really much different?  I didn't think so, at least for the long haul flights.  Some airlines have a little more room than others.  I started to routinely travel by air in the late 70's.   To me legroom in main cabins has always been too tight.    

 

For a flight of any length at all, I'll take a wide-body over a 737 any day.  More range.  We can do more nonstops.  We can get there quicker.   I also like the in-seat entertainment and wifi compared to the old days.  And the no smoking policy is a vast improvement over the good ol days where every armrest had an ashtray. This alone would keep me from ever going back.       

 

In the old days it was a lot easier to make last minute flight changes.  Even at the gate and even with different carriers than originally ticketed.   

 

One thing that hasn't really changed is the on board meals.  Still kind of yucky. 😀

[rkacruiser]

16 hours ago, ldubs said:

 I have theories on why this has changed in our society.  In a display of incredible restraint, I'll keep my peace.  

 

😀   As do I, but, this isn't the site to discuss those thoughts.

 

16 hours ago, ldubs said:

To me legroom in main cabins has always been too tight.    

 

My first flight was an American Airlines 727 from DAY to LGA in 1969.  I don't recall legroom or seat comfort being a concern.  That opinion changed as time went on.  (The one thing that did concern me was when we coming in for a landing, saw the flaps were being deployed, and saw space as the metal was extended!  Didn't expect that.  My seat mate must have thought he was sitting next to an idiot when I voiced my surprise.)

 

16 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

 

16 hours ago, ldubs said:

One thing that hasn't really changed is the on board meals.  Still kind of yucky

 

That first flight was a dinner flight (I was in Coach).  A nicely prepared dinner that looked good and tasted good.  Agree, that meal service has been on a downswing for years.  But, when I began flying First or Business Class, I have been generally pleased with what I have been served.  On a United First Class flight in 1977 from LAX to ORD, Rack of Lamb, carved at your seat, was my entree.  Don't find that now even in international Business Class.  

[ldubs]

4 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

😀   As do I, but, this isn't the site to discuss those thoughts.

 

 

My first flight was an American Airlines 727 from DAY to LGA in 1969.  I don't recall legroom or seat comfort being a concern.  That opinion changed as time went on.  (The one thing that did concern me was when we coming in for a landing, saw the flaps were being deployed, and saw space as the metal was extended!  Didn't expect that.  My seat mate must have thought he was sitting next to an idiot when I voiced my surprise.)

 

 

 

That first flight was a dinner flight (I was in Coach).  A nicely prepared dinner that looked good and tasted good.  Agree, that meal service has been on a downswing for years.  But, when I began flying First or Business Class, I have been generally pleased with what I have been served.  On a United First Class flight in 1977 from LAX to ORD, Rack of Lamb, carved at your seat, was my entree.  Don't find that now even in international Business Class.  

 

First class in the old days, I admit, had decent food service.  I guess you are convincing me to come around to your way of thinking.    

[rkacruiser]

11 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

First class in the old days, I admit, had decent food service.  I guess you are convincing me to come around to your way of thinking.    

 

It's easy to forget what travel was like when the airlines were regulated and before 2001.  This thinking applies to rail travel in the days before Amtrak.  Dining on many of the "name" trains was an enticement to travel on the Super Chief or the City of Los Angeles, etc.  Even on the "not famous" trains, there was pride and quality in the meals prepared and served in the dining cars.  

 

Related to this thread, was it better?  Yes.  Just as the changes that have taken place in cruising, it is surely different.  Will things continue to change, and I think, improve?  Even on Amtrak, a return to a better standard of dining on their LD trains is beginning to make a comeback.  When something has hit rock bottom--there's no where to go but up.  

[cruisemom42]

16 hours ago, ldubs said:

Are seat width and leg room in main cabins really much different?  I didn't think so, at least for the long haul flights.  Some airlines have a little more room than others.  I started to routinely travel by air in the late 70's.   To me legroom in main cabins has always been too tight.

 

According to this article, both the width of main cabin seats and the pitch (space between seats) has shrunk by about 2 inches in the last two decades.....

 

That may not seem like a lot but that 10% reduction in seat width and reduced leg room makes it pretty uncomfortable for your average-sized adult.

 

[navybankerteacher]

17 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

 

You guys make very good points about passenger behavior and I have to agree.   And sadly,  the issues you point out are not limited to air travel.   The pandemic has had an impact on the scheduling and passenger behavior.  However, I don't think we can place all the blame on the pandemic.  I have theories on why this has changed in our society.  In a display of incredible restraint, I'll keep my peace.  

 

Are seat width and leg room in main cabins really much different?  I didn't think so, at least for the long haul flights.  Some airlines have a little more room than others.  I started to routinely travel by air in the late 70's.   To me legroom in main cabins has always been too tight.    

 

For a flight of any length at all, I'll take a wide-body over a 737 any day.  More range.  We can do more nonstops.  We can get there quicker.   I also like the in-seat entertainment and wifi compared to the old days.  And the no smoking policy is a vast improvement over the good ol days where every armrest had an ashtray. This alone would keep me from ever going back.       

 

In the old days it was a lot easier to make last minute flight changes.  Even at the gate and even with different carriers than originally ticketed.   

 

One thing that hasn't really changed is the on board meals.  Still kind of yucky. 😀

Not only have average seat widths and legroom shrunk over the past 20 years, the average American has gained weight and girth, and over the last couple of years the number of flight rage incidents has soared.   Yes, much of the equipment (other than individual space) has improved but the passengers sure haven’t —— and: WHAT on board meals?

[iancal]

Prices for air travel  have decreased significantly in real terms. 

 

Yet people still expect fillet mignon and wine on  longer haul routes.

 

Not to mention the same level of service.

 

This is the reality of air travel today.

Edited August 14, 2022 by iancal

[Wick5by5]

I agree with a lot that has been said- some things better, much has been improved though.  One thing that was much better was... it was a vacation.  I wasn't checking work emails on board back then.  Now, work follows me even on ship in far away places.

[ldubs]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

According to this article, both the width of main cabin seats and the pitch (space between seats) has shrunk by about 2 inches in the last two decades.....

 

That may not seem like a lot but that 10% reduction in seat width and reduced leg room makes it pretty uncomfortable for your average-sized adult.

 

 

2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Not only have average seat widths and legroom shrunk over the past 20 years, the average American has gained weight and girth, and over the last couple of years the number of flight rage incidents has soared.   Yes, much of the equipment (other than individual space) has improved but the passengers sure haven’t —— and: WHAT on board meals?

 

Thanks folks.  I guess because I'm tall I've always thought the main cabin was cramped.  Two inches less pitch is no good at all.  Width not so much a problem, though I freely admit I had to shed a few pandemic pounds.  

 

I don't think I have not been on a flight that did not include onboard meals.  Well, except regional flights of course.   Even if you have to purchase them in the main cabin, I would say they are not very good.  Maybe just OK.