Coming Back

[Xcelsior]

8 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Have you been reading the Celebrity forum on Cruise Critic lately?  Lots of unhappy people there over cutbacks...

 

And on the Oceania forum, there are lots of complaints about last-minute changes to schedules that reduce time in ports, which remains Azamara's biggest strength.

With regard to reduced time in ports, it was curious on the January 5 Onward cruise that we were always the very first ship to leave port.  I pointed this out to several of my fellow cruisers and they were also equally surprised.  I also don't understand why everyone thinks this is such an important distinction that puts Azamara above others since the late departures (when they do happen) are always the White Night or the Azamazing event --- so since everybody wants to be onboard for White Night (me included) I don't see this as being any type of advantage or destination immersion experience whatsoever.  It's a night on the ship, or a somewhat disappointing shore excursion in the evening (although I know some of the Azamazing evenings are truly special or noteworthy).  As an example, we didn't arrive in Dominica until 1:00pm.  When we left the previous port the day before, Aida was still tied up.  When we arrived in Dominica, Aida was already there - in fact they had been there all morning...and once again, left Dominica after we did.  We would have loved the extra time in port that day.  Also, we left Tortola at 2pm so we could crawl back to Miami for 2.5 days.  Again, half day in port was cut while the NCL ship remained.  Not sure if this was a cost savings for Azamara....but it was certainly noticed and annoying for passengers on a line that claims it spends much more time in port!  Just because they say so...doesn't make it true.  It's just marketing nonsense for the most part.

 

I also want to add that Azamara did not provide a single shuttle service on the Jan 5 Onward cruise - another thing they claim that sets them apart from the mainstream lines.  This could have been provided in both St. Thomas and Barbados.  Had the ship been in Europe I'm sure they would have organized....but why not in Caribbean ports?  I was told by reception that shore excursion staff were trying to organize for Barbados, but that it just didn't happen for whatever reason.

Edited January 25, 2023 by Xcelsior

[Host Jazzbeau]

The cost savings canard has been debunked by Cruise Critic’s resident (retired) Chief Engineer, who recently stated that port charges are based on 24 hours, so arriving later or leaving early doesn’t save any money. 

[Xcelsior]

Perhaps sailing slower to the next port does?  I don't get it.

[Host Jazzbeau]

7 minutes ago, Xcelsior said:

Perhaps sailing slower to the next port does?  I don't get it.

He also pooh-poohed that. Maintaining hotel functions (in port or underway) uses a huge amount of energy. Add in the cost of running even slowly, and the extra cost of a little extra speed is negligible. [We’re not talking about ‘warp speed’ to maintain normal itineraries.]  Sometimes there just isn’t a conspiracy to support the theory. 

[takemewithyou]

2 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

The cost savings canard has been debunked by Cruise Critic’s resident (retired) Chief Engineer, who recently stated that port charges are based on 24 hours, so arriving later or leaving early doesn’t save any money. 

Do you have a link to this?  I guess I missed it.  Thanks!

[Host Jazzbeau]

1 hour ago, takemewithyou said:

Do you have a link to this?  I guess I missed it.  Thanks!

I’m on a plane at the moment. I will look for it when I can.

 

Thanks to T-Mobile free internet on Delta, I was able to find the posts. Let’s see if this works.  [click on the time stamp in the blue area at the top of each link to see the full post]

 

 

 

[Lookyboy]

On 1/24/2023 at 6:26 PM, Xcelsior said:

I can only speak to my own experiences.  I was on the Millennium in November and the Solstice in December.  I rank the Millennium the best service and food I have had on a cruise in many, many years.  It was absolutely excellent.  The Solstice had its challenges - mainly with the condition of the ship as it badly needs to be drydocked and refurbished in several areas - but the food in Blu was not as good as the MDR was on Millennium which shocked me.  I think ship to ship in all lines can be big differences in quality of food and service.  The Onward was not a great experience or value for the dollar in my opinion compared to Celebrity - that being said, I have another cruise booked on Onward as I am not going to let one less than great experience define the entire line or the ship in the future.  I just think it's a work in progress and they need to do better.

 

[Lookyboy]

After many Azamara cruises, we tried Celebrity  Silhouette. .....erm NO ....Not for us

Very subjective, I know, no thank you.

[hangover]

Hello from Miami

Just completed the first leg of our three cruises. The ship had 611 guest on this cruise which stretched things in relation to service etc. Once again it was the staff who arose to the occasion and continued to give 110% effort. Second leg of the journey there will be 550 guest so we will see how things go. When the ship is near capacity things are very crowded. If you wanted a deck chair in the shade you had to be on deck by 730AM on sea days . Prior to getting on the Onward we did a Princess cruise and we never felt the need to be on deck by 7am to get what we wanted. Food was good  and we ate at Prime C a couple of nights but on the last night of the cruise we had a steak in the MDR  and it was the best steak I had on a cruise ship in a number of years ahead of Prime C

Currently its 145pm 15 minutes before the next influx of guest arrive 😀

 

[excitedofharpenden]

On 1/24/2023 at 6:19 PM, lisiamc said:

It’s fortunate that those who feel that Celebrity is a better fit have choices available to them.

I agree. Just goes to show why having choices is good. IMHO Celebrity is not a step up from Azamara. The class system of suites and the rest is not for me. It's getting even worse because the class system operates within the fleet (Edge class vs other ships).   No thanks.  They tout themselves as luxury (modern luxury whatever that means?). I've always found Azamara to be a more honest product with consistent service. I've had some real service  downers with Celebrity.  And the food is not as good unless you pay extra and are able to eat in Luminae and then you have to stay in a suite or be invited by a suite guest. 

 

Phil 

[Stateroom_Sailor]

On 1/24/2023 at 8:45 AM, Host Jazzbeau said:

Have you been reading the Celebrity forum on Cruise Critic lately?  Lots of unhappy people there over cutbacks...

 

And on the Oceania forum, there are lots of complaints about last-minute changes to schedules that reduce time in ports, which remains Azamara's biggest strength.

 

We quit Celebrity in 2019.  There were mass shortages, hardly any vegetables on our entire cruise, amongst other problems.  I believe things got better before they started to decline again.  Luckily we snagged an Open Passage on Azarama while onboard X.

 

Holland America was great in 2019, but current reviews are atrocious!  We're burning through our gfitcards, and looking at the Luxury-Light/Super-Premium markets.

[Host Jazzbeau]

3 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

looking at the Luxury-Light/Super-Premium markets.

Frankly I think this the sweet spot for cruising.

The posters focused on Luxury are never happy because nothing is perfect and nothing less than perfect is acceptable.

 

Mass market posters see cutback after cutback despite price increases, and that will continue until those lines pay down the enormous debt they took on during the shutdown.

 

The  super premium lines (esp Azamara and Viking) are exempt from those debt loads, and I believe they understand that they existence depends on distinguishing themselves from the mass market on quality while keeping prices below the luxury lines. (I hope NCLH gives Oceania a bye on the debt issue, or they will ruin it.)

[vtgumby]

We just got off Azamara Pursuit and found both service and food lacking from our last in January 2020.

Dining room was hit or miss for dinner, we stopped going but we did do a lunch and it was much better. They slam their servers at dinner and some can handle it but our different array of servers just couldn’t…waiting thirty minutes for a cold app is crazy.

Buffet has less items and frankly not as good. One guy at the carving station so on Greek and Mediterranean night he methodically put gyros together that took minimally three minutes per…why not have two guys doing this? Eggs in the morning were the same, one guy although at the end they DID add another person but what’s the thinking there? We DID have some standouts in buffet service (Indra and Pyeush) but truthfully we were often ignored despite smiling and patiently waiting and finally just getting up for our own water and wine, sometimes after we had eaten. Some servers would look at you, empty trays in hand, and just walk by, it was crazy but like I said, self service worked! Or waving your hand at them but that’s not amazing service by any means.

Bar service was great, I was impressed with the Cabaret lounge servers, they definitely worked the crowd.

We had early departure from Antarctica, a full day which was quite disappointing (a reason Azamara shouldn’t be doing this trip if they can’t handle Drakes 20-30’ waves) and then the SLOW 8 knots to the Falklands and the captain could have EASILY arrived an hour earlier and left an hour later but no, confined to a 3 pm last tender. Several people asked if that had been extended (after losing an hour out of their two hr excursion) but were told no, last tender is there, pointing at it at 3 pm. We STUPIDLY loaded up being rule followers and there were tender after tenders after…we watched from the ship as 74+/- 2 people got off a tender at 4:30 pm, 12% of the passenger load which was ridiculous. This should have been extended for EVERYONE so lucky 12% that didn’t follow the rules, the rest of us suckers got screwed. Quite disheartening.

We feel Azamara has slid down quite a bit and I’m sure it’s happened to all of them post Covid as they try to make up their cash but running out of bagels on day 2 of a 17 day cruise isn’t a good sign. Btw, zero lobster despite offering it and then delivering giant butterflied prawns. I actually thought that was amusing but definitely a bait and switch.
We honestly can’t be their cheerleader anymore, what they used to be isn’t close to today’s reality. It didn’t help that we just came off Windstar which I always considered the same class as Azamara but Windstar hands down kicked their butts.

I will say they nailed their Azamazing evening however, day two of the cruise and we thought “this is going to be great” but quickly found out they started strong and ended up quite weak.

I hope they get it back but our cruise dollars will go elsewhere for awhile.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

18 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Frankly I think this the sweet spot for cruising.

The posters focused on Luxury are never happy because nothing is perfect and nothing less than perfect is acceptable.

 

Mass market posters see cutback after cutback despite price increases, and that will continue until those lines pay down the enormous debt they took on during the shutdown.

 

The  super premium lines (esp Azamara and Viking) are exempt from those debt loads, and I believe they understand that they existence depends on distinguishing themselves from the mass market on quality while keeping prices below the luxury lines. (I hope NCLH gives Oceania a bye on the debt issue, or they will ruin it.)

 

I agree about the sweet spot, especially when it comes to value compared to declining conditions the next level down.  I'm even seeing occasional deals on Luxury Lines.  Seabourn going from Iceland to Denmark, $2,700.  Nearly the same itinerary, same number of days, same size cabin (entry level suite), HAL is charging $2,100.  Seabourn's price includes drinks, specialty dining, gratuities, and port charges.

 

I truly believe that the mass market overbuilt, as if we'd never see another recession, poop cruise, or any kind of global crisis ever again.  Just within the time we've sailed from 2011 - 2019, there we very steady and noticeable cuts.  The super premium lines were in better health to survive the shutdowns.

 

 

[federalexpress]

3 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

I agree about the sweet spot, especially when it comes to value compared to declining conditions the next level down.  I'm even seeing occasional deals on Luxury Lines.  Seabourn going from Iceland to Denmark, $2,700.  Nearly the same itinerary, same number of days, same size cabin (entry level suite), HAL is charging $2,100.  Seabourn's price includes drinks, specialty dining, gratuities, and port charges.

 

I truly believe that the mass market overbuilt, as if we'd never see another recession, poop cruise, or any kind of global crisis ever again.  Just within the time we've sailed from 2011 - 2019, there we very steady and noticeable cuts.  The super premium lines were in better health to survive the shutdowns.

 

 

 But Seabourn is Carnival, no? So the debt is around them too.

[Host Jazzbeau]

11 minutes ago, federalexpress said:

 But Seabourn is Carnival, no? So the debt is around them too.

And Seabourn traditionalists are upset that Carnival bought them and is making cutbacks.  Carnival only buys lines that are in trouble, so of course they have to make cuts to get a workable business plan.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

59 minutes ago, federalexpress said:

 But Seabourn is Carnival, no? So the debt is around them too.

 

Yes they are.  The sooner someone like Sycamore buys these types of assets the better, even if they're rebranded under a new cruise line..  We're personally going to stick to the healthy companies such as Azamara and Viking.  One could like Seabourn's reviews in January 2023, but there's no telling what cuts will be implemented by the time of embarkation.

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by Stateroom_Sailor

[gardenbunny]

It currently has to be very trying times for All cruise lines.  Just coming off all the CDC protocols, getting all their fleet back in operation, staff and crew shortages, supply issues, fuel costs, not all ports of call are back to pre-pandemic status with staff, local excursion contractors are not completely up and running….and on and on … and then trying to meet debt obligations.  Yikes - and not just one cruise line or parent company, but every single one in the industry - not just the US market.

I am just thankful I can finally travel overseas again after waiting 2 full years!  My first Azamara, also, leaving Tokyo March 19 on Quest Japan 15 day Intensive!

DH and I were just talking about our schedule every day on board - get up, look out window to see what weather and port looks like, eat breakfast, take excursion seeing all new and different places, back to ship, have dinner, sleep and repeat 13 more days.  LOL

So whatever it will be, it will be all good and great!!!

 

[luv2travel90266]

38 minutes ago, gardenbunny said:

It currently has to be very trying times for All cruise lines.  Just coming off all the CDC protocols, getting all their fleet back in operation, staff and crew shortages, supply issues, fuel costs, not all ports of call are back to pre-pandemic status with staff, local excursion contractors are not completely up and running….and on and on … and then trying to meet debt obligations.  Yikes - and not just one cruise line or parent company, but every single one in the industry - not just the US market.

I am just thankful I can finally travel overseas again after waiting 2 full years!  My first Azamara, also, leaving Tokyo March 19 on Quest Japan 15 day Intensive!

DH and I were just talking about our schedule every day on board - get up, look out window to see what weather and port looks like, eat breakfast, take excursion seeing all new and different places, back to ship, have dinner, sleep and repeat 13 more days.  LOL

So whatever it will be, it will be all good and great!!!

 

Wow. I couldn’t have said it better!! I am so happy to be on a cruise in under 2 months from today. 

[Mackdogmolly]

11 hours ago, luv2travel90266 said:

Wow. I couldn’t have said it better!! I am so happy to be on a cruise in under 2 months from today. 

37 days here , but who’s counting?! 😂

[Grandma Cruising]

48 minutes ago, Mackdogmolly said:

37 days here , but who’s counting?! 😂

👍

[travelberlin]

On 1/28/2023 at 12:21 AM, Host Jazzbeau said:

Frankly I think this the sweet spot for cruising.

The posters focused on Luxury are never happy because nothing is perfect and nothing less than perfect is acceptable.

 

Mass market posters see cutback after cutback despite price increases, and that will continue until those lines pay down the enormous debt they took on during the shutdown.

 

The  super premium lines (esp Azamara and Viking) are exempt from those debt loads, and I believe they understand that they existence depends on distinguishing themselves from the mass market on quality while keeping prices below the luxury lines. (I hope NCLH gives Oceania a bye on the debt issue, or they will ruin it.)

Are you sure Azamara does not have financial problems? How did the owners finance the new ship Onward? No debts? Actually I am more concerned now about the future of Azamara then when I knew it was the “luxury” daughter from Royal Caribbean. Royal has decided to go for Silversea investing whatever is necessary to make Silversea their “luxury” ships, and sold Azamara. If, on the long run, this is good for Azamara, time will tell. 
 

Ivi

[Host Jazzbeau]

43 minutes ago, travelberlin said:

Are you sure Azamara does not have financial problems? How did the owners finance the new ship Onward? No debts? Actually I am more concerned now about the future of Azamara then when I knew it was the “luxury” daughter from Royal Caribbean. Royal has decided to go for Silversea investing whatever is necessary to make Silversea their “luxury” ships, and sold Azamara. If, on the long run, this is good for Azamara, time will tell. 
 

Ivi

I didn’t say ‘no’ debt, I said not the crushing amount of debt that RCG and the other two have taken on. Azamara went so cheap that it hardly compares to the mortgages those big conglomerates were forced to take on. 

[lisiamc]

37 minutes ago, travelberlin said:

Are you sure Azamara does not have financial problems? How did the owners finance the new ship Onward? No debts? Actually I am more concerned now about the future of Azamara then when I knew it was the “luxury” daughter from Royal Caribbean. Royal has decided to go for Silversea investing whatever is necessary to make Silversea their “luxury” ships, and sold Azamara. If, on the long run, this is good for Azamara, time will tell. 
 

Ivi

No, I’m not completely sure, but what I have heard/read is that Royal Caribbean took on atmospheric levels of debt to weather Covid. Selling off Azamara was, or at least became, part of their survival strategy. Sycamore bought Azamara at a bargain basement price, which I think has turned out to be a good move, for them, and certainly for us as cruisers. At least one of Sycamore’s businesses (a winery) probably did quite well during the pandemic. (I know we bought quite a bit of wine while we were in lock-down!) They have a proportionally small investment that they would like to either keep or sell off as a going concern. They stayed on course with the purchase and refurbishment of Onward, and there is talk of wanting at least one new-build ship. I think I have reason to be optimistic about Azamara getting out from under the heavy yoke of RCCL.

[travelberlin]

8 minutes ago, lisiamc said:

No, I’m not completely sure, but what I have heard/read is that Royal Caribbean took on atmospheric levels of debt to weather Covid. Selling off Azamara was, or at least became, part of their survival strategy. Sycamore bought Azamara at a bargain basement price, which I think has turned out to be a good move, for them, and certainly for us as cruisers. At least one of Sycamore’s businesses (a winery) probably did quite well during the pandemic. (I know we bought quite a bit of wine while we were in lock-down!) They have a proportionally small investment that they would like to either keep or sell off as a going concern. They stayed on course with the purchase and refurbishment of Onward, and there is talk of wanting at least one new-build ship. I think I have reason to be optimistic about Azamara getting out from under the heavy yoke of RCCL.

Thanks for your detailed answer. I really hope that your optimism is right, and most important that Azamara continues to offer what we have learned to like with this company. 
 

I guess, I am also optimistic because I have booked on board another cruise 😃

 

Ivi
 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by travelberlin