Did Costa Concordia have lasting changes on how you prepare for a cruise?

[Mary229]

From Wikipedia 

 

USN liferafts are stowed in heavy-duty fiberglass canisters and can be launched manually or automatically should the ship begin ………Survival equipment includes: manual reverse osmosis desalinator (MROD), bottles of fresh water, individual food packets, fishing kit, signaling mirror, rocket and smoke flares, flashlight, spare sea anchor, first aid kit, paddles, spare batteries and bulbs, and aluminized mylarsheets ("space blankets") to aid in caring for victims of hypothermia.^[c

[chengkp75]

Nope.  Here is what is required in lifeboats:

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/46/169.529

 

And, what you have quoted from Wiki is for US Navy liferafts, not SOLAS approved lifeboats.  That equipment is listed above the part you quoted, where it says "Equipment to be carried on lifeboats and liferafts.  Been checking lifeboat equipment for 46 years.

[Mary229]

5 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Nope.  Here is what is required in lifeboats:

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/46/169.529

 

And, what you have quoted from Wiki is for US Navy liferafts, not SOLAS approved lifeboats.  That equipment is listed above the part you quoted, where it says "Equipment to be carried on lifeboats and liferafts.  Been checking lifeboat equipment for 46 years.

They need to update their protocols and get in line with FEMA especially when transporting civilians.  I understand the expectation of constant readiness for service personnel but the rest of us can get goofy when presented with an emergency.  I just imagine hoards of people running back to their cabins “dressing for the occasion”. 

[chengkp75]

27 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

They need to update their protocols and get in line with FEMA especially when transporting civilians.  I understand the expectation of constant readiness for service personnel but the rest of us can get goofy when presented with an emergency.  I just imagine hoards of people running back to their cabins “dressing for the occasion”. 

Well, considering that ships are not governed by FEMA, or any other US agency, but by the IMO, and that the US is a signatory nation to SOLAS which regulates shipboard safety and lifesaving equipment, you need to get the majority of 175 member nations to approve an update to SOLAS.

 

And, I certainly did not say to "go to your cabin and dress", I said that "if practicable" you should dress warmly, and if you are in your cabin, it is practicable.  HAL has a 3 stage muster system, where the first stage is for all passengers to return to their cabins to dress appropriately and collect medications, and then await further instructions.  This, I think, is the best passenger muster system out there.

 

Ships don't sink instantly, there is time for an orderly muster process, without rushing around, and it should be done long before any thought of getting people into the lifeboats is even considered.  Passenger muster is about accountability, not getting into boats, so if some are slow getting there because they stopped to dress warmly, and are not in the fire zone, then fine.  This is from someone who ran passenger muster drills for years.

Edited September 30, 2022 by chengkp75

[rkacruiser]

7 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

HAL has a 3 stage muster system, where the first stage is for all passengers to return to their cabins to dress appropriately and collect medications, and then await further instructions.  This, I think, is the best passenger muster system out there.

 

I agree.  Don't remember for certain, but, I think that Princess uses the same system.  

 

33 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I just imagine hoards of people running back to their cabins “dressing for the occasion”. 

 

The passengers on the Prinsendam did not have that choice.  The fire spread sufficiently fast that it was unsafe for one to return to their staterooms to get more appropriate clothes.  It's probably better for one to consider that one will be unable to return to their stateroom during an emergency.  The father and daughter on the Costa Concordia who lost their lives did arrive at their Muster Station only to leave and, presumably, tried to return to their cabin.  

[rkacruiser]

In the video that Capt BJ posted, the young woman showing us around the lifeboat showed a small package of some kind of nutrition that she said would last one person one week.  I could not see what the package said nor did I clearly understand what that package contained.  What kind of "food" is this and how can such a small package contain enough nutrition to last one for 7 days?  What size of serving(s)/day would accomplish its goal?  

[whogo]

Ever since the Costa Concordia disaster I try to find the best spot to be during a real emergency to watch the captain leave.

[Mary229]

1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

The passengers on the Prinsendam did not have that choice.  The fire spread sufficiently fast that it was unsafe for one to return to their staterooms to get more appropriate clothes.

That is why I am cautious telling people how to react in an emergency, many people react poorly or in their panic they latch onto a single piece of advice outside of the context of the situation.  Best advice is follow the crew’s instructions.  If in your room put your shoes on and what you can grab next to your life jacket. Heed whatever instructions you are given regardless of what you may think are the proper procedures.

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, whogo said:

Ever since the Costa Concordia disaster I try to find the best spot to be during a real emergency to watch the captain leave.

 

I do not find your comment amusing.  

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

In the video that Capt BJ posted, the young woman showing us around the lifeboat showed a small package of some kind of nutrition that she said would last one person one week.  I could not see what the package said nor did I clearly understand what that package contained.  What kind of "food" is this and how can such a small package contain enough nutrition to last one for 7 days?  What size of serving(s)/day would accomplish its goal?  

They are basically very dry protein bars, about 2400 calories per person.  While the person in that video said it was supposed to last a week, it is really about 3 days.  800 calories/day is a survival diet for short durations.  Lifeboat rations used to be small granola bars, malted milk balls, and Chuckles.  The rations expire every 5 years, and we used to share out the malted milk balls and Chuckles, but these new protein bars are just nasty, and no one wants them.  The daily ration is about the size of your finger.

[rkacruiser]

3 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

They are basically very dry protein bars, about 2400 calories per person.  While the person in that video said it was supposed to last a week, it is really about 3 days.  800 calories/day is a survival diet for short durations.  Lifeboat rations used to be small granola bars, malted milk balls, and Chuckles.  The rations expire every 5 years, and we used to share out the malted milk balls and Chuckles, but these new protein bars are just nasty, and no one wants them.  The daily ration is about the size of your finger.

 

Thank you for your response.  Malted milk balls, Chuckles, and granola bars sound quite acceptable.  Since the new provisions are so dry, is the amount amount of 500 ml of water/day really adequate?  (But, such a diet might encourage the kidneys to reduce their daily output?)  

[chengkp75]

5 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Thank you for your response.  Malted milk balls, Chuckles, and granola bars sound quite acceptable.  Since the new provisions are so dry, is the amount amount of 500 ml of water/day really adequate?  (But, such a diet might encourage the kidneys to reduce their daily output?)  

500 ml/day is about the minimum water required to survive for about 2 weeks.  Since I've only tried the survival bars in a non-emergency situation, I can't say how they would effect your water requirement.  But, remember, you are in a life or death situation in a lifeboat, comfort or dry mouth is not considered.

[CruiserBruce]

As I mentioned in my post way back at #2, people reacting appropriately and according to directions is really pretty important to all this talk about being dressed warmly, etc. In our most recent experience with inappropriate behavior, we had a fire alarm sound at about midnight on a HAL ship, with their excellent 3 step procedures. The Watch officer (notably, a female) came on and directed the crew to respond to a fire in the Lido galley area (small fire, put out mostly by sprinklers) and directed passengers to return to their cabins and await instructions. We were asleep in bed, got up and dressed. After maybe 5 minutes we heard a disturbance in the hallway. I opened the door ( first looked out the peephole, saw people, no smoke) and observed about 20 people stumbling down the hall. They were stumbling because half had their life vests on, the other half were carrying their their vests, with belts dragging and tripping people up, which explains the stumbling. Very surprised no one got hurt.

 

I went to our balcony and could hear people on the promenade deck, by the muster stations. Couldn't see the area, but heard a number of people talking and laughing. A couple minutes after that the Watch officer announced the fire was out, and the alarm had be ended. Back to sleep.

 

Keep in mind, there were NO instructions to respond to muster stations.

[ontheweb]

10 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I do not find your comment amusing.  

I actually laughed, more of a chuckle, before I realized that it was not really funny.

[chengkp75]

11 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Thank you for your response.  Malted milk balls, Chuckles, and granola bars sound quite acceptable.  Since the new provisions are so dry, is the amount amount of 500 ml of water/day really adequate?  (But, such a diet might encourage the kidneys to reduce their daily output?)  

There used to be a requirement for condensed milk in the boats as well.  However, this was commercial Carnation milk, in normal steel cans, which would tend to rust over the 5 years of expected shelf life of boat rations, so they needed to be changed out frequently, as they leaked and made a mess.  Some ships resorted to dipping the cans in hot wax to provide a seal against the sea air.  They eventually decided that the protein bars were a better source of protein than the milk.

[rkacruiser]

18 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

Keep in mind, there were NO instructions to respond to muster stations.

 

In our current societal situations, why am I not surprised at this type of thing happening?  It's "me, me, me"; I will do as I darn well please.  You can't tell me what to do.  I do believe that this is a minority of our fellow citizens.  But, that minority makes life so much more difficult for those of us who learned, long ago, following instructions makes life so much more pleasant.  

 

Those folks at their Muster  Station  would likely be the ones in an airplane accident, if they survived, trying to bring their carry-on down the evacuation slide.  

[navybankerteacher]

23 hours ago, Mary229 said:

They need to update their protocols and get in line with FEMA especially when transporting civilians.  I understand the expectation of constant readiness for service personnel but the rest of us can get goofy when presented with an emergency.  I just imagine hoards of people running back to their cabins “dressing for the occasion”. 

Oh, that’s all we need FEMA directing cruise ship operations. Then why not let the Department of Health Education and Welfare stick their oar in.

[pris993]

On 9/29/2022 at 4:24 AM, CruiserBruce said:

Didn't change a thing, other than we watch other's behavior in times of stress more than we used to. As retired emergency workers (ED Nurse and Firefighter) we have always been prepared, and always watched other's behavior during those times. Just more so.

 

There is an old saying in our business..."you fight the way you train". Muster drills aren't very good training any more. Costa Concordia just highlights that. We have had occasional tests...fire alarms in the middle of the night, for example. Its very concerning when people absolutely don't follow the directions given. I am aware that wasn't the only problem on Costa Concordia, but in our most recent experience, the directions given were very clear, and many still didn't follow them. Everybody knows better that those in charge.

I don't know if true, maybe you do given your emergency experience, but some reports were that some survived who did not follow directions to return to their cabins.  That registered with me, sometimes one does need to use one's own common sense in an emergency.  

[pris993]

19 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

As I mentioned in my post way back at #2, people reacting appropriately and according to directions is really pretty important to all this talk about being dressed warmly, etc. In our most recent experience with inappropriate behavior, we had a fire alarm sound at about midnight on a HAL ship, with their excellent 3 step procedures. The Watch officer (notably, a female) came on and directed the crew to respond to a fire in the Lido galley area (small fire, put out mostly by sprinklers) and directed passengers to return to their cabins and await instructions. We were asleep in bed, got up and dressed. After maybe 5 minutes we heard a disturbance in the hallway. I opened the door ( first looked out the peephole, saw people, no smoke) and observed about 20 people stumbling down the hall. They were stumbling because half had their life vests on, the other half were carrying their their vests, with belts dragging and tripping people up, which explains the stumbling. Very surprised no one got hurt.

 

I went to our balcony and could hear people on the promenade deck, by the muster stations. Couldn't see the area, but heard a number of people talking and laughing. A couple minutes after that the Watch officer announced the fire was out, and the alarm had be ended. Back to sleep.

 

Keep in mind, there were NO instructions to respond to muster stations.

Had a similar incident on the Queen Victoria at midnight, like you we were in bed.  My dh got up and got dressed.  I stayed in bed to waited for further instructions. Captain came on announced false alarm.  Folks need to use common sense.  Next day we learned an island bird, we were off the coast of Bermuda, had gotten into the funnel and cause the problem.                    

[DRS/NC]

My own health has dictated some preparations/changes when I cruise:  I cannot walk well or for long.  I need to use a scooter on the ship & a rollator/walker on land.  Neither of these can be used in an emergency. 

Therefore I always try to book a HA cabin one or two decks above the Promenade deck, where the muster stations usually are (at least on Princess).  In an emergency, w/crew help, I could walk down the stairs.  Walking up stairs certainly wouldn't  work.

 

I always take a set of sweats, even for a Caribbean cruise, "just in case."  I also keep my documents & meds in a zip lock bag in the safe so that I can grab them, if needed.

 

And, YES, I watch the Muster info very carefully and read the guides on the airplane.  I'm an old Girl Scout leader w/first aid certification (now expired) & I know how to listen & follow directions.

[chengkp75]

14 minutes ago, DRS/NC said:

Therefore I always try to book a HA cabin one or two decks above the Promenade deck, where the muster stations usually are (at least on Princess).  In an emergency, w/crew help, I could walk down the stairs.  Walking up stairs certainly wouldn't  work.

If you have notified Guest Services of your accessibility issues, during an actual muster, crew who will lead you to an elevator.  Contrary to popular "knowledge" the elevators work, but are in "firefighter" mode, meaning they cannot be called to a floor from outside the elevator.  There will be crew at the elevator who can call on the radio for the elevator to come to your deck and take you to the deck where the muster stations are.

[CruiserBruce]

3 hours ago, pris993 said:

I don't know if true, maybe you do given your emergency experience, but some reports were that some survived who did not follow directions to return to their cabins.  That registered with me, sometimes one does need to use one's own common sense in an emergency.  

Believe me, common sense can be in critically short supply in emergency situations. 

[Mary229]

4 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Oh, that’s all we need FEMA directing cruise ship operations. Then why not let the Department of Health Education and Welfare stick their oar in.

I did not imply FEMA was directing cruise operations that was someone else’s interpretation.  I was simply saying a foilized thermal blanket is part of the fema kit and is in common usage in many emergency kits.  My own fire departments hands them out for tornado preparedness - though I can’t imagine in Texas I would need a warm blanket during tornado season.    .

[MBP&O2/O]

On 10/1/2022 at 1:15 AM, chengkp75 said:

They are basically very dry protein bars, about 2400 calories per person.  While the person in that video said it was supposed to last a week, it is really about 3 days.  800 calories/day is a survival diet for short durations.  Lifeboat rations used to be small granola bars, malted milk balls, and Chuckles.  The rations expire every 5 years, and we used to share out the malted milk balls and Chuckles, but these new protein bars are just nasty, and no one wants them.  The daily ration is about the size of your finger.

Jealousy rears it's ugly head ... all we had were Barley Sugar sweets and "fresh" water ... stored in a metal container. The water was rancid after a very short while and needed changing every  ouple of weeks or so.

The Barley Sugars were just plain rank 😵‍💫

Edited October 2, 2022 by MBP&O2/O

[Heidi13]

6 hours ago, MBP&O2/O said:

Jealousy rears it's ugly head ... all we had were Barley Sugar sweets and "fresh" water ... stored in a metal container. The water was rancid after a very short while and needed changing every  ouple of weeks or so.

The Barley Sugars were just plain rank 😵‍💫

 

I recall the days of lifeboat water before bottles and bags. Used to be in containers built into the athwartships benches, with dippers to get out samples. It was ghastly. We couldn't give the Barley Sugars away.