Daily Service Charges are now officially out of hand

[cruisingguy007]

9 hours ago, bjlaac said:

Before anyone makes sly remarks, maybe you should think a little or do some simple math.  That $20 daily charge could be as much as 37% for a sail away cabin or 55% if there were 4 passengers in an inside cabin on the cruise referenced.

 

These cabins are priced for a certain class of individual and they "can" afford to cruise.   How many more people are going to say screw it now and just remove the charges altogether.  Going forward, I'm never going to pay more than 20% in gratuities even if that requires an adjustment to the daily charge for no reason at all.  Especially if they have their hands out with envelopes for even more tips.

 

Everyone should do as they wish or feel right.

 

This is actually a really good point. It made me go and look at my upcoming cruise and gratuities are 28.5% of the cruise fare (without taxes/port fees). I did get a good price on the cruise but I hadn't thought of it in these terms. It's quite high when you look at it like this. Very interesting observation! 

[mpdog42]

18 hours ago, dada2199cc said:

Tips mean lower fees, taxes and commissions on the base fare.  If you want to pay 500 middlemen more money, then build it into the fare.

 

I want prices to be higher so fewer cruise ships are overloaded.

 

I actually email RCCL executives regularly asking if they can raise prices 20-30% more.

Not Suprised!!

[PWP-001]

Yes, this is the RCI board while the OP cited an upcoming NCL change they worry will impact RCI.  And while I mention NCL and "another line" the same most likely applies in principal to RCI because each of the lines is competing for the same labor pool and to remain competitive need to offer the same or appear to be offering better benefits.

 

A few years ago I read through NCL's "fine print" as well as the same for another line.  NCL made a point of always referring to it with the words "service charge" tacked on the end, so "Gratuity Service Charge" and "Beverage Gratuity Service Charge" and through everything said, whatever they collect goes directly to NCL's financial statement.  Think of it as a labor cost subsidy.  As others have said here, crew receive a base wage AND... an opportunity for incentive pay IF a cruise hits performance goals that are typically tied to revenue.  "Hey, you wanna make more money?  Then help us make more money by doing the things we've trained you to do."

 

There is NO OBLIGATION on the part of the line to payout any or all of the gratuity service charges they collect.  The incentive program could have five levels of payout, as an example, where hitting LEVEL ONE means a meager (but something) payout and LEVEL FIVE is a lottery-like payout that hardly every happens, but still can, something to strive for.

 

Payouts for the lower levels could easily be less than the total service charges collected.  So it stays with the line and helps reduce their labor costs, while that hypothetical LEVEL FIVE payout (which might happen over what can be demoralizing holiday cruises which ships sailing a max occupancy), those LEVEL FIVE payouts probably exceed what is collected from service charges.  But to achieve that LEVEL FIVE, beverage sales, specialty dining head counts, photos, excursions, etc. where "best ever" far enhancing profitability.

 

So the passenger that removes the auto-gratuity isn't really harming any crew member.  And it would take a substantial number of passengers consistently requesting their removal before there's a noticeable impact on labor cost.  

 

RCI has these tiny chits at Guest Services which breakout the dollar amounts of the daily gratuity by department, and they're happy to give you a copy.  Absent of any verbiage, it allows a guest to draw the most common conclusion that it illustrates how much they pay out.  Believe that only if they were to include  "These are the amounts that we directly distribute and pay out in full."  Ask the GS agent about it?  Nothing they answer is binding, and probably not true either.  They are put in the situation of providing a plausible answer to get the guest to back off and walk away satisfied. 

 

Why isn't it just rolled into the cruise fare?  Simple.  Fares look more attractive and more competitive when it's not included.  Airlines used to do that.  Remember the days when you'd see a great airline ticket for $198 round trip, but at checkout it was $375 because the initial price didn't include passenger facility charges, taxes, fuel surcharges... and probably a few other items that we still pay today.  Regulators now require airlines (in the USA ) to initially display the bottom line price, so today it initially shows $375.  Now regulators have their eyes focused on hotels that display one room rate, then add as much as $50 nightly (plus tax) as a "resort fee" for those items that used to be part of your room charge.  Cruise lines are probably safe from this regulation.

 

On the subject of crew being required to hand over cash gratuities to the line...  In the USA a "tip pool" can be formed if EVERY employee agrees to participate.  The most practical application is a restaurant or private club where the waitstaff all participate.  It works best where most guest checks are paid by credit card and signed (no cash) allowing the house to collect and distribute.  Then, technically, a check settled with cash and cash gratuity is turned in to be accounted for in the pool.  Tip pools work best in smaller  fellow employees have confidence that everyone is working for the team and can see it themselves.  

 

Conceptually, that is how it could be applied in the cruise line industry.  And based upon what someone else has posted, citing a former employee, it seems employees are required to turn over those cash tips for the pool.  Maybe it's just then end of cruise tip envelopes and not the few dollars cash that's left with a signed bar check.  And the hearsay that "if we don't turn over the cash tip in the envelope, we'll get fired."  Well, yes, in a tip pool, that would be grounds for termination, violating their initial employment contract which stated they agreed to participate in the tip pool.  

[chengkp75]

21 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

The current minimum is $1200 USD per month, which is very suitable considering the economic climate most of the workers come from. 

Not sure where this figure comes from, because the mandated minimum wage is $658/month, starting in Jan 2023.

[not-enough-cruising]

6 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Not sure where this figure comes from, because the mandated minimum wage is $658/month, starting in Jan 2023.

Hmm, i got the $1200 figure from one of your posts, you stated the "minimum wage for any sea farer from any nation working a minimum of 70 hours per week is about $1200 per month" - this was from a post in May

[Sea Viewer]

1 hour ago, PWP-001 said:

 

Deleted 

Edited December 9, 2022 by Sea Viewer

[chengkp75]

4 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Hmm, i got the $1200 figure from one of your posts, you stated the "minimum wage for any sea farer from any nation working a minimum of 70 hours per week is about $1200 per month" - this was from a post in May

The $1200 is for a 70 hour work week, but the minimum wage for a 40 hour week is $658.  Regardless of how many hours the worker works, the overtime is not guaranteed, and if the crew contract says that DSC makes up most of the salary, (say the "base wage" is contracted at $400/month), then the cruise line does not need to step in and make up the balance above the $658.  So, while the crew is contracted for $1200/month, it can vary from that down to the minimum, depending on how much DSC is removed.  Sorry if I confused you.  When you get a collective bargaining agreement involved, as nearly all crew have, you can get some really weird conditions.

[DirtyDawg]

STOP ALL THE WHINING!

 

RCL's auto gratuities might be going up...

RCL might cut back on second helpings of cheap lobster tails...

RCL might may cut cabin service back to once per day...

 

If you feel cruising life is so unfair sell your storey to an international streaming service and you'll be able to afford all these possible cost increases with that $100 million they pay you! 

😁

 

I just manged to wring $79.95 out of one of those streaming services for my storey.

Apparently, whining about whiners isn't a big of a sell. 😉 

[smokeybandit]

The people complaining are also the same people that rush to get the unlimited beverage and dining packages the same day they book their cruises.

[grapau27]

22 hours ago, beckyboo1986 said:

It's not a matter of being able to afford it, it's the principal for most.

 

We rarely tip in the UK. People get paid a suitable wage to perform their jobs. Just because that's not the case in other countries...

Personally I tip wherever we eat on land and in all speciality restaurants on board UK ships where tipping is not required plus our autogratuity on RCL.

I think a sensible gratuity amount is acceptable but everyone has to pay it.

It is unfair that some of us pay several hundred dollars auto gratuities while others can stop theirs at guest services when we all get a similar service.

 

[nelblu]

18 hours ago, njkruzer said:

The thing is Royal just raised gratuities effective September 7th.  Imho too soon for another increase. 

Also, if your e docs list the old rate and you prepay prior to cruise, one will pay the rate per the docs. 
 

Does this still apply. 
 

[lovesthebeach2]

3 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

Personally I tip wherever we eat on land and in all speciality restaurants on board UK ships where tipping is not required plus our autogratuity on RCL.

I think a sensible gratuity amount is acceptable but everyone has to pay it.

It is unfair that some of us pay several hundred dollars auto gratuities while others can stop theirs at guest services when we all get a similar service.

 

We have always paid the auto gratuity (service charge) and always tip extra for bar drinks, room steward, servers, etc. If people remove the auto gratuity but then tip in cash to those that provide good service, how does that affect me or you?  Maybe I’m missing something?

 

[Donsyb]

20 hours ago, Guinness1000 said:

What is a suitable wage? A US annual wage of $60k? Indian average of less than $3k? I don't think they will ever pay some of these workers similar wages across the board. It would be interesting to know though how much they pay a crew member from India vs any European country for a similar position.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a European doing the lower paid jobs that e.g an Indian does in a ship, such as staterooom attendant, waiter or bartender. Europeans tend to be in roles such as casino host, retail shops or entertainment, which I would think pay more.

[lovesthebeach2]

If someone removes the auto gratuity, but then gives cash tips to those that they received good service, how is that bad?
The reasoning seems to be that the tips are shared with those in the back like the cooks, dishwashers, laundry crew, etc.

 

So for example, when we stay in a hotel, or go to a restaurant, we don’t go into the kitchen and tip the dishwasher, or prep chef. We don’t go into the laundry of a hotel and tip those that wash the sheets and towels. 
 

Im curious how is it bad to remove the auto gratuity and instead tip Individually to those that deserve it? If they choose to share their tip with those that help them in the back, then  should that be their responsibility?

 

 

[Engineroom Snipe]

38 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

I just manged to wring $79.95 out of one of those streaming services for my storey.

Apparently,

 

You scored big time! They wanted me to buy a subscription before I could even post. 🙃

[Joseph2017China]

14 hours ago, ckmommy said:

FWIW--my son is in Basic Combat Training for the Army.  He is being paid $1400 per month.  He also gets his room and board  included.  Just thought is was ironic the minimum for a cruise line crew member is just about what a US Army member makes.

As for the increase in tips per day, if you are against it, pay in cash to who ever you want.  Tipping is personal and so is everyone's experience. Personally, I rarely (even on vacation) have cash, so I pay for the tips prior to getting on the ship.  

Military pay is a monthly pay, plus a housing allowance pay, and a food allowance pay.  So the actual pay is not $1,400 if you want to compare it to other private pay.  You must add all of them up.  Also, most people have fringe benefits, that are also included in pay, but in the military, it is paid for and it the best for any private industry.  

 

You can't compare the pay for a crew member to the army, and most important, to USA salary ranges either.  For many of the crew, they are making more than if they worked at home, and they are happily doing it. 

[lovesthebeach2]

57 minutes ago, Joseph2017China said:

Military pay is a monthly pay, plus a housing allowance pay, and a food allowance pay.  So the actual pay is not $1,400 if you want to compare it to other private pay.  You must add all of them up.  Also, most people have fringe benefits, that are also included in pay, but in the military, it is paid for and it the best for any private industry.  

 

You can't compare the pay for a crew member to the army, and most important, to USA salary ranges either.  For many of the crew, they are making more than if they worked at home, and they are happily doing it. 

And that’s the reason they love working on cruises. I’ve heard that from many of the crew. They can’t make that kind of money at home

[footzz]

I have some doubts as whether all the crew actually turns over their cash tips into a pool. This is solely based on my observations of their reaction(s) and the swift manner in which a neatly folded up bill goes into their pocket when I discretely 'palm' them a tip. It was meant for them, and them only.

[swoopy2110]

Wish they'd just include the gratuities in the base cruise fare.

[cruiseboy89130]

If you don't like it - just remove it! Just takes a phone call to GS!

 

[Longford]

On 12/8/2022 at 9:24 AM, ARandomTraveler said:

We Americans have a knack for expecting a lot of things without having to pay for them in any way. 

 Speak for your apparent behavior, not that of others.  😇

[Longford]

1 hour ago, Joseph2017China said:

Military pay is a monthly pay, plus a housing allowance pay, and a food allowance pay.  So the actual pay is not $1,400 if you want to compare it to other private pay.  You must add all of them up.  Also, most people have fringe benefits, that are also included in pay, but in the military, it is paid for and it the best for any private industry.  

I'm not so certain the families of active duty military who depend on food stamps think they're being treated so well.

[njkate]

47 minutes ago, swoopy2110 said:

Wish they'd just include the gratuities in the base cruise fare.

Then it would be taxed as well

[Longford]

2 hours ago, lovesthebeach2 said:

If someone removes the auto gratuity, but then gives cash tips to those that they received good service, how is that bad?
The reasoning seems to be that the tips are shared with those in the back like the cooks, dishwashers, laundry crew, etc.

 

I subscribe to the belief that gratuities are not to be provided as a way to relieve an employer of the obligation to pay a fair wage to employees, and appropriate only for service rendered by an individual above and beyond what the employee's job description requires.  

[dada2199cc]

51 minutes ago, swoopy2110 said:

Wish they'd just include the gratuities in the base cruise fare.

 

This is a horrible idea.  Anything in the base fare has to also have commissions, taxes, fees, etc added on.