Single surcharge…help me understand

[Lois R]

2 hours ago, Twickenham said:

 

Do not get me started on the ridiculousness of not being able to get separate bills at US restaurants. But to limit myself to your example - the pasta person should pay $50, and the others the price of their own meals. Anything else would be preposterous.

 

To get back to the subject of the thread. It's interesting that one of the most reasonable single supplements I've ever seen was on Seabourn, a line that I would think relies less on onboard spend than the mainstream lines - I remember years ago them offering 110 % pricing for singles on certain voyages.

Silversea offers multiple choices of lower single supplements for their solo passengers as well.  This is happening on a regular basis with 125% pricing on several voyages.

 

 

[cruisemom42]

6 hours ago, fruitmachine said:

In this case, wouldn't a solo just add their imaginary friend to the booking, who'd then fail to make their connection and miss the sailing time?

 

Some might; I'm not the type that would do something like that. It seems to me you could only get away with that once on a given line. 🙄

 

I just content myself for looking for good deals whether it be a lowered solo supplement (such as Celebrity offered on a slate of cruises last fall) or a deeply discounted entry price for 2 which, even when doubled, was not a bad deal.

 

[cruisemom42]

4 hours ago, Twickenham said:

 

It's interesting that one of the most reasonable single supplements I've ever seen was on Seabourn, a line that I would think relies less on onboard spend than the mainstream lines - I remember years ago them offering 110 % pricing for singles on certain voyages.

 

1 hour ago, Lois R said:

Silversea offers multiple choices of lower single supplements for their solo passengers as well.  This is happening on a regular basis with 125% pricing on several voyages.

 

 

Yes, it's often been the case that some of the luxury lines offer a reasonable solo supplement. At times (assuming 200% on mass market line), this can put traveling on a luxury line within the same price frame for a solo -- and for a much more deluxe onboard experience. 

 

Unfortunately I feel a lot of solo cruisers limit themselves to NCL because the line promotes their solo cabins -- which are small and overpriced -- and solo programming. But almost all ships have a friendly onboard atmosphere making it easy for solos to socialize with others if they wish, and also solos are usually well treated by crew. 

 

 

 

 

[CPT Trips]

7 hours ago, fruitmachine said:

In this case, wouldn't a solo just add their imaginary friend to the booking, who'd then fail to make their connection and miss the sailing time?

It feels more like a pricing error.

I had just such an experience, only with a real friend, not an imaginary one. We discovered that the terms and conditions covered this, to the cruise line’s advantage. Not only did they not refund the one passenger, they changed the remaining person’s fare to the higher single rate. Trip cancellation insurance would cover the cancellation, but not the increased fare. The solution was to cancel both and get full reimbursement. 

[GeezerCouple]

3 minutes ago, CPT Trips said:

I had just such an experience, only with a real friend, not an imaginary one. We discovered that the terms and conditions covered this, to the cruise line’s advantage. Not only did they not refund the one passenger, they changed the remaining person’s fare to the higher single rate. Trip cancellation insurance would cover the cancellation, but not the increased fare. The solution was to cancel both and get full reimbursement. 

 

Where I made a suggestion like this (see post #7 in this thread) it was because apparently there was ONLY availability for "two", and a "single" could *not* even book a cabin, even for full (200%) price.

So the only refund that might have been at issue were some port charges or fees, but that wasn't the point, and wasn't necessary.

 

The passenger was willing to pay full/double fare, but was unable to book as a solo.

Booking "with a friend" would let them book!

 

GC

[CPT Trips]

@GeezerCouple  Your approach may get the booking. What about boarding? I don’t have any experience or knowledge with a travel companion, real or imagined, just ghosting the boarding process. But I do think that the cruise lines have this covered, to their advantage. 

[GeezerCouple]

4 minutes ago, CPT Trips said:

@GeezerCouple  Your approach may get the booking. What about boarding? I don’t have any experience or knowledge with a travel companion, real or imagined, just ghosting the boarding process. But I do think that the cruise lines have this covered, to their advantage. 

 

You are suggesting that DH and I booked a cruise to share a cabin, and one of us couldn't go, then when the other of us showed up, NOT expecting/requesting any type of refund, the ship would not allow that one (him or me) to board, but would leave us standing on the dock (okay, in the terminal?) as the ship sails away?  With custody of all of our money, prepaid weeks/months ago?

Really?

 

GC

[Joebucks]

In most cases, there is no "surcharge". The price of the room is for 2 people. You will not get a discount for having 1. If a line actually charges more for 1 than 2, then it's a surcharge. 

 

I know everyone thinks they know better than the cruise line. If this truly was this big cash cow, they would change their policies. Most lines are not as desperate for cruisers as you think.

[cruisemom42]

47 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

In most cases, there is no "surcharge". The price of the room is for 2 people. You will not get a discount for having 1. If a line actually charges more for 1 than 2, then it's a surcharge.

 

I understand the 200% room supplement. But when a line wants to ALSO charge me for 2 sets of gratuities, two beverage packages, two internet connections (while only allowing me one) -- then that is a surcharge. And yes, Celebrity does it.

 

[CPT Trips]

3 hours ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

You are suggesting that DH and I booked a cruise to share a cabin, and one of us couldn't go, then when the other of us showed up, NOT expecting/requesting any type of refund, the ship would not allow that one (him or me) to board, but would leave us standing on the dock (okay, in the terminal?) as the ship sails away?  With custody of all of our money, prepaid weeks/months ago?

Really?

 

GC

Yes. Really. 
When we had the cancellation experience (granted we canceled several days before the cruise) we were told that if one wanted to cruise the single supplement would apply. That was in the T&C

[ldubs]

On 2/5/2023 at 8:06 AM, GeezerCouple said:

 

You are suggesting that DH and I booked a cruise to share a cabin, and one of us couldn't go, then when the other of us showed up, NOT expecting/requesting any type of refund, the ship would not allow that one (him or me) to board, but would leave us standing on the dock (okay, in the terminal?) as the ship sails away?  With custody of all of our money, prepaid weeks/months ago?

Really?

 

GC

 

On 2/5/2023 at 11:34 AM, CPT Trips said:

Yes. Really. 
When we had the cancellation experience (granted we canceled several days before the cruise) we were told that if one wanted to cruise the single supplement would apply. That was in the T&C

 

I think you guys are saying the same thing.  The single supplement or full double occy fare (however you say it) would apply if one of two passengers showed up.  The single would not be denied boarding.  

[GeezerCouple]

2 hours ago, ldubs said:

I think you guys are saying the same thing.  The single supplement or full double occy fare (however you say it) would apply if one of two passengers showed up.  The single would not be denied boarding.  

 

Yes, I think so, but "not quite".

 

My scenario is NOT to try to avoid that surcharge, of a single paying double.

It was specifically addressing the problem mentioned above when someone was *unable* to book as a single, even if willing to pay double.

 

CPT trips keeps coming back to the "supplement" cost.  That was NOT the problem in this situation.  The poster above "wanted" to pay the supplement!  But they could not book as a single, not even when paying for two.

CPT trips was implying that the "boarding" would be denied if only one person showed up:

 

On 2/5/2023 at 10:59 AM, CPT Trips said:

@GeezerCouple  Your approach may get the booking. What about boarding? I don’t have any experience or knowledge with a travel companion, real or imagined, just ghosting the boarding process. But I do think that the cruise lines have this covered, to their advantage. 

[emphasis added]

 

That is very unlikely, as there is no requirement that persons sharing a cabin must show up and board together.  IF one shows up first, they can board.  And "if" the second doesn't make it in time, I cannot imagine some crew member is going to search the ship to find that "single", perhaps haul them out of the pool, wait for them to change, get their luggage all packed up, and help them disembark before the ship can sail...!?

As I wrote previously, "Really?"

 

I've seen this suggestion quite a few times over the years, but not at the point of booking.  Usually it's when one of two already booked passengers can't make it.  The suggestion is NOT to cancel, but to be a no-show at boarding.  That's what the above would end up being.

 

GC

[ldubs]

54 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

Yes, I think so, but "not quite".

 

My scenario is NOT to try to avoid that surcharge, of a single paying double.

It was specifically addressing the problem mentioned above when someone was *unable* to book as a single, even if willing to pay double.

 

 

I completely understood the approach and advice your were giving.  And, I can confirm with real life experience that what you say actually happens.  We were on a cruise last year with some friends where that actually happened.   

[Cruisercl]

On 2/4/2023 at 8:36 PM, CPT Trips said:

Equal does not necessarily mean fair. Several people go out to dinner together. One orders the surf and turf for $100. Another the pasta at $50 and the final person the??? at $75. Is splitting the bill equally fair to the pasta person? 🤷🏻‍♂️

Agree, you made my point. ☺

[CPT Trips]

8 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

I completely understood the approach and advice your were giving.  And, I can confirm with real life experience that what you say actually happens.  We were on a cruise last year with some friends where that actually happened.   

Whoa, raided by the “Revenuers” on a cruise . . . 

[ilikeanswers]

What I get confused about are all inclusive cruises charging single supplements. If single supplement is suppose to compensate for on board spending then what is the compensation for all inclusives?

 

Though I have often wondered if I am compensating for on board spending shouldn't I be getting something extra for it? Like if I am paying for two meals shouldn't I actually get two meals? It kind of feels like they are asking me to pay potential earnings without them having to work for it. 

[ldubs]

3 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

What I get confused about are all inclusive cruises charging single supplements. If single supplement is suppose to compensate for on board spending then what is the compensation for all inclusives?

 

Though I have often wondered if I am compensating for on board spending shouldn't I be getting something extra for it? Like if I am paying for two meals shouldn't I actually get two meals? It kind of feels like they are asking me to pay potential earnings without them having to work for it. 

 

That is a very good point.  You should be offered double everything!  

[Joebucks]

8 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

What I get confused about are all inclusive cruises charging single supplements. If single supplement is suppose to compensate for on board spending then what is the compensation for all inclusives?

 

Though I have often wondered if I am compensating for on board spending shouldn't I be getting something extra for it? Like if I am paying for two meals shouldn't I actually get two meals? It kind of feels like they are asking me to pay potential earnings without them having to work for it. 

 

Would you also agree to being charged double for your drinks, specialty dining, and excursions? The fare alone doesn't drive the revenue that they want. They are hoping people purchase extras too. Something tells me a solo cruiser also isn't going to spend as much.

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, Joebucks said:

 

Would you also agree to being charged double for your drinks, specialty dining, and excursions? The fare alone doesn't drive the revenue that they want. They are hoping people purchase extras too. Something tells me a solo cruiser also isn't going to spend as much.

 

That is sort of my question. If single supplement is to compensate loss of earnings on those items then isn't it like they are asking me to pay them their potential profits without them needing to provide those services or products? 

Edited February 9, 2023 by ilikeanswers

[cruisemom42]

5 hours ago, Joebucks said:

Something tells me a solo cruiser also isn't going to spend as much.

 

This is the crux of the pricing issue.  I'm sure the cruise lines have the ability to crunch numbers and I believe (or at least hope) they are basing the single supplements on those calculations. 

 

Of course these calculations involve a certain amount of generalization. And of course I have read many posts over the years from individual solo travelers who do spend quite liberally onboard. As an example, I believe that more solos than couples likely opt to take shore excursions through the ship due to the additional safety/security of doing so. I also know of quite a few solo travelers who spend large amounts of time in the casino. Or in the spa. Likewise, I also know of couples or families who brag of not having spent an extra penny onboard, leaving the ship with a zero balance.

 

That said, the powers that be cannot adjust their algorithm for every individual. So, just like fit seniors get penalized by blanket age cut-offs on some shore excursions, solos have to put up with the solo supplement.  

Edited February 9, 2023 by cruisemom42

[Toofarfromthesea]

8 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

Would you also agree to being charged double for your drinks, specialty dining, and excursions? The fare alone doesn't drive the revenue that they want. They are hoping people purchase extras too. Something tells me a solo cruiser also isn't going to spend as much.

 

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd guess that average on-board spending exceeds the marginal cost of passenger food cost.

[Toofarfromthesea]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

This is the crux of the pricing issue.  I'm sure the cruise lines have the ability to crunch numbers and I believe (or at least hope) they are basing the single supplements on those calculations. 

 

Of course these calculations involve a certain amount of generalization. And of course I have read many posts over the years from individual solo travelers who do spend quite liberally onboard. As an example, I believe that more solos than couples likely opt to take shore excursions through the ship due to the additional safety/security of doing so. I also know of quite a few solo travelers who spend large amounts of time in the casino. Or in the spa. Likewise, I also know of couples or families who brag of not having spent an extra penny onboard, leaving the ship with a zero balance.

 

That said, the powers that be cannot adjust their algorithm for every individual. So, just like fit seniors get penalized by blanket age cut-offs on some shore excursions, solos have to put up with the solo supplement.  

 

All of these factors are completely subsumed by the cruiseline losing the fare they would have collected for the second person in the cabin.  Which is 95% of the reason for the single supplement.

[cruisemom42]

36 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

All of these factors are completely subsumed by the cruiseline losing the fare they would have collected for the second person in the cabin.  Which is 95% of the reason for the single supplement.

 

And what about all the instances where there is a large discount off the second passenger's fare? Or when the third/fourth passenger "sail free"?

[navybankerteacher]

6 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd guess that average on-board spending exceeds the marginal cost of passenger food cost.

You are making a very safe bet.

[navybankerteacher]

6 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

And what about all the instances where there is a large discount off the second passenger's fare? Or when the third/fourth passenger "sail free"?

Those second and third passengers spend money on board.  You may not believe it, but the cruise lines' bean counters, who are better-informed, full-time money guys seem to, --- and, even though I do not like it, I have to accept the likely fact that the cruise lines know what they are doing (maximizing earnings), and are more interested in that than in being "fair" to single cruisers.

 

Like it or not:   you are playing in their back yard, so you play by their rules.