Price Comparisons between HAL and Seabourn

[Hlitner]

We have long argued, that folks who book higher priced cabins/suites on mass market lines like HAL, may be missing out on a chance to cruise on a real luxury small ship line such as Seabourn.  So. just for fun, I did a quick comparison of HAL's 35 day Voyage of the Vikings Cruise against a current (leaves in less than 3 weeks) Seabourn cruise.  The Seabourn cruise is a 32 day from Lisbon to Montreal, does a lot of Scotland, Iceland, Greenland and Canada and is actually a really interesting itinerary.  A last minute booking on this Seabourn cruise cost about $30,000.  That price gets you a normal suite and is all-inclusive of everything (tips, drinks, alternative dining, internet) except shore excursions.  It is on a 450 passenger all-suite all-inclusive Seabourn vessel with space ratios in excess of 70 tons per person.

 

Since this year's VOV is sold out I cannot see pricing, so have used the July 2024 Zuiderdam 35 day VOV cruise.  The lowest price suite is a Signature (SZ) and  would cost about $35,000 (this is approximate and from a discount agency).  That price does NOT include things like drinks, Internet, and tips but would get you over $1000 in OBC if booked through a decent cruise agency (you would not get the OBC through HAL).  So, take that $35,000 and add the cost of internet and the drink package and you are looking at more than $38,000 as compared to the Seabourn price mentioned above.  So yes, folks, with this comparison HAL would cost you a lot more money than an all-inclusive luxury line.  Granted this is far from a perfect comparison, but this post is simply to point out that those who book HAL suites (even the lowest cost suites) can find better deals on a true small ship luxury line.  \

 

Many cruisers are "loyalists" and have a mindset that locks them into a single cruise line (many HAL fans fall into that group).  But they might want to consider that there might be greener grass elsewhere for less money.  And I had mentioned that the Seabourn Ship (in this case the Quest has a space ratio of just over 70 tons per person while the Zuiderdam's space ratio is in the 41-42 ton range.    Bottom line is that shopping around, among many lines, can pay off in many ways.

 

Hank

[VMax1700]

Interesting, but you are comparing pricing for a last minute cruise in 3 weeks time against a cruise that embarks in 12 months time.  How much would last minute flight and hotel prices influence the overall pricing?

[whogo]

The comparison is more striking on my favorite website. Zuiderdam balcony or suite is listed at about $28,000, Quest at about $13,000. (I think that neither price includes some port fees or something.)

 

There are plenty of nits to pick in your comparison of a round trip from a US port to a transatlantic, and we will probably hear them, e.g. there is a cheaper 35 night Iceland/Greenland back to back on Nieuw Statendam on July 20, 2024 round trip Amsterdam for $5,500 to $10,000.

 

I am in your camp on this one, Hank. I think it is silly to book a Neptune suite without considering a luxury line.

[Heartgrove]

Having sailed in a Neptune Suite twice in the past but then after sailing on MSC in Yacht Club, I will make do with a VC/VD to sail additional times in YC.

[PACD_JG]

To add merit to your position, if I had a nickel for every time I read that given an option, folks would always prefer the smaller ship...but blasphemy if it's with a different cruise line!

[Hlitner]

Please keep in mind I was just tossing out an example to stimulate thinking.  But since somebody mentioned last minute air and hotels I will deal with this based on the real world current situation (we did book with SB).  Last minute air to Lisbon, Portugal, from NYC airports (Newark or JFK) is actually about the same price (or even cheaper) than many domestic air prices.  Just looking now, 1 way from Newark to Lisbon on TAP is less than $500.  A poster asked about last minute hotels, and the reality is that last minute hotel deals are generally LESS EXPENSIVE than booking far in advance.  As one who has often done last minute cruises (even with HAL) it is a lot of fun (for those that can handle the last minute scheduling) and can be some of the best bargains in the cruise world.  

 

That being said, the purpose of my post is simply to show that small ship luxury cruising can be a bargain when compared to booking mass market lines in suites (even the smallest suites).  Many are unaware which is why I started the topic.  It was probably about 20 years ago, when I was taking an exercise walk and listening to a local talk radio show about travel.  The hostess, who is a big time cruiser, was talking about this topic..having just taken her first luxury cruise.  She argues that the luxury cruise was actually about the same price as comparable mass market cruises when you consider apples to apples.  That talk radio show got me looking at luxury options and led to our first luxury cruise (which was on the old Crystal Harmony).

 

It is also why we have never bothered to upgrade to a Neptune Suite.  Those suites never made any sense (to me) because we knew it was possible to cruise on lines like Seabourn, Windstar, Silverseas, etc. for about the same or less total cost.  Although it is not the case on every cruise, the deals are out there for those who take some time to look at the various options.  Booking a Neptune gets me a larger suite (we spend very little waking time in our cabin) but outside the suite it is still a mass market ship with the same food, entertainment, crowding, etc.  Big suites on HAL get you a nice suite...but not much else (we are not impressed with the Neptune Lounges).  Big Suites on a line like Celebrity does get you a lot, but those suites will often cost MORE than a small ship luxury line.  For those of us who prefer small ships it is a no-brainer.  For folks that prefer larger ships it is a different story.

 

But like PACD_JG says, those here who sing the praises of small ships and than book a Pinnacle Class ship...make me laugh.  Trust me that a 450 passenger Seabourn ship is a much different experience than a 2000+ HAL vessel.  And many previous HAL fans have moved on to lines like Oceania, Viking, and even Seabourn because of their love of smaller ships.

 

I think that mass market suite prices have become "upside down" in comparison to many luxury line cruises.  It is why 3 of our next 4 booked cruises are on Seabourn, Explora Journeys (900 passenger) and Oceania (1200 passenger).  Like many long time HAL cruisers we prefer the smaller ships...and we do walk the walk!  While HAL is still an OK value in the inside, outside and some verandah cabins, we do not think that is the case for the suites.  And with HAL abandoning the LCS entertainment, production shows, having add-ons in the MDR and alternative restaurants, we are no longer impressed with the line.

 

Hank

[57redbird]

Thanks for opening my eyes....I'll take a look.

[YourWorldWithBill]

3 hours ago, Hlitner said:

We have long argued, that folks who book higher priced cabins/suites on mass market lines like HAL, may be missing out on a chance to cruise on a real luxury small ship line such as Seabourn. 

Hank

We've done a Neptune Suite a couple of times (after Viking) mainly because of access to the concierge, but are moving to Oceania, because we consider it an upgrade at a similar price. Some have done comparisons that are similar to yours, with Silverseas. The excursions they include make that line appealing.

How does Seabourn handle airfare bookings?

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

It's not apple's to apple's

  #1 VOV is the most expensive cruise Holland America has cost per day.   #2.     It is always sold out.

[Guest ldtr]

One can always find outliers and unique pricing situations. However how many are going to wait until last minute on the off chance that there is a dramatic savings, be willing to book a different itinerary, even if it covers some of the same ports, then deal with relatively last minute flight bookings, especially if they are looking at business class.

 

Finding an outlier is one thing having time on a travel schedule for such a last minute booking is often another.

 

Most willing to spend that much also tend to like in their travel plans.

Edited July 6, 2023 by ldtr

[Florida_gal_50]

Would love to see a comparison of two cruises a year out.  That would make more sense.  I'm not afraid to book another cruise line and have in the past.  What a red herring.

[*Miss G*]

Not being inclined to poke at all the holes in your analysis, I took a look at other threads you’ve started to see if you were targeting any of the other lines with this peculiar “Come to the Altar” tent-revival campaign.  Looks like it’s just HAL.  

 

I did take a look at the Seabourn itinerary and it does look nice.  I guess if I were inclined to pay $30,000 for something which isn’t a world cruise it might interest me.  I’m pretty happy with my own analyses and decisions.  Presumably, others will, can, and do, as well, so I guess I’m just puzzled as to why you think they can’t.  Oh well. 

[Guest ldtr]

30 minutes ago, *Miss G* said:

Not being inclined to poke at all the holes in your analysis, I took a look at other threads you’ve started to see if you were targeting any of the other lines with this peculiar “Come to the Altar” tent-revival campaign.  Looks like it’s just HAL.  

 

I did take a look at the Seabourn itinerary and it does look nice.  I guess if I were inclined to pay $30,000 for something which isn’t a world cruise it might interest me.  I’m pretty happy with my own analyses and decisions.  Presumably, others will, can, and do, as well, so I guess I’m just puzzled as to why you think they can’t.  Oh well. 

Interesting that mention the revival tent. Cruising is like religion in that when some convert to another line  they feel the need to covert those they left behind.

[PACD_JG]

As if on cue, Sheri from CruiseTipsTV just posted a video of her Seabourn Odyssey Alaska cruise.  Assuming the price was equal, only the zealot (since we're speaking of religion) would think a Neptune Suite on the Koningsdam would be a better experience than the lowest Verandah (which is still a suite) on the Odyssey.

 

 

[Hlitner]

4 hours ago, YourWorldWithBill said:

We've done a Neptune Suite a couple of times (after Viking) mainly because of access to the concierge, but are moving to Oceania, because we consider it an upgrade at a similar price. Some have done comparisons that are similar to yours, with Silverseas. The excursions they include make that line appealing.

How does Seabourn handle airfare bookings?

Seabourn's air is identical to HAL's and, in fact, they even use a similar on line booking engine to HAL's and also Princess (all 3 lines use the same third party air booking company).  When we once talked to one of the air specialists she told me that each cruise line has some minor differences in the contractual deals with the various airlines, but it is mostly similar in terms of pricing and terms.

 

I am not singing the praises of Seabourn (although it is our current favorite line) as, just like HAL, they also have their problems.  But we were so disappointed in our recent 42 day Westy cruise that we did start to look around at options.  DW loved our HAL VOV cruise (several years ago) so, when I spotted the Seabourn cruise (3 days ago) it set off internal alarms.  I immediately looked at the HAL VOV cruise (leaving this month) to do a comparison.  But, even if there had been space on the VOV, both DW and I were blown-away by the Seabourn Quest itinerary and would have been reluctant to book any HAL cruise.  When I think of Seabourn, I think about sitting in their Observation Bar (similar to what the Crows Nest was...before being ruined by HAL design changes) and sipping French Champagne along with a double portion of decent caviar (no charge for either).  

 

When it comes to booking suites on mass market lines (our recent Westy cruise was in a Signature Suite) we look at the cost and amenities.  I believe that HAL has the worst suite package in the industry (somebody can correct me if wrong) when compared to other mass market lines such as Celebrity Cunard, RCI, MSC, etc.  On the other hand, for folks willing to book an inside cabin (not us) HAL is still a pretty decent value.  And consider that most of the suite amenities can be purchased by a cruiser in the cheapest inside cabin...for a relatively low price (i.e. Club Orange).   The issue of comparing the so-called "Premium Lines" such as Viking, "O" and Azamara is a different question that others might want to discuss.

 

Hank

 

 

[kazu]

What about the lowly people that don’t book Neptune Suites?

just plain verandahs or less - I took a look a while ago and as a solo, it was painful.

Seabourn was on my radar and the prices I found were out of sight.  I don’t traditionally do last minute bookings.

[Florida_gal_50]

2 hours ago, PACD_JG said:

As if on cue, Sheri from CruiseTipsTV just posted a video of her Seabourn Odyssey Alaska cruise.  Assuming the price was equal, only the zealot (since we're speaking of religion) would think a Neptune Suite on the Koningsdam would be a better experience than the lowest Verandah (which is still a suite) on the Odyssey.

 

 

I listen to podcasts almost all day long at work including hers.  This one was so boring I couldn’t get through it.  I realize this is the YouTube version.

[oaktreerb]

We cruised Seabourn Odyssey in the Caribbean pre-Covid. I wasn’t impressed.  The dining room service was slow for food, fast for filling your wine glass.  I also didn’t care for the menu choices.  The standard veranda stateroom was very large but the service was not up to HAL standards.  The entertainment was good.   Not the upscale experience i had expected.

 

We sailed Azamara in New Zealand before the change of ownership.  Loved it.  Veranda rooms were small but service was good.  Entertainment was good.  Food service and choices were good.  As a HAL cruiser I felt Azamara was a good fit for me.  Seabourn was not.

 

Azamara had a little coffee bar area with snacks that was wonderful, all included in the amenities offered by Azamara.  HAL now has the Grand Dutch Cafe which is similar but much more crowded.

[CafeBruno]

I'm currently booked on the Eurodam for 21 days in January in a VB balcony, with the Have It All package. Just for fun, I looked up what 21 days on a Seabourn ship with a similar itinerary would cost, using a popular discount To Go booking site. After factoring in the extras and OBC included in the HIA package compared to the internet and drinks included in the Seaborne fare, it turned out the Seaborne fare was double the HAL fare. I know it's not an apples to apples comparison, but for us and maybe others like us who typically stay in one of the more expensive balconies, (VB in this case), I can't justify paying double for a Seabourn suite. But for those who only book Neptune suites, then yes, do your own comparison before you book HAL. 

[leerathje]

No worries here!  We can't afford anything more than a verandah, and since we both still have to work for a living, and DH does not get paid holidays, we can't cruise on anything over 14 days locally.  (or 10 days overseas)  Even that length of time is still a stretch......

 

L.

 

[YourWorldWithBill]

2 hours ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

I listen to podcasts almost all day long at work including hers.  This one was so boring I couldn’t get through it.  I realize this is the YouTube version.

When she started off by saying her cruise was "hosted by Seabourn" that was enough for me. Nothing against Seabourn--still considering it--but I'd rather watch more objective videos. She said they didn't pay her, and that's a bit of a misleading statement if the cruise was free. Hey, I have a YouTube channel, and I'd accept a free cruise, too! I'm not criticizing, just saying...

[Florida_gal_50]

2 minutes ago, YourWorldWithBill said:

When she started off by saying her cruise was "hosted by Seabourn" that was enough for me. Nothing against Seabourn--still considering it--but I'd rather watch more objective videos. She said they didn't pay her, and that's a bit of a misleading statement if the cruise was free. Hey, I have a YouTube channel, and I'd accept a free cruise, too! I'm not criticizing, just saying...

That’s right!  I completely forgot about that.  We have a local person on Facebook that I follow but I don’t know why.  She loves celebrity and a few high end cruise lines.  Nothing about any other line.  Positive she’s getting free trips otherwise why just write about them? She owns a travel agency.  It would be hard to criticize.

[Hlitner]

6 hours ago, *Miss G* said:

Not being inclined to poke at all the holes in your analysis, I took a look at other threads you’ve started to see if you were targeting any of the other lines with this peculiar “Come to the Altar” tent-revival campaign.  Looks like it’s just HAL.  

 

I did take a look at the Seabourn itinerary and it does look nice.  I guess if I were inclined to pay $30,000 for something which isn’t a world cruise it might interest me.  I’m pretty happy with my own analyses and decisions.  Presumably, others will, can, and do, as well, so I guess I’m just puzzled as to why you think they can’t.  Oh well. 

There is a reason.  I prefer not to base analysis on history and our most recent cruise was on HAL.  If you went back a few years you would have also found that I had a lot of issues with Celebrity (an old favorite) and stopped booking that line after Lisa Lutoff-Perlo became their CEO and started what I termed her "death by a thousand cut-backs!"  On the other hand, like another poster in this thread we have sang the praises of MSC's Yacht Club (which I have called the best value in all of cruising).  As to Seabourn, we will soon go over 100 days on that line (we have more than 500 on HAL) so have a good basis to make a comparison.  

 

I do not want to get back into criticizing HAL (and there is much to criticize) as I started this thread to simply draw some comparisons between HAL suites and small luxury lines (which are generally all suites).  I do think that HAL does some things that are simply low class!  An "honor bar" in the Neptune Lounges, which is reserved for those in the most expensive suites, is just small time cheap.  At the very least, the drinks should be complementary, and ideally there should be a bar tender making free drinks for most of the day. 

 

One other poster mentioned how much they like MSCs Yacht Club  Consider that in MSC's Yacht Club, their dedicated expansive lounge is open about 18 hours a day, has rotating small buffets all day long, a well staffed bar (with just about everything provided at no extra cost, and plenty of additional staff (including waiters and butlers).  And those Yacht Club Suites are generally sold for less than $400 per passenger day which includes 2 dedicated private dining venues, a huge lounge (with everything included), lots of butlers, unlimited Internet, top shelf booze (ship wide), reserved seating for the production shows, etc. etc.  My goodness, when you are in the Yacht Club your YC Card even gets you priority elevator service!

 

As to picking and choosing, we have cruised on Seabourn (in regular suites) for prices ranging from $330 per person day (on an Alaskan cruise) to about $600 per person day (Greek Islands).  Those prices include a regular suite and just about everything else (drinks, internet, upscale dining, caviar, etc, etc.  So NO, I am not just cherry picking from a few examples.  And I chose the HAL VOV since I was comparing it to a Seabourn cruise that also is somewhat of a VOV cruise and includes Iceland, Greenland, parts of Canada, just like the VOV.

 

As to the $30,000 you cite...that would not even get you a Signature Suite on the VOV cruise...which is far from a world cruise!

 

Hank

[gkbiiii]

There is a Holland cruise around the whole of Africa, RT from Florida.  The itinerary is amazing, but I wonder if QM2 in Queen's/Princess Grille would be better?  Celebrity is on a serious slide to the bottom (after new CEO) so this thread is of interest to me.  There are lines like Regent, where shore excursions are included. 

[Mary229]

I think the same of this thread as I do of @mcrcruiser’s thread about shore excursions.   Once budget and itinerary are established it is highly personal which level of  services one is willing to pay for.  None of us got to this forum of active travelers by not knowing how to put pen to paper and adding a few numbers, it is not rocket science.  

I assume we all have reasons for our choice of HAL, for me the long itineraries, my DH for the lack of having to fly great distances, for my sister the very quiet vibe.  

 

My first major cruise with HAL was VOV and that resulted from an analysis of cost, comfort and ease of traveling to Greenland independently or by ship.  Even though there were failures on that cruise related to ship condition I probably still came away better off than if I had done independent travel.  I very publicly left HAL for Oceania but quickly came back.  At least Oceania was only 50% more costly than HAL.  and the inclusions were not interesting.

 

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Mary229