My thoughts on all the "cuts"

[TeeRick]

1 hour ago, keesar said:

 

There are many cruisers who do not consider other lines and continue to defend the Celebrity product.  We have those cruisers who continue to book the high end rooms exclusively.  I imagine these are high margin profits for the line.  One issue is that these cruisers are reluctant to try other lines because they have  perceived or real 'status' on Celebrity.  

 

This Summer, we did a family vacation  by renting a home on an island.  It was very relaxing and the cost-even including dining out- was significantly less than going on a cruise.  We had "free laundry" 😀 available to us and did not have to hear the marketing announcements by a captain. We eat real lobster and fresh seafood.    Glad we made that choice.

The last couple of years we have shifted from cruising in the winter to renting beach houses.  A months rent is less than a Celebrity cruise in a suite for a week.  Even with dining out.

[ebtrip]

13 hours ago, hubofhockey said:

I noticed for our Japan cruise next May that the open cabins are the AQs. We book because on M class, there really aren’t a lot of specialty venues. Hate the fact that you have to buy all of the extras with it. 

I booked Japan for next year, but am sailing on Azamara. Because we previously sailed on them when owned by RCCL, I get my Elite Plus perks. Sailing on the Equinox in 2 weeks in Aqua, I’ll be the judge if we will return. Haven’t sailed on X since 2020, cruised 4 times on Viking Ocean since then. No nickel or diming. Very different vibe on a smaller ship which we do enjoy. 

[Spif Barwunkel]

In "defense" of Celebrity, unfettered "loyalty" to Celebrity, two of the most ridiculous and over-worked forms of poppycock on the Celebrity forum. How ludicrous one sounds when advocating for a psychological diagnosis of cruising behavior while insinuating that some folks cannot possibly enjoy the X brand in its current form. I can. You can't. Anyone have a problem with that? I don't.

 

I don't defend Celebrity in any of its decisions, good or bad, right or wrong. Why, because I am not smart enough to know the entire reasoning behind those decisions. We are booked on five cruises between now and August of 2024. Two are Celebrity, the remaining three on three different cruise lines. So much for unfettered loyalty. I will not base my future cruise bookings on what you are happy or unhappy with. I can only hope that future X sailings continue to satisfy our expectations, even with the occasional miss-step. 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Spif Barwunkel

[NutsAboutGolf]

1 hour ago, terrydtx said:

The cruising industry has been for years following the airline models for providing less for more.

 

Not exactly apples to apples; back then you essentially only had 1st class.  Today you have coach which is far cheaper than the airfare 50 years ago and if you got the money for Emirates, can book a suite which includes a shower

 

[terrydtx]

14 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

Not exactly apples to apples; back then you essentially only had 1st class.  Today you have coach which is far cheaper than the airfare 50 years ago and if you got the money for Emirates, can book a suite which includes a shower

 

My first class flight from DFW to FLL on American in June looked like the picture above, we got one drink in a plastic cup with a biscotti cookie for our premium snack.

[hubofhockey]

1 hour ago, Guera53 said:

I second this. No one wants to go on a cruise and eat school lunch food in the MDR. Smaller portions and not as many choices is fine. Skimping quality though? And are you all telling me the common class doesn’t get included in afternoon tea? Princess includes all classes. Just that I’m using that word…classes…like a titanic caste system…is disturbing to me. And it’s the way I’m processing all this. 

At one time, Princess was my cruise line of choice.  They failed to reinvest and refurbish older ships and they became worn down. Their new class of ships had smaller balconies and they downgraded Sabatini’s (specialty restaurant).  Now, they’re charging for their once free pizza place on the Royal Class.  I love the M class on Celebrity for every reason I moved on from Princess. I can get good everyday meals in Blu and I understand I have to pay for it.  If I’m not booking Celebrity, it’s because we’ll book more premium lines. 

[bobfoo]

On 8/26/2023 at 7:55 PM, KKB said:

I look at the cuts noted in Retreat, AQ, etc.

Many of the cuts are little things. (not all)

Did they decide that those little things aren't going to significantly affect cruisers satisfaction?

Did they do surveys to determine which things have the biggest impact on cruisers satisfaction?
I don't know.

While little things are nice (ie daily chocolates in AQ), in NO way do they make or break a cruise for me & I'm not going to miss them.

Retreat butler changes--meh, didn't really use ours when we were in Retreat anyway. (YMMV)

Sky Suites no free booze in room? That's odd to me as there are grab & go beers/seltzers in lounge fridges, and you can get a free drink at any bar..it seems to be a time issue stocking more than a $ issue.

 

ALL lines are cutting costs.

Celebrity still has the best overall product of mainstream lines, imo.

 

The problem is whilst they are all small little things, these do add up.

 

Think about reading a document or a web page. You notice a spelling error, no big deal. But then you find another, and another, and another.

 

In isolation these are all fine, but if there are loads you think 'come on now, you've clearly not read this through!'.

 

So yes, in isolation no chocolate, boo hoo, no big deal, but on top of a heap of other changes you start to question why you're paying hundreds of dollars more. What value are you actually getting.

 

And really those types of things exist in the first place because they're very cheap ways for the company to add perceived value.

[goofysmom99]

On 8/26/2023 at 2:55 PM, KKB said:

I look at the cuts noted in Retreat, AQ, etc.

Many of the cuts are little things. (not all)

Did they decide that those little things aren't going to significantly affect cruisers satisfaction?

Did they do surveys to determine which things have the biggest impact on cruisers satisfaction?
I don't know.

While little things are nice (ie daily chocolates in AQ), in NO way do they make or break a cruise for me & I'm not going to miss them.

Retreat butler changes--meh, didn't really use ours when we were in Retreat anyway. (YMMV)

Sky Suites no free booze in room? That's odd to me as there are grab & go beers/seltzers in lounge fridges, and you can get a free drink at any bar..it seems to be a time issue stocking more than a $ issue.

 

ALL lines are cutting costs.

Celebrity still has the best overall product of mainstream lines, imo.

 

Are the accumulating "little things" being cut still having little to no impact?  One less thing to worry about if you're in a suite is how to best spend the suite OBC because you won't get any.  Bummer....that would have taken care of the no-longer-included gratuities.   

[NMTraveller]

5 hours ago, bobfoo said:

The problem is whilst they are all small little things, these do add up.

 

Think about reading a document or a web page. You notice a spelling error, no big deal. But then you find another, and another, and another.

 

In isolation these are all fine, but if there are loads you think 'come on now, you've clearly not read this through!'.

 

So yes, in isolation no chocolate, boo hoo, no big deal, but on top of a heap of other changes you start to question why you're paying hundreds of dollars more. What value are you actually getting.

 

And really those types of things exist in the first place because they're very cheap ways for the company to add perceived value.

Well I think with todays cuts you are looking into the hundreds if not more.  The missing OBC and missing gratuity.  We will have to wait and see what the group rates, if they still exist look like.

[leyland1989]

On 8/27/2023 at 8:45 AM, terrydtx said:

The cruising industry has been for years following the airline models for providing less for more.

Off topics but this is a common misconception. 
Commercial Jets are MUCH more luxurious than 50 years ago and better than ever. 
I will take commercial flight today over "The Golden age of air traveling" any time. 

A round-trip transatlantic ticket in the 1960 cost about $600, about $5000-6000 today adjusted to inflation, onboard the Boeing 707 with seat comparable to today's Premium Economy. 

For the same price, you can easily get a business class (or even first class) seat with lie-flat bed, in flight entertainment.  

People are comparing apples to orange when talking about how poorly treated passengers are these days when airfare was 1/10 of what it used to be. A bulk bed in the steerage 50 years ago would cost more than an economy class ticket today, I would still take the economy class seat. 

[NutsAboutGolf]

Thanks Celebrity, you're now giving us all a new kind of anxiety which is: "Future Deterioration Anxiety" 

[ChucktownSteve]

6 hours ago, leyland1989 said:

Off topics but this is a common misconception. 
Commercial Jets are MUCH more luxurious than 50 years ago and better than ever. 
I will take commercial flight today over "The Golden age of air traveling" any time. 

A round-trip transatlantic ticket in the 1960 cost about $600, about $5000-6000 today adjusted to inflation, onboard the Boeing 707 with seat comparable to today's Premium Economy. 

For the same price, you can easily get a business class (or even first class) seat with lie-flat bed, in flight entertainment.  

People are comparing apples to orange when talking about how poorly treated passengers are these days when airfare was 1/10 of what it used to be. A bulk bed in the steerage 50 years ago would cost more than an economy class ticket today, I would still take the economy class seat. 

One of the factors which brings down seat or cabin cost is total occupancy availability.  So comparing cheaper now is apples to oranges also.  In the 1960's, a DC9 carried about 65 passengers. A couple hundred people on a Boeing 737 flight certainly brings the efficiency costs down. 

 

Cruise ships?  Well 2,000 to 6,000 passengers on one ship sure does affect costs compared to only several hundred.

[hubofhockey]

1 hour ago, ChucktownSteve said:

One of the factors which brings down seat or cabin cost is total occupancy availability.  So comparing cheaper now is apples to oranges also.  In the 1960's, a DC9 carried about 65 passengers. A couple hundred people on a Boeing 737 flight certainly brings the efficiency costs down. 

 

Cruise ships?  Well 2,000 to 6,000 passengers on one ship sure does affect costs compared to only several hundred.

Well, isn’t that the reason mass market cruise lines don’t build small ships anymore?  The only way to make them work is by charging more per passenger.  You pay extra for that experience.  Some pay much more for high level suites on Celebrity and some pay more for Oceania or much more for Regent.  It’s a bunch of trade offs.  We’ll know things are different when Celebrity builds more M class ships after the current ones reach the ends of their useful lives.  That’s about 10 years away.

[ChucktownSteve]

2 minutes ago, hubofhockey said:

You pay extra for that experience.  Some pay much more for high level suites on Celebrity and some pay more for Oceania or much more for Regent. 

I keep seeing that people say Regent is much more expensive.  I actually didn't experience that.  During 2021 I booked three Regent cruises that were actually over $100pp/pn than a similar size suite on Celebrity but had much more amenities included.

I was just looking at a 2026 Regent cruise which was a little less than $100pp/pn for a Celebrity suite one year earlier in the same region.  But again Regent included all the premium extras. 

 

What I found the main difference is pricing Regent without the included air.  A large portion of the "more expensive" is the price for air that the airlines have caused artificial fare inflation because they found they could get away with it by restricting the number of available aircraft.  Additionally, if you're cruising overseas, Regent includes Business class which is much more expensive.

 

I've personally experienced better quality and value on Regent.

[Georgia_Peaches]

55 minutes ago, ChucktownSteve said:

I keep seeing that people say Regent is much more expensive.  I actually didn't experience that.  During 2021 I booked three Regent cruises that were actually over $100pp/pn than a similar size suite on Celebrity but had much more amenities included.

I was just looking at a 2026 Regent cruise which was a little less than $100pp/pn for a Celebrity suite one year earlier in the same region.  But again Regent included all the premium extras. 

 

What I found the main difference is pricing Regent without the included air.  A large portion of the "more expensive" is the price for air that the airlines have caused artificial fare inflation because they found they could get away with it by restricting the number of available aircraft.  Additionally, if you're cruising overseas, Regent includes Business class which is much more expensive.

 

I've personally experienced better quality and value on Regent.

We just booked Regent for 2025 with business class air to Italy. Cost was $10,999 pp for 11 nights plus $1000 obc from Regent and $1725 obc from our TA. I’m pretty happy with that. 

[CruseKrazy]

RCCL share price has doubled in the past year.  They must be doing something right.

[terrydtx]

10 minutes ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

We just booked Regent for 2025 with business class air to Italy. Cost was $10,999 pp for 11 nights plus $1000 obc from Regent and $1725 obc from our TA. I’m pretty happy with that. 

Wow, that looks like a great price considering BC from the US to Italy this year is running over $4k pp. We need to look at Regent.

[terrydtx]

4 minutes ago, CruseKrazy said:

RCCL share price has doubled in the past year.  They must be doing something right.

All of those nickel and dimes are meaning big profits. 🤣

[Georgia_Peaches]

14 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

Wow, that looks like a great price considering BC from the US to Italy this year is running over $4k pp. We need to look at Regent.

Agree.  I did a mock booking for airfare to get an idea of the cost if we were going this year and it was a lot more than the $2800 airfare supplement Regent charges for business class.  Not having sailed with them before, my only hope is that we can pick our airline.

[TeeRick]

27 minutes ago, CruseKrazy said:

RCCL share price has doubled in the past year.  They must be doing something right.

RCG still carries huge loans and debt.

[NutsAboutGolf]

If anyone wants to try regent, idk if this includes BC airfare or not as I’m looking at a 3rd party TA site.  If they do include BC, this is a great deal.  Dec 5th, in a suite, 17 nights, only 5 sea days, Bali to Sydney, $5,080/pp before fees and taxes

[ChucktownSteve]

You do realize  that as we share our good Regent rates compared to Celebrity, that this will diminish available inventory and increase our rates when we want to book. 🙂

Regent's largest ships have only about 750 passengers! Navigator has under 500.

 

Nevermind everyone. Regent is TOO expensive.  Please don't consider them.

Edited August 29, 2023 by ChucktownSteve

[D. B.]

On 8/27/2023 at 10:43 AM, terrydtx said:

My first class flight from DFW to FLL on American in June looked like the picture above, we got one drink in a plastic cup with a biscotti cookie for our premium snack.

On a 2 hour flight they don’t have time to cook the good stuff.

most of the flight is climbing to cruise altitude and descending for landing.

[D. B.]

2 hours ago, hubofhockey said:

Well, isn’t that the reason mass market cruise lines don’t build small ships anymore?  The only way to make them work is by charging more per passenger.  You pay extra for that experience.  Some pay much more for high level suites on Celebrity and some pay more for Oceania or much more for Regent.  It’s a bunch of trade offs.  We’ll know things are different when Celebrity builds more M class ships after the current ones reach the ends of their useful lives.  That’s about 10 years away.

Like the M class ships I’m on the same timeline for the end of a useful life.

I just hope I last as long as they do! And vice versa.😘

[killaypirate]

Will not be returning to X. On Princess next week so will see what that’s like. Otherwise Azamara with/without flying, or non-X from Southampton with no flying.