Current load factors

[FlyerTalker]

8 hours ago, Keith1010 said:

Question for the experts. Likewise, do they change the amount of award miles needed for the same flight. I remember in the old days I knew what the miles would be based on upgrade or using all miles but these days I am not sure if that is set in stone or not.  But I am sure some of you do so was curious.

 

The days of award charts is fast dwindling away.  DL and UA have completely abolished charts, AA has abolished them for their own flights, and is moving away from charts for partner awards.  AS has also moved into dynamic awards.  For WN, since their points are direct equivalents to cash, there have never been charts.

 

A number of foreign carriers do still have charts, and some still have great sweet-spots.  ANA round-trip awards in business and first are a steal.  Virgin awards on DL metal are still good, though going away.

 

 

[sasejm]

On the old Crystal Cruises, we were upgraded from a windowed cabin to a cabin with a veranda on several occasions. The first upgrade was the first cruise right after the fire in the engine room on the Crystal Harmony in October 1990. I thought we had been upgraded because we had to be rebooked because of the fire. Then, to my surprise, we were upgraded several times, maybe 3 or 4, on the Serenity. The last upgrade on the Serenty was from a windowed cabin to a PH for each of us since we had booked as solos in April 2019. The remainder of the upgrades were from a windowed cabin to a cabin with a veranda. We were never upgraded on the Symphony. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by sasejm

[skybluewaters]

5 hours ago, crickette said:

And sometimes the "upgrade for operational reasons" is a downgrade.  We were moved from a mid-ship B to a (very) forward A1 which Crystal considered an upgrade because it was a deck higher.  

 

How did this happen? Did you choose to accept the upgrade without knowing the exact cabin you would be receiving? 

[Cruise-y]

American Airlines actually tried to downgrade me once, through subterfuge.  I had used AAdvantage miles to book (online) two trips to Rome which included a plane change in Chicago. To my utter amazement, first class was offered for significantly less miles than business class (like half) so I nabbed it. There was an 8 hour layover which I actually wanted and planned. This was approximately 3 months prior to the trip. I assume the pricing may have been a glitch. 

 

A few weeks before my flight I got a notice that American had “automatically” changed my first flight so I would have a 35 minute layover. Everyone knows you can’t do an international layover at O’Hare in 35 minutes. Flights from my city to Chicago are always late. At a minimum, your bags won’t make it.  And if I inevitably missed my flight, there was not another until the next day, with business and first class undoubtedly full. 
 

i was furious. And I’m Platinum Plus. It was a ruse to sell those first class seats at a better price. I was told there was no way to change it back by multiple agents because it was “automatic.” I won’t bore you with details but I had to finally pull my own shenanigans to get it back. 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Cruise-y

[crickette]

3 hours ago, skybluewaters said:

 

How did this happen? Did you choose to accept the upgrade without knowing the exact cabin you would be receiving? 

The booked mid-ship was uninhabitable.  

[KenzSailing]

4 hours ago, sasejm said:

On the old Crystal Cruises, we were upgraded from a windowed cabin to a cabin with a veranda on several occasions. The first upgrade was the first cruise right after the fire in the engine room on the Crystal Harmony in October 1990. I thought we had been upgraded because we had to be rebooked because of the fire. Then, to my surprise, we were upgraded several times, maybe 3 or 4, on the Serenity. The last upgrade on the Serenty was from a windowed cabin to a PH for each of us since we had booked as solos in April 2019. The remainder of the upgrades were from a windowed cabin to a cabin with a veranda. We were never upgraded on the Symphony. 

 

Oh my, with that track record, could you please provide me with the next lotto numbers?😁

[sasejm]

5 minutes ago, KenzSailing said:

 

Oh my, with that track record, could you please provide me with the next lotto numbers?😁

 

I've had better luck with upgrades than I've had playing the lotto. 

[sullaRaffaello]

I've had 2 complimentary upgrades on OC from minimum rate non-balcony deck 7 cabins to deck 9 balcony cabins, once from a guarantee, and once from an assigned cabin. The latter was on the ill-fated Grand Voyage of Jan. 2022. The interesting thing about the GV was that about 2 weeks before, my agent told me I had an upgrade offer to something on deck 10 for $20K. I declined it and wound up on deck 9 for nothing.

[TER777]

Cruise starting Monday on Symphony ~500. 

[BWIVince]

9 minutes ago, TER777 said:

Cruise starting Monday on Symphony ~500. 

 

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out in the new world.  That's kind of where I predict Symphony's average to be, since she can never practically reach capacity in the real world.  It'll be higher on some sailings, but 500 seems like a "norm" now.  That's just a gut instinct though, without much history yet.

 

Vince

[Roland4]

2 hours ago, BWIVince said:

 

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out in the new world.  That's kind of where I predict Symphony's average to be, since she can never practically reach capacity in the real world.  It'll be higher on some sailings, but 500 seems like a "norm" now.  That's just a gut instinct though, without much history yet.

 

Vince

We have now heard from three different sources, who we trust, that guest numbers on Serenity will increase significantly starting in early November and leading up to the Holiday cruises and the WC. The numbers for the next segment, Quebec to NYC, will be similar to what we currently have.

[travelberlin]

4 hours ago, Roland4 said:

We have now heard from three different sources, who we trust, that guest numbers on Serenity will increase significantly starting in early November and leading up to the Holiday cruises and the WC. The numbers for the next segment, Quebec to NYC, will be similar to what we currently have.

Good to know…lets hope this Company is successful.

Ivi

[edgee]

On 9/10/2023 at 3:07 PM, BWIVince said:

I’ll toss in that the only upgrades I’ve ever heard of or received on Crystal were operational upgrades, where Crystal assigned an upgrade because they needed a specific cabin for some reason, an assigned cabin went out of service, or they were assigning guarantees that were accepted in consideration of which inventory was available higher in the categories.  
 

Crystal’s dedication to pricing integrity and not just passing out willy nilly comp upgrades is my favorite practices of old Crystal.  I hope that continues.

 

Vince

I booked a regular balcony guarantee on Symphony in 2018 and was upgraded to a Seabreeze suite or whatever they called it for a 14 night cruise.

[BWIVince]

7 hours ago, edgee said:

I booked a regular balcony guarantee on Symphony in 2018 and was upgraded to a Seabreeze suite or whatever they called it for a 14 night cruise.

That’s a perfect example (like the ones upthread) of the operational upgrades that Crystal used to give — ones that served an operational purpose on their side.

 

Vince

[doglover214]

I’m on the October 21st cruise, Quebec to Miami. Does anyone know the number of guests expected on that cruise?

So excited!

[HUNKY]

Vince

 

why do you say Symphony can not reach capacity?  Isn’t that the goal of any cruise line?

[BWIVince]

2 hours ago, HUNKY said:

Vince

 

why do you say Symphony can not reach capacity?  Isn’t that the goal of any cruise line?

Crystal runs a little differently in that regard…. Not that it’s not Crystal’s goal to sell as many berths as possible, but there are a lot of complications:

 

1). Crystal has an exceptionally high rate of singles.  The new single cabins sort of address this to a small degree, but based on my first hand experience so far, not every solo wants or is booking the designated solid cabins.  Solos take out half the berths of each cabin they book.

 

2). Although not currently advertised, the third berths in the former penthouses still exist,  which Crystal almost never sells (for many reasons).  They may have taken these out of the current capacity number already, but since it’s sort of a constructed number and not an actual count of berths onboard, it’ll be interesting to see if any of these are taken into account at all.

 

3). Some cabin inventory is almost always out of service for maintenance or other issues, and some is always held back for complaints or other issues that arise in normal operation.
 

4). OC used to regularly need revenue cabins on Symphony to house supplemental staff plus invited guests like lecturers and hosts.  Some extra formerly revenue cabins seem to have been taken out of inventory permanently to address this, but the number of cabins removed from Symphony doesn’t jive with the OC scenarios, even adjusted for the lowered capacity…. So this one remains to be seen.

 

…Those are the reasons Symphony can’t physically reach capacity — outside of that there is also just a wedge of the pie for how much inventory will likely go unsold on the less popular cruises.  I’m hopeful the reduction in inventory will close this gap finally, but I’ve seen a half dozen management teams try to address this factor in a variety of ways over the past 30+ years (including inventory reduction already), so I’d still mark this past TBD.  That part is outside of your question though, I was just tacking that on because I factored that in my estimate.

 

Vince

[travelberlin]

13 hours ago, BWIVince said:

Crystal runs a little differently in that regard…. Not that it’s not Crystal’s goal to sell as many berths as possible, but there are a lot of complications:

 

1). Crystal has an exceptionally high rate of singles.  The new single cabins sort of address this to a small degree, but based on my first hand experience so far, not every solo wants or is booking the designated solid cabins.  Solos take out half the berths of each cabin they book.

 

 

Vince

Thanks for your explanation Vince. I am surprised that Crystal has an extraordinary number of solo cruisers. Maybe that was for Old Crystal. However, I have cruised in several cruise lines  also as solo, and I did not realized that this number was extraordinary higher for Crystal cruises. All cruise lines have a good number of solo cruisers, paying either a solo rate or full rate, what percentage of solo cruisers are cruising now with the New Crystal?  I know the few solo cabins get sold very quickly but how many solo cruisers do you estimate are going to be willing to pay double for the cabins after their cruise of  preference has been sold out?

 

I think, that well travelled solo cruisers, do have limits on which per diems they are willing to pay for an itinerary. I least I know some people, including myself, that would not pay per diems which are above other comparable cruise lines.

 

Ivi
 

Edited September 17, 2023 by travelberlin

[sasejm]

10 minutes ago, travelberlin said:

Thanks for your explanation Vince. I am surprised that Crystal has an extraordinary number of solo cruisers. Maybe that was for Old Crystal. However, I have cruised in several cruise lines  also as solo, and I did not realized that this number was extraordinary higher for Crystal cruises. All cruise lines have a good number of solo cruisers, paying either a solo rate or full rate, what percentage of solo cruisers are cruising now with the New Crystal?  I know the few solo cabins get sold very quickly but how many solo cruisers do you estimate are going to be willing to pay double for the cabins after their cruise of  preference has been sold out?

 

I think, that well travelled solo cruisers, do have limits on which per diems they are willing to pay for an itinerary. I least I know some people, including myself, that would not pay per diems which are above other comparable cruise lines.

 

Ivi
 

 

Ivi,

I called Crystal last week to book a cruise on the Symphony. The reason why I called Crystal directly rather than contacting my travel agent, is that I had many questions my agent would have had to get from Crystal to get the answers. One of the topics we discussed was booking solo cabins. If I recall correctly, he said if you are interested in a particular cruise and want to book a double cabin as a solo within six months (could have been 90 or 60 days) of the cruise, the solo supplemental could be a lot lower than the posted 100%. So, if you are interested in a particular cruise and you want a double cabin, as a solo, not the big suites, I would check with Crystal directly or your travel agent. After I got all my questions answered, I booked directly with Crystal, not as a solo, and he transferred the reservation to my travel agent for their commission. I hope this makes sense and helps you.

[Observer]

38 minutes ago, travelberlin said:

I think, that well travelled solo cruisers, do have limits on which per diems they are willing to pay for an itinerary. I least I know some people, including myself, that would not pay per diems which are above other comparable cruise lines.

 

Ivi
 

 

This is precisely my situation. I would like to return to Crystal occasionally, especially with reduced guest capacity. As a solo, I can be comfortable in the smaller Crystal cabins.  However, I require a veranda attached to my cabin, and the Crystal fares for solos in cabins with verandas are far higher than can be found on other luxury lines like Silversea.

[sasejm]

6 minutes ago, Observer said:

 

This is precisely my situation. I would like to return to Crystal occasionally, especially with reduced guest capacity. As a solo, I can be comfortable in the smaller Crystal cabins.  However, I require a veranda attached to my cabin, and the Crystal fares for solos in cabins with verandas are far higher than can be found on other luxury lines like Silversea.

 

Observer - See post # 44.

[Observer]

1 minute ago, sasejm said:

 

Observer - See post # 44.

 

Thank you. I noted that post and was tempted to respond.  Clearly, Crystal is using dynamic pricing in this instance.  It does not work for me. For various reasons, I must book well in advance.  Furthermore, I imagine that this arrangement might distress solo guests who had booked long in advance and find that their solo neighbor on board has a much lower single supplement.  

[Keith1010]

Yes Crystal is using dynamic pricing and I remember reading from them that the percentage that a solo person will pay will vary.

 

I realize this was only the first two cruises but I saw many solo travelers on board and that includes some from this board.  And I know of several solo travelers who were on board who were in Suites not just solo rooms or double rooms.

 

Keith 

[BWIVince]

5 hours ago, travelberlin said:

Thanks for your explanation Vince. I am surprised that Crystal has an extraordinary number of solo cruisers. Maybe that was for Old Crystal. However, I have cruised in several cruise lines  also as solo, and I did not realized that this number was extraordinary higher for Crystal cruises. All cruise lines have a good number of solo cruisers, paying either a solo rate or full rate, what percentage of solo cruisers are cruising now with the New Crystal?  I know the few solo cabins get sold very quickly but how many solo cruisers do you estimate are going to be willing to pay double for the cabins after their cruise of  preference has been sold out?

 

I think, that well travelled solo cruisers, do have limits on which per diems they are willing to pay for an itinerary. I least I know some people, including myself, that would not pay per diems which are above other comparable cruise lines.

 

Ivi
 

YMMV, Ivi…. I’m also a solo and I was just about as satisfied with NC’s solo offerings  as OC’s, relative to fares in the rest of the luxury segment right now.  From my observation of trip reports so far, solos continue to book a variety of categories on Crystal as they always have, and the single supplement has always been graduated.  For my cruise next year, I had the option of booking the solos (which didn’t suit me in this case), or verandas for a higher supplement just like in the past.  Fares are higher than in 2020, but where in the travel industry aren’t they?  
 

I wish Crystal hadn’t gone with dedicated solo cabins, but I expressed the risk of that years ago when this was floated out and I was in the minority, and my closing comment on that was “watch what you wish for”…. That said, I don’t think it’s the end of the world, and certainly didn’t keep me from booking Crystal as a solo.  The evidence so far is very anecdotal, but I’m still seeing lots of solos I know booking Crystal so far.

 

Vince

[travelberlin]

Is any body else worried about the current load on the ships? I have just read, the Symphony is sailing currently with less than 200 passengers. How about the Serenity?

 

I really want this company to be successful.

 

Ivi