Person Attacked on Carnival Magic

[Canadian_J]

1 minute ago, joe/jack said:

I’m beginning to wonder if the crime

that is on the news every night is now moving in to the cruise industry. 
What the hell is going? Is it just Carnival? 

 

To a degree, I don't think this is necessarily new. But with social media and connectivity where it is today, we certainly have the ability to know about more than ever. Pair that with a media industry who is highly incentivized to sensationalize, and you can see where I'm going with this. We never have known about every occurrence, nor should we. So I take these reports with a grain of salt.

 

I will say that whenever I'm in Florida and we turn on the news, we are genuinely surprised (every time!) that crime/murders are reported as just such a routine occurrence. Maybe that's the naïve sheltered Canadian in me, but we have to laugh (morbidly perhaps) and turn it off, it's not the kind of TV news we're used to. We aren't a lot better up here, but man it's different.

 

All I'll say about Carnival's clientele (and respectfully - as I'm still one of them - albeit less then I used to be) is that with a certain market comes a certain crowd. I work in aviation and we see it here too. It's not an absolute, you can get bad/crazy people anywhere. But when you have the lowest fares, you do get a set of people who don't know the rules or the consequences of them and tend to push them more (or differently) than you do with those who are more experienced or "well off" travelers. It also can have to do with the regions/routes. A short weekend cruise from a smaller homeport will always have more "issues" than a 9+ night cruise from a larger port that tends to attract a very different clientele (older, quieter, less fun, but usually less rowdy - for example).

 

And that's my two (Canadian) cents. Except we don't have a penny anymore, so you'll get a nickel, which is worth about two US pennies...cheers!

[Canadian_J]

4 minutes ago, mz-s said:

 

It's not just Carnival, but it does seem like Carnival is getting the worst of it.

 

I think part of it is Carnival doesn't enforce any of their rules, so things eventually boil over.

 

Agreed, enforcement is key. Whenever folks see news (or viral events) of folks breaking rules, there are inevitably some who are emboldened or at the least not deterred from doing the same. When we see examples of enforcement and companies taking a strong response, that can be some of the best deterred to others. Look at unruly passenger events with airlines, another very similar example. Folks need to know there are rules and that they'll be enforced. It deters people from breaking them and gives confidence to other passengers that they'll be safe.

[SwordBlazer Cruising]

I think in this case, someone committing murder in their cabin is a bit far beyond enforcement. Look at what all the airline employees went through during the pandemic. They enforced as they could being regulated by the FAA but people still did what they want, punched flight attendants, etc. This is 2024 and some people have no decorum or regard, they do what they want. On a cruise ship, shopping mall, airline. 

[MistyRo76]

1 hour ago, Canadian_J said:

 

All I'll say about Carnival's clientele (and respectfully - as I'm still one of them - albeit less then I used to be) is that with a certain market comes a certain crowd. I work in aviation and we see it here too. It's not an absolute, you can get bad/crazy people anywhere. But when you have the lowest fares, you do get a set of people who don't know the rules or the consequences of them and tend to push them more (or differently) than you do with those who are more experienced or "well off" travelers. It also can have to do with the regions/routes. A short weekend cruise from a smaller homeport will always have more "issues" than a 9+ night cruise from a larger port that tends to attract a very different clientele (older, quieter, less fun, but usually less rowdy - for example).

 

 

I also work in aviation. My previous job was in commercial aviation. I worked Customer Service at a large hub airport. I can't tell you how many times we had to call the airport police to deal with a drunk/passed out/unruly passenger. And many times it was your well-traveled business flyer! I now work in private aviation. My current clientele are Forbes 100 level executives/ultra wealthy/elite passengers flying on upwards of $80M private jets. You can't even imagine how some of these people are! When I worked with my previous employer, we had a jet full of high-level corporate executives completely destroy a practically new aircraft on a charter trip. One guy was so drunk, he urinated all over the plane lavatory, there was damage done to the seats, spills, etc. 

 

My point to that is, this kind of behavior is not specific to one demographic and even the wealthy, well-traveled person can be an offender! This behavior can happen anywhere and by anyone. And the cruise staff can't be everywhere. But hopefully they are addressing things quickly when becoming aware of an issue. 

 

Having just come off a cruise two weeks ago, I do think Carnival is trying to do a better job of policing unruly behavior. I didn't see any really drunk or out of line behavior on our cruise and didn't even smell weed while out on our balcony!  

[Crusin Hogs]

16 hours ago, mz-s said:

 

Considering it's against the law to withhold toilet facilities from someone, the only amenity their cabin would really have would be the TV - and trust me, the TV on Carnival is no big amenity.

Outside the US   same laws do not apply

[mz-s]

1 minute ago, Crusin Hogs said:

Outside the US   same laws do not apply

 

It's true that Carnival doesn't have to abide by say gambling laws (so don't expect to win money in their casinos) or tax laws when they're in the middle of the ocean. But there are international treaties that govern how to treat criminals prisoners etc.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, Canadian_J said:

 

Agreed, enforcement is key. Whenever folks see news (or viral events) of folks breaking rules, there are inevitably some who are emboldened or at the least not deterred from doing the same. When we see examples of enforcement and companies taking a strong response, that can be some of the best deterred to others. Look at unruly passenger events with airlines, another very similar example. Folks need to know there are rules and that they'll be enforced. It deters people from breaking them and gives confidence to other passengers that they'll be safe.

Yes, I remember a college professor in a class I was taking say that the two worst laws ever passed were speeding and alternate side of the street parking. And the reason that they are the worst is that everyone disobeys them with no consequences. And once you break that first law with no consequences, the next one is easier to break.

[MJSailors]

Demographics-possibly. 
Offering the drink package -possibly.

Passengers taking the 15 drink per day allowance as a challenge/goal  to complete-most  likely.

As for the report of the woman allegedly murdering her husband-they , most likely, we’re having problems before they even boarded the ship.

MJ

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

Yes, I remember a college professor in a class I was taking say that the two worst laws ever passed were speeding and alternate side of the street parking. And the reason that they are the worst is that everyone disobeys them with no consequences. And once you break that first law with no consequences, the next one is easier to break.

Now that does sound like something a college professor would say.

[jimbo5544]

58 minutes ago, MJSailors said:

 

As for the report of the woman allegedly murdering her husband-they , most likely, we’re having problems before they even boarded the ship.

MJ

Do you think????

[chengkp75]

18 hours ago, mz-s said:

 

Considering it's against the law to withhold toilet facilities from someone, the only amenity their cabin would really have would be the TV - and trust me, the TV on Carnival is no big amenity.

 

2 hours ago, Crusin Hogs said:

Outside the US   same laws do not apply

Let's look at this.  The UN, has set the right to sanitation to be a universal human right.  While both Panama and Bahamas are signatory to the convention, the US has not formally ratified the convention, with the thinking that sanitation is not a basic human right, but a socio-economic one.  So, the major flag states for cruise ships are more forward thinking than the US, with regards to access to sanitation.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

 

Let's look at this.  The UN, has set the right to sanitation to be a universal human right.  While both Panama and Bahamas are signatory to the convention, the US has not formally ratified the convention, with the thinking that sanitation is not a basic human right, but a socio-economic one.  So, the major flag states for cruise ships are more forward thinking than the US, with regards to access to sanitation.

🤦‍♂️, just amazing.

[Drew B 58]

7 hours ago, SwordBlazer Cruising said:

I think in this case, someone committing murder in their cabin is a bit far beyond enforcement. Look at what all the airline employees went through during the pandemic. They enforced as they could being regulated by the FAA but people still did what they want, punched flight attendants, etc. This is 2024 and some people have no decorum or regard, they do what they want. On a cruise ship, shopping mall, airline. 

It’s 2024?!?!?!  Oh no!  I missed my November 2023 cruise!!!  😉

Edited October 24, 2023 by Drew B 58

[SwordBlazer Cruising]

2 hours ago, Drew B 58 said:

It’s 2024?!?!?!  Oh no!  I missed my November 2023 cruise!!!  😉

Lol, I advanced myself a bit there! 😂

[groundloop]

10 hours ago, MistyRo76 said:

....... and didn't even smell weed while out on our balcony!  

 

I'm not sure if Carnival is doing so across the fleet, but on my last two cruises (August and October) everybody was "inspected" by drug dogs before boarding.  I'm sure this is having an impact. 

 

There was a woman in front of me on the last cruise that was detained after the dog hit on her carry-on.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by groundloop

[MistyRo76]

16 minutes ago, groundloop said:

 

I'm not sure if Carnival is doing so across the fleet, but on my last two cruises (August and October) everybody was "inspected" by drug dogs before boarding.  I'm sure this is having an impact. 

 

There was a woman in front of me on the last cruise that was detained after the dog hit on her carry-on.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes…we experienced the same in Charleston earlier this month! We had to set our carryons down and step back and then dog came by and checked all of them. First time I’ve experienced that! 

[luvcruzing]

11 hours ago, mz-s said:

It's true that Carnival doesn't have to abide by say gambling laws

Not true. See post #2164 of @jam19872016 current Carnival review.

[momin05]

14 hours ago, Canadian_J said:

A friend who disembarked the Carnival Sunshine yesterday reported that a woman allegedly fatally stabbed her husband in their cabin. Apparently the authorities and coroner attended the ship's disembarkation in Charleston SC yesterday morning. Couldn't find anything in the news to verify it yet,  but apparently it was quite a scene at disembarkation. Busy few days...

We disembarked Sunshine yesterday and that was the word. I have searched and don’t see anything about it in the media. Someone did take a picture from their balcony of authorities taking the body off the ship, so that definitely happened. The story was the wife walked in on the husband cheating.  Not substantiated, of course. 

[dbrown84]

first, with a ship full of food, I wonder what this person was allowed to eat.  I hope it was better than a couple of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches :)

 

2nd, I wonder how jurisdiction will work with this.  Article doesn't say where the ship was when the fight happened, so I'm just assuming they were in international waters.  I see the FBI showed up, but I don't if this would really qualify as a federal offense.  Local Norfolk courts would have a hard time trying this case, based on whether they even have jurisdiction and gathering up witnesses for any trial.   I'm guessing this person will get off pretty light with this one.

[hurricane0226]

16 hours ago, Canadian_J said:

 

To a degree, I don't think this is necessarily new. But with social media and connectivity where it is today, we certainly have the ability to know about more than ever. Pair that with a media industry who is highly incentivized to sensationalize, and you can see where I'm going with this. We never have known about every occurrence, nor should we. So I take these reports with a grain of salt.

 

I will say that whenever I'm in Florida and we turn on the news, we are genuinely surprised (every time!) that crime/murders are reported as just such a routine occurrence. Maybe that's the naïve sheltered Canadian in me, but we have to laugh (morbidly perhaps) and turn it off, it's not the kind of TV news we're used to. We aren't a lot better up here, but man it's different.

 

All I'll say about Carnival's clientele (and respectfully - as I'm still one of them - albeit less then I used to be) is that with a certain market comes a certain crowd. I work in aviation and we see it here too. It's not an absolute, you can get bad/crazy people anywhere. But when you have the lowest fares, you do get a set of people who don't know the rules or the consequences of them and tend to push them more (or differently) than you do with those who are more experienced or "well off" travelers. It also can have to do with the regions/routes. A short weekend cruise from a smaller homeport will always have more "issues" than a 9+ night cruise from a larger port that tends to attract a very different clientele (older, quieter, less fun, but usually less rowdy - for example).

 

And that's my two (Canadian) cents. Except we don't have a penny anymore, so you'll get a nickel, which is worth about two US pennies...cheers!

Must be the walmart crowd.

[chengkp75]

7 hours ago, dbrown84 said:

first, with a ship full of food, I wonder what this person was allowed to eat.  I hope it was better than a couple of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches 🙂

 

2nd, I wonder how jurisdiction will work with this.  Article doesn't say where the ship was when the fight happened, so I'm just assuming they were in international waters.  I see the FBI showed up, but I don't if this would really qualify as a federal offense.  Local Norfolk courts would have a hard time trying this case, based on whether they even have jurisdiction and gathering up witnesses for any trial.   I'm guessing this person will get off pretty light with this one.

The US has claimed "extra-territorial" jurisdiction over certain crimes (assault, rape, murder, theft) against US citizens that happened on a foreign flag cruise ship while in international waters.  So, it would be a federal crime, and investigated by the FBI, if it happened.  I haven't read the whole thread, so I don't know if the "authorities" mentioned above were the FBI or local law enforcement.  Any death of a US citizen on a ship would have law enforcement receiving the body at the port, whether it was criminal or natural death.

[dbrown84]

19 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The US has claimed "extra-territorial" jurisdiction over certain crimes (assault, rape, murder, theft) against US citizens that happened on a foreign flag cruise ship while in international waters.  So, it would be a federal crime, and investigated by the FBI, if it happened.  I haven't read the whole thread, so I don't know if the "authorities" mentioned above were the FBI or local law enforcement.  Any death of a US citizen on a ship would have law enforcement receiving the body at the port, whether it was criminal or natural death.

Yeah, that's what made me wonder.  Both the FBI and local law enforcement showed up.  But you're right, the FBI usually has jurisdiction in these cases.  I'm sure the flagged country wouldn't want any part of this 

[Lizard13]

In response to the crowd on the Carnival ship, this was an “old and cold” cruise to Canada.  Many more middle age and up and families.  Not as rowdy as I have seen on Caribbean cruises.  Once the final buffet closed down, lights out.

[Amyracecar]

On 10/24/2023 at 1:01 PM, Canadian_J said:

All I'll say about Carnival's clientele (and respectfully - as I'm still one of them - albeit less then I used to be) is that with a certain market comes a certain crowd. I work in aviation and we see it here too. It's not an absolute, you can get bad/crazy people anywhere. But when you have the lowest fares, you do get a set of people who don't know the rules or the consequences of them and tend to push them more (or differently) than you do with those who are more experienced or "well off" travelers. It also can have to do with the regions/routes. A short weekend cruise from a smaller homeport will always have more "issues" than a 9+ night cruise from a larger port that tends to attract a very different clientele (older, quieter, less fun, but usually less rowdy - for example).

 

I think there will certainly be a bit of bad behaviour on a short cruise where people are just booking for a cheap weekend of alcohol and merriment, but serious incidents seem to be happening everywhere unfortunately. 

There was an incident on the Carnival Pride during the Oct 8th-18th Sailing in Europe, where a family member threw a glass at her cousin in the main dining room and caused fairly significant cuts and bleeding. I feel a bit sad for the majority as it was a great crowd and generally I felt people were well behaved, with no major rowdiness in public areas that I noticed myself. This one doesn't seem to have been widely reported, perhaps because it was a family argument and was dealt with by Carnival disembarking the attacker at the first opportunity. 

 

It's perhaps just a reflection on society, as more stories like these seem to be reported everywhere. We've just got to be responsible for ourselves and try to provide a better example, I guess. 

[Joebucks]

On 10/24/2023 at 7:57 AM, mz-s said:

 

It's not just Carnival, but it does seem like Carnival is getting the worst of it.

 

I think part of it is Carnival doesn't enforce any of their rules, so things eventually boil over.

 

I'm sick of Carnival not enforcing chair hogging and the no murder rules.