Crystal New Builds: What are the Essentials?

[Roland4]

2 hours ago, rafinmd said:

I expect the new builds will be larger than the existing ships.  I would like to see the increased size be in the form of a greater length or beam rather than more decks so the ships could still get under the bridges that at least Serenity can navigate.

 

Roy

The problem with that is Serenity is already "Pana-Max",  so making a new ship wider/longer makes no sense as it would restrict it to to the new canal. Having sailed on Regent Splendor, Seabourn Ovation, and Silver Moon in the last 18 months, something on that size, or maybe a little larger, would make the most sense. We just came off Oceania Vista, virtually the same size as Serenity, and with a full ship of 1,200 guests it just felt too crowded all the time!

[Keith1010]

8 hours ago, rafinmd said:

I expect the new builds will be larger than the existing ships.  I would like to see the increased size be in the form of a greater length or beam rather than more decks so the ships could still get under the bridges that at least Serenity can navigate.

 

Roy

Roy I believe they won't be larger but we shall see.When this was announced it was mentioned the ocean vessels would be sized to carry 650 guests and the expedition ships 220 guests.  Symphony and Serenity were sized to carry a greater number of guests and even with larger suites I don't see the shops being larger than the present ones but as they say time will tell.

 

Keith

[BWIVince]

This is the loop that the last 3.5 ocean new build programs kind of got caught in…. (3.5 = the 2007 project, the revisit of the 2007 project after the recession (the .5), the exclusive class, and the diamond class)

 

On the updraft (the momentum to make the ships larger), you have the desire for larger standard staterooms, the demand for more, larger dining venues with more flexible hours, the need for more staff accommodations that’s needed to fulfill those, the wish to not lose any of the current amenities, the need for additional bells and whistles that new ships have added, and the need for a large critical mass of passengers to cover all this extra overhead.

 

On the downdraft (the momentum to restrict the size), you have the need for the ships to navigate global ports, the intimacy needed for a luxury product, and the economic reality of lower demand at the top of the market pricing pyramid.  You can’t just keep adding cabins to cover all the costs of all of the requirements in the updraft.

 

…So Crystal has ended up in this cycle of designing a ship that checks all the boxes but the numbers don’t work, so they make cuts that make the numbers work better but hurt the viability of the project, then they have to add the amenities back but then the numbers don’t work again.  Wash, rinse and repeat.

 

(For anyone that’s new to this, where Crystal varies from its competitors, it’s ocean ship general arrangement formula was designed for smaller staterooms and more public amenities, because Harmony was not originally aimed at the luxury segment when that general arrangement was set and the brand standards established.  Crystal has managed to close the gap on the numbers at many points in its history by tweaking the product strategically, but fundamentally the numbers have never really worked because you can’t charge enough for staterooms this small, or sell enough of them at higher prices to fill that many staterooms and cover all these costs.  Similarly, you can’t just turn the pyramid upside down and sell more larger suites than smaller ones at the same premium as if the pyramid was right side up, so combining staterooms only goes so far before you shoot yourself in the foot.)

 

So what’s changed now?

 

Well, fares are up.  If New Crystal can command pricing in a way that every prior management team and owner has failed to do, this could be a game changer on the calculations that have undermined Crystal for over 30 years.

 

Similarly, if Crystal can make a different mix of suite composition work, it could solve the updraft/downdraft problem.  Symphony and Serenity are a good temporary test model for where this can work and where it can’t.

 

To keep this from being even more long-winded than it is I skipped over the importance of the adjacent market strategy that Genting tried (the other ships), but I will just point out that it’s no coincidence that NC is talking about expedition ships.  There is almost no way they can break the cycle above with just ocean ships in the mix — they need to add inventory that’s not competing with the rest of its inventory to move the needle in a different direction and grow their base.

 

We’ll see if they can finally find the mix that breaks the previous newbuild loop…

 

Vince

Edited December 15, 2023 by BWIVince

[cruise_loverinlaval]

Hello, we cruised on the Celebrity Beyond in December 2022 and we appreciated very much the Infinite Veranda concept.  In this type of suite/cabin, you could enjoy a larger size of cabin or convert your cabin in a standard Veranda cabin, I.e. your room and a typical veranda (balcony).  It would be nice to have that type of suite on future Crystal ship!

 

Have a look!

https://www.celebritycruises.com/things-to-do-onboard/staterooms/veranda-stateroom#:~:text=Infinite Verandas on Edge Series,out to the water's edge.

Edited December 23, 2023 by cruise_loverinlaval

[tryber]

2 hours ago, cruise_loverinlaval said:

Hello, we cruised on the Celebrity Beyond in December 2022 and we appreciated very much the Infinite Veranda concept.  In this type of suite/cabin, you could enjoy a larger size of cabin or convert your cabin in a standard Veranda cabin, I.e. your room and a typical veranda (balcony).  It would be nice to have that type of suite on future Crystal ship!

 

Have a look!

https://www.celebritycruises.com/things-to-do-onboard/staterooms/veranda-stateroom#:~:text=Infinite Verandas on Edge Series,out to the water's edge.

 

That doesn't really seem like a veranda.  It's just a really big window.  I'd rather have a real veranda.  

 

 

[cruise_loverinlaval]

1 hour ago, tryber said:

 

That doesn't really seem like a veranda.  It's just a really big window.  I'd rather have a real veranda.  

 

 

Hello, there are doors (between the room and the balcony) which you can closed and have a real veranda.  See photo attached and the location of the doors (red arrow).
 

The window (outside on the balcony) opens and it gives you exactly what you are looking for, a balcony and a room. If you do a river cruise, the French Balcony stateroom uses the same mechanism to open the window and have fresh air!

 

[ctjon]

On the technical side - I assume any new ship will have the plug in when docked ability so they don't have to run engines when docked.  There are already ports that only allow plug in docking and I'm sure there will be many more.

[History&Wine]

17 hours ago, cruise_loverinlaval said:

Hello, there are doors (between the room and the balcony) which you can closed and have a real veranda.  See photo attached and the location of the doors (red arrow).
 

The window (outside on the balcony) opens and it gives you exactly what you are looking for, a balcony and a room. If you do a river cruise, the French Balcony stateroom uses the same mechanism to open the window and have fresh air!

 

I second this suggestion.  What a great idea! 

[edgee]

On 12/23/2023 at 10:41 AM, cruise_loverinlaval said:

Hello, we cruised on the Celebrity Beyond in December 2022 and we appreciated very much the Infinite Veranda concept.  In this type of suite/cabin, you could enjoy a larger size of cabin or convert your cabin in a standard Veranda cabin, I.e. your room and a typical veranda (balcony).  It would be nice to have that type of suite on future Crystal ship!

 

Have a look!

https://www.celebritycruises.com/things-to-do-onboard/staterooms/veranda-stateroom#:~:text=Infinite Verandas on Edge Series,out to the water's edge.

Have been on Celebrity and tried this concept. Completely disagree that it is an acceptable version of or anywhere close to a balcony cabin. No way to leave A/C on in the room while window is open. No real feeling of being outside like in a real balcony. 

[PaulMCO]

@BWIVince  a large amount of money was spent on the Genting new build class for Crystal.  Obviously paid for by Genting but I wonder who own the IP rights.at least for the design. But even that design probably is too old with the latest buzz being LNG and Hydrogen power.

 

You are correct - new expedition ships are definitely needed for Crystal to compete and possibly would fit in the A&K model and get away from the Ponant leases.  In order to see many places in this world an expedition is clearly the way to go.  Seabourn is really pushing the envelope here.  Other than Endeavor, Silversea's expedition fleet is old and tired.

[History&Wine]

On 12/24/2023 at 6:18 PM, edgee said:

Have been on Celebrity and tried this concept. Completely disagree that it is an acceptable version of or anywhere close to a balcony cabin. No way to leave A/C on in the room while window is open. No real feeling of being outside like in a real balcony. 

Maybe I'm missing something, but why would one have the A/C running with the window open?

 

Along this same line....if a new build were to have window only rooms (no veranda) I would like to have the option of opening the window at least partially to let in fresh air. 

[edgee]

5 minutes ago, History&Wine said:

Maybe I'm missing something, but why would one have the A/C running with the window open?

 

 

Many like to be able to go outside on balcony..enjoy the outside atmosphere and return to nice air conditioned cabin. Or one person may want to stay in air conditioned cabin while other guest goes outside on balcony. I disliked cabin being hot and humid for quite a while after opening inf veranda window. Inf. veranda cabin is poor substitute for a real balcony.

[Roland4]

48 minutes ago, edgee said:

Many like to be able to go outside on balcony..enjoy the outside atmosphere and return to nice air conditioned cabin. Or one person may want to stay in air conditioned cabin while other guest goes outside on balcony. I disliked cabin being hot and humid for quite a while after opening inf veranda window. Inf. veranda cabin is poor substitute for a real balcony.

I agree! This layout might work in temperate climes, or even in the Caribbean, but in extreme heat (Panama Canal), or cool (Alaska) it is problematic. Another complaint, at least when CEL first came up with these rooms, is that the "interior" door does not have drapes, so if one party is an early riser and likes to sit out on the balcony, the late riser has to deal with daylight! This may have since been resolved, but it was a common complaint over on the CEL board when Edge first came into service.

[CwazeAndCwaze]

[oakridger]

I frankly don't ever frequent ship casinos but am really hoping to see them again on Crystal.....soon.... solely because I want Scott and Drew to cruise again and make more cool videos!!

😉

 

~Nancy

[CwazeAndCwaze]

7 hours ago, oakridger said:

I frankly don't ever frequent ship casinos but am really hoping to see them again on Crystal.....soon.... solely because I want Scott and Drew to cruise again and make more cool videos!!

😉

 

~Nancy

XOXOXOXOXOXXOXOXOXOXO

[Whipsnade]

I am betting Crystal new builds will not materialize.  NYK and Genting could never make these ships profitable. Niw with the reduced pax capacity and low bookings I cannot see any lender bankrolling new builds that are anything like the Crystals we love. Hoping otherwise but I say enjoy them while they last. We will. Have four booked over next 18 months. 

[Keith1010]

6 hours ago, Whipsnade said:

I am betting Crystal new builds will not materialize.  NYK and Genting could never make these ships profitable. Niw with the reduced pax capacity and low bookings I cannot see any lender bankrolling new builds that are anything like the Crystals we love. Hoping otherwise but I say enjoy them while they last. We will. Have four booked over next 18 months. 

I don't bet but if I did I would bet on new builds.

Keith

[skybluewaters]

Let me split the baby in half:  there will be new ships, but they will be expedition ships. I believe this decision will be short-sighted, but these ships are smaller and command a higher premium, so for a small company it might make sense in the short run.  Hope I'm wrong!

[Whipsnade]

If there are any new ships the first will be an expedition ship for sure. Too bad NC/AK did not snap up the already built Crystal Expedition ship before Silversea grabbed it. A magnificent vessel. 

But any firm announcement needs to be followed with a contract to build. Then it will be wait in line at any major yard. At best, any new Crystal ship is five years away. 
So can they survive that long in the luxury market with two 30 year old ships?  
Since OC closed down two years ago we have all been trying Silversea, Regent, Seabourn and now Explora. Many of us have found we like various aspects of them. They already have new ships nearing completion. In the next three years there will be at least a half dozen new luxury ships. 
Knowing all this, if you were a bank would you lend NC a couple billion to build two or more luxury ships that won’t  hit the ocean for another six to eight years??!!

 

[FlyerTalker]

51 minutes ago, Whipsnade said:

If there are any new ships the first will be an expedition ship for sure. Too bad NC/AK did not snap up the already built Crystal Expedition ship before Silversea grabbed it. 

 

I beg to differ.  In my view, it wasn't a matter of timing, but rather that NC wasn't willing to pay the high price that Silversea offered for the Endeavour.  Bankruptcy liquidations don't go to the fastest offer, but rather to the highest bidder. IMO, Silversea suffers the winner's curse -- they got the ship, but probably overpaid at $275 million.  OTOH, Serenity went for $103 million and Symphony at $25 million.

 

Of course, others may view it differently.

 

 

[Whipsnade]

The Endeavour cost over $300 million to build. A duplicate today would probably be closer to $600 million. By the time NC. Builds a new luxury expedition ship probably be $750 million. $275 million was a bargain for that ship. 

[Keith1010]

If you remember they said they planned on two expedition and two ocean vessels.

 

They also 

 

Logic tells me the first two are one each. JMO. 

 

As to the cost, I believe the actual cost was closer to $400 Million.

 

No idea what a duplicate would cost as certain things I don't believe would be duplicated such as that outrageously large casino.  Anyway, my opinion. Time will tell including what the design is and what the cost to build is.  

 

Like I said, I don't bet but if I did I would be betting on new Crystal including new ships.

 

Keith

[travelberlin]

I would like to see balconies also for the solo rooms. Or at least french balconies with a possibility to get fresh air. 

[reenief]

Cooking space and classes would be great. That way I could replicate the chicken salad at tastes.  We think the dressing is different than previous cruises though. Love cooking classes!