Nieuw Amsterdam Explosion.

[AllTheSun]

3 hours ago, Shalandara said:

On our trip (3/9-3/16) we had a fuel leak sometime after midnight the first night -- serious enough that that there was almost the full alarm.  I was groggy with sleep and it took me more than a few moments to realize that we did not have the final blasts needed to sound the evacuation and I didn't need to go to the lifeboats...

Was the alarm accompanied by a voice announcement so novice cruisers who might have forgotten about the final blast knew not to rush to the lifeboats?

[DCThunder]

I put on the Port Everglades webcam this morning around 0830 to see which ships were in port today as I like to watch the sailaways in the afternoon.  I was very surprised to see NA sailing into port at that time.  It wasn't until a little while ago that I learned about the incident and loss of life aboard, but it certainly explains the late arrival.

 

I'm very sorry to hear of the deaths of two dedicated crew.  Thoughts and prayers to their loved ones back home.

[Tampa Girl]

On 3/22/2024 at 4:03 PM, PROCRUISE said:

Sorry about the wrong ship name. Very sad situation.

 I thought that you did state the correct ship.

[Shalandara]

2 hours ago, AllTheSun said:

Was the alarm accompanied by a voice announcement so novice cruisers who might have forgotten about the final blast knew not to rush to the lifeboats?

Yes, but it was about calling people (i.e. staff) to certain fire drill stations and other info.  It took a bit to realize that there was no call for lifeboats and to process the lack of the blasts signaling that.  As I said, I was really groggy and brain was slow.  The next morning even the "experienced" cruisers were saying how they had been in similar state of almost confusion.  Not sure if that assured the newbies or not!

While I like the safety videos there is much to be said for doing the actual muster sometimes.  I feel the same at work for fire drills.  (My job includes the aspect that we have public visitors to the building so we need to know what we are doing so we can also shepherd others to the correct exits).

[Vict0riann]

19 hours ago, Tampa Girl said:

 I thought that you did state the correct ship.

 

Originally, the thread was titled with a different ship - in between posts 12 and 13 you will notice that Host Jazzbeau changed the title of the thread.

[CDRonboard]

So sad to hear this tragic news . Praying for all those impacted 

[FLCruiser97]

Our thoughts and prayers are with the families of the deceased. May God keep them strong.

[mcrcruiser]

 Prayers for the 2 lost in the explosion ,their families & all on board

[leobear220]

We were on the ship and exited yesterday. We did not leave the ship that day so we were on board when this occurred   When the signal went off we clearly heard that it included a first aid response.  We knew that someone had to be injured, but also knew that no passenger response was required.  It must have been a low pressure release ( speculation on my part) because I did not find anyone who heard an actual explosion   Afterwards tne captain explained that there were several water leaks across the ship because of the rapid temperature changes in the lines ( thermal shock and also maybe corresponding pressure changes). We were told  the water leakage damaged electrical equipment in the Hard Rock Lounge and that caused the show to be canceled

 

This was such a sad end to a wonderful cruise

[Heidi13]

On 3/22/2024 at 1:27 PM, tomahawk43 said:

I think it’s relevant info since the next cruise is almost certain to be delayed or cancelled, and the Captain has already publicly announced what happened. At this point the cause what speculative but they have already announced what happened. 

 

The following cruise could be expected to be delayed, but since steam is not a critical component on cruise ships, it is highly unlikely the next cruise would be cancelled. 

 

Delayed departure will most likely result in waiting for the arrival of the investigating authorities.

[Heidi13]

On 3/22/2024 at 1:31 PM, CruiserBruce said:

You had the correct info...incorrect info posted in a rush just leads to confusion and worse. Believe me, I know from experience...

 

You are so correct, as the true facts will only be known once the Dutch Marine Investigation Branch releases an interim report and upon completion of the investigation, the final report. Everything until then is purely speculation, frequently from armchair experts, other than the information released by the Captain onboard the vessel 

[JAFM]

14 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

The following cruise could be expected to be delayed, but since steam is not a critical component on cruise ships, it is highly unlikely the next cruise would be cancelled. 

 

Delayed departure will most likely result in waiting for the arrival of the investigating authorities.

 

Yep, the cruise that left on Saturday was delayed until 7:30 p.m.  I believe it was originally scheduled for 3:00 p.m.

[rafinmd]

25 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

Delayed departure will most likely result in waiting for the arrival of the investigating authorities.

Delayed arrival after being delayed at HMC would also be a factor, as well as waiting for authorities.

 

Roy

[chengkp75]

29 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

You are so correct, as the true facts will only be known once the Dutch Marine Investigation Branch releases an interim report and upon completion of the investigation, the final report. Everything until then is purely speculation, frequently from armchair experts, other than the information released by the Captain onboard the vessel 

 

1 minute ago, rotjeknor said:

The CruiseLawnews article is pretty biased and draws conclusions while accusing the HAL and CCL of not following safety protocols when the investigation into what happened has yet to start….

Totally agree.  The photos give me a vital clue into the incident.  The first picture shows an "expanded" flex joint (which is a corrugated, flexible section of piping that allows for movement between the two sections of machinery) in what looks like a steam heat exchanger.  This flex joint most likely was full of water, and this blew out when steam was introduced.  There was no fire, but the space filled with hot steam.

 

As you say, Walker makes veiled accusations about the watertight door not operating.  This makes perfect sense to me.  The hydraulic watertight doors operate with no rubber sealing to make the watertight seal, it relies on hydraulic force to jam the door into a wedge shaped frame.  And, the hydraulics are strong enough to "un-jam" the door when it needs to be opened.  However, if the door is heated by the steam filling the space, it expands in the wedge frame, increasing the pressure required to open the door, likely above what could be provided by the hydraulic pump.

 

Mr. Walker also states that the workers were not equipped with EEBD, but that is not a common industry practice for nearly all work done in engine rooms, and EEBD's are most common on tankers, but also they are only a few scattered at locations around the engine room, not typically carried by workers to their worksite.

 

He also makes it sound as if HAL is guilty of something for not releasing results of internal investigations, but he doesn't say whether US companies of whatever type have to release this information, or whether that information comes from law enforcement sources, as the Flag State and class investigations equate to.

 

Just more fuel for my disdain for Walker. 

[chengkp75]

5 minutes ago, Famgel1956 said:

Umm well the information that the Cruise Law News article contained has the Dutch Safety Board (OVV) now investigating the incident! So I guess we will see! Hopefully it won’t take long 

https://nltimes.nl/2024/03/25/dutch-safety-board-investigating-cruise-ship-accident-killed-two-bahamas

That's not exactly secret or earth-shaking news.  Not only will the Flag State (OVV) investigate, but Class (Lloyd's Registry) as well.  They are required by law to investigate any incident on ships of Dutch registry that result in damage over $20,000 or death or injury.  However, without knowing Dutch freedom of information laws, whether or not the OVV is released, or when, is something else.

[jakkojakko]

25 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

That's not exactly secret or earth-shaking news.  Not only will the Flag State (OVV) investigate, but Class (Lloyd's Registry) as well.  They are required by law to investigate any incident on ships of Dutch registry that result in damage over $20,000 or death or injury.  However, without knowing Dutch freedom of information laws, whether or not the OVV is released, or when, is something else.

 

They will publish the report when finished.

Following link is the message on the ovv website of the investigation :

 

https://onderzoeksraad.nl/onderzoek/ongeval-op-cruiseschip-bij-bahamas/

 

Next is an example of a finished report, ofvan explosion on a large sailing ship:

 

https://onderzoeksraad.nl/onderzoek/explosie-aan-boord-van-een-tweemastklipper-8-juni-2006/

 

it is however all in the dutch language.

Edited March 25 by jakkojakko

[voyageur9]

The Dutch OVV is analogous to the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) in that it investigates accidents with under a mandate to  determine causal or contributing sequences, failures and deficiencies rather than to assign blame or culpability.

 

The OVV does publish its accident investigation reports. Like the NTSB, it is usually months, sometimes years, before final reports are issued depending on the complexity of the case.

 

 

[voyageur9]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

 

Totally agree.  The photos give me a vital clue into the incident.  The first picture shows an "expanded" flex joint (which is a corrugated, flexible section of piping that allows for movement between the two sections of machinery) in what looks like a steam heat exchanger.  This flex joint most likely was full of water, and this blew out when steam was introduced.  There was no fire, but the space filled with hot steam.

 

As you say, Walker makes veiled accusations about the watertight door not operating.  This makes perfect sense to me.  The hydraulic watertight doors operate with no rubber sealing to make the watertight seal, it relies on hydraulic force to jam the door into a wedge shaped frame.  And, the hydraulics are strong enough to "un-jam" the door when it needs to be opened.  However, if the door is heated by the steam filling the space, it expands in the wedge frame, increasing the pressure required to open the door, likely above what could be provided by the hydraulic pump.

 

Mr. Walker also states that the workers were not equipped with EEBD, but that is not a common industry practice for nearly all work done in engine rooms, and EEBD's are most common on tankers, but also they are only a few scattered at locations around the engine room, not typically carried by workers to their worksite.

 

He also makes it sound as if HAL is guilty of something for not releasing results of internal investigations, but he doesn't say whether US companies of whatever type have to release this information, or whether that information comes from law enforcement sources, as the Flag State and class investigations equate to.

 

Just more fuel for my disdain for Walker. 

To your point about that "if the door is heated by the steam filling the space, it expands in the wedge frame, increasing the pressure required to open the door, likely above what could be provided by the hydraulic pump" then the issue may be moot given that the those inside may have been boiled alive. However, are you also saying that maritime hydraulically-closed watertight doors are cannot be manually opened, once closed?

[chengkp75]

1 minute ago, voyageur9 said:

To your point about that "if the door is heated by the steam filling the space, it expands in the wedge frame, increasing the pressure required to open the door, likely above what could be provided by the hydraulic pump" then the issue may be moot given that the those inside may have been boiled alive. However, are you also saying that maritime hydraulically-closed watertight doors are cannot be manually opened, once closed?

No, I've opened them both using the electric motor driven pump and the hand operated pump, hundreds of times.  I am saying that extreme heat will swell the door in the frame, jamming it.  Typically, in a fire scenario, where the door may be heated by the fire, you don't open the door until the fire is out, to maintain the fire boundary.

 

Are you asking about somehow opening the door without hydraulics?  If that is the case, then no, they cannot be opened or closed manually.  The doors themselves weigh between 3/4 to one metric ton.  They cannot be closed without hydraulics either.  There is a hydraulic accumulator that stores sufficient fluid under pressure to close the door without electricity.

[DCThunder]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Just more fuel for my disdain for Walker. 

Is there a maritime expression for "ambulance chaser"? Or do seamen use the landlubber term?

[chengkp75]

1 minute ago, DCThunder said:

Is there a maritime expression for "ambulance chaser"? Or do seamen use the landlubber term?

We don't dignify them with a separate term.  Pond scum does come to mind.

[voyageur9]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

... Are you asking about somehow opening the door without hydraulics?  If that is the case, then no, they cannot be opened or closed manually.  ...

thanks for the informative response.

[Funsun60]

This has been a terrible experience for the passengers and I suspect even more so for the captain and crew who knew the persons who perished.. I am not conversed on official investigations, but I wonder how the safety inspectors can properly determine the cause when the ship sailed from the place of the incident and I presume (possibly in error) that the room where the incident occurred  has been cleared. What procedures would be used to investigate after the fact and if, in fact, evidence may not be in the same place as when the accident took place. Maybe someone more familiar with maritime critical incidents can explain. Thank you

[TiogaCruiser]

5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

We don't dignify them with a separate term.  Pond scum does come to mind.

That’s actually a pretty nice term considering their history 

[PSR]

9 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

 

Totally agree.  The photos give me a vital clue into the incident.  The first picture shows an "expanded" flex joint (which is a corrugated, flexible section of piping that allows for movement between the two sections of machinery) in what looks like a steam heat exchanger.  This flex joint most likely was full of water, and this blew out when steam was introduced.  There was no fire, but the space filled with hot steam.

 

As you say, Walker makes veiled accusations about the watertight door not operating.  This makes perfect sense to me.  The hydraulic watertight doors operate with no rubber sealing to make the watertight seal, it relies on hydraulic force to jam the door into a wedge shaped frame.  And, the hydraulics are strong enough to "un-jam" the door when it needs to be opened.  However, if the door is heated by the steam filling the space, it expands in the wedge frame, increasing the pressure required to open the door, likely above what could be provided by the hydraulic pump.

 

Mr. Walker also states that the workers were not equipped with EEBD, but that is not a common industry practice for nearly all work done in engine rooms, and EEBD's are most common on tankers, but also they are only a few scattered at locations around the engine room, not typically carried by workers to their worksite.

 

He also makes it sound as if HAL is guilty of something for not releasing results of internal investigations, but he doesn't say whether US companies of whatever type have to release this information, or whether that information comes from law enforcement sources, as the Flag State and class investigations equate to.

 

Just more fuel for my disdain for Walker. 

 

I'm just catching up and cannot find the comment you are referring to; was it removed by the monitors? And who is "Walker"?