Another one...

[cruiseny4life]

14 hours ago, UKstages said:

reading this thread, i'm reminded how wise it is to take a break from cruise critic every now and again. y'all are brutal and unforgiving and strict constitutionalists... when you want to be.

It's just that many posters forget about empathy. Someone might be in the wrong. They may have made a silly decision. Heck, they could have made absolutely every wrong move in the book. 85 isn't far off from my grandma's age. I imagine her in this situation and how this could impact her. I don't think I'd need to tell her she was wrong. Perhaps I could make some suggestions as to what she could do next time...but bottom line, there are a lot of posters lacking empathy about various happenings on these here boards. And, I'll admit, sometimes I spout off before having half a brain to consider the human element. 

[Laszlo]

7 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

It's just that many posters forget about empathy. Someone might be in the wrong. They may have made a silly decision. Heck, they could have made absolutely every wrong move in the book. 85 isn't far off from my grandma's age. I imagine her in this situation and how this could impact her. I don't think I'd need to tell her she was wrong. Perhaps I could make some suggestions as to what she could do next time...but bottom line, there are a lot of posters lacking empathy about various happenings on these here boards. And, I'll admit, sometimes I spout off before having half a brain to consider the human element. 

It starts with the Captain. I went to the meet and greet on the GA during our 12 day cruise. The captain was there with a few officers. I remember someone asking about dock runners and time to be onboard etc... The Captain was very blunt and said when we have a port sail time of 5:00pm that means the gangways are pulled at 4:45 and the dock lines are let go between 4:55 and 4:59 and we sail at 5:00pm. He also went on to say something about how they are charged by the number of passenger and by time. If they are in port past their departure time NCL is charged X amount of thousands of dollar for every minute the ship is still there. I have no idea if this is true or not. He did also went on to say the will stay and wait for NCL sponsored excursions and will not stay for a private ones. Every Captain is different, this one was German and if anyone has every traveled in Germany you know the transportation system runs like clockwork

[hallux]

19 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

85 isn't far off from my grandma's age

85 isn't far off from my dad's age (turns 81 during their next cruise, a TA on Princess from the Brooklyn terminal).  But he and my mom know better than to do this.  In fact, as much as he might not be an NCL fan, though he's never stepped foot on an NCL ship, he found no fault with what NCL did with the group in Africa...

[bookbabe]

28 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

It's just that many posters forget about empathy. Someone might be in the wrong. They may have made a silly decision. Heck, they could have made absolutely every wrong move in the book. 85 isn't far off from my grandma's age. I imagine her in this situation and how this could impact her. I don't think I'd need to tell her she was wrong. Perhaps I could make some suggestions as to what she could do next time...but bottom line, there are a lot of posters lacking empathy about various happenings on these here boards. And, I'll admit, sometimes I spout off before having half a brain to consider the human element. 

My mom is 80, and took her first solo cruise with Princess last fall.  She is NOT an experienced traveller, and can get lost on the way to her local Walmart, but has done one recent cruise (Alaska) with us and a couple of cruises with my dad decades ago before he passed.  The cruise was a Pacific Coastal, so easy ports.  She took the daily with her in both print and electronic form, and in the one port where she DIY’d, she made sure to be back on board an hour before all aboard time.  If she can figure it out, anyone can, especially people who are supposedly experienced travellers.  
 

Do I feel badly for that couple in the article?  Sure, anyone experiencing travel disruptions of whatever sort deserve kind thoughts.  That doesn’t change the facts of the situation, which is that their issue was created by their own actions or lack thereof.

 

However, if I was the family member on the ship, at least one of our party would be getting off with passports, meds, etc to stay with the elderly relatives and help them navigate their way to the next port.  Heck, someone would have been getting off to wait for them well before all aboard time when they weren’t back at the originally scheduled time.  Who abandons their parents or grandparents like that?  

[Asawi]

4 minutes ago, bookbabe said:

However, if I was the family member on the ship, at least one of our party would be getting off with passports, meds, etc to stay with the elderly relatives and help them navigate their way to the next port.  Heck, someone would have been getting off to wait for them well before all aboard time when they weren’t back at the originally scheduled time.  Who abandons their parents or grandparents like that?  

Agree! Unless the gangway was already pulled when the relative was notified, why on earth didn't they try to help more? Or did they? Didn't they miss the couple when all aboard came? That part is very unclear. 

I have lots of sympathy for the elderly couple and it's good to see that things seem to have worked out relatively well in the end.

[tsahall01]

Some blaring facts or nonfacts.  Who was the tour operator??  Why weren't they mentioned in the article??  Did the tour operater try contacting the ship when they knew they were late??  If not, why??  I find it odd that only 2 people missed the ship if they were on an independent tour, especially on a bus!! I use a LOT of independent tours.  They all guarantee on time arrival back to the ship, but we all know things happen.  The tour operaters that I use also say that they would get us to the next port at no charge to us (Viator, Spain Day Tours, Get your Guide, Italy Tours, EU all have this guarantee).  No tour operator wants to be known as the one that doesn't get you back on time and if they don't, get you to the next port--that's why the tour operator should be named!  Another point is why didn't the family know earlier that their elderly parents were not on board yet????  I would have been in panic mode trying to reach them or the tour operator.  Trying to garner sympathy for being elderly and without medicines and hearing aid batteries.  That just doesn't fly--how can they be responsible, seasoned travelers and not bring these along.  I never go anywhere (including the grocery store!) without backup hearing aid batteries--you never know when you might need one.  I also would not let elderly parents on a tour in a foreign country (ANY foreign country) by themselves--again, anything can happen and they might not know how to respond or act in that situation (stroke, heart attack, fall, etc).  Sorry--this is all on them and not NCL.  You have to be responsible and a responsible traveler--the cruise does not revolve around you.

[Two Wheels Only]

36 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

...but bottom line, there are a lot of posters lacking empathy about various happenings on these here boards.

 

You might mean "lacking sympathy...", not "lacking empathy...". 

 

If an adult is responsible, willing, and able enough to take an excursion (on their own) in a foreign country, that same adult is responsible, willing, and able to deal with the consequences of their actions. 

 

If the couple in this situation was 75, would that make a difference? How about 55? How about 25? I can't speak for others but my posts probably wouldn't change at all. If anything, the "experienced cruisers" should/would get less sympathy because they know better.

 

What would happen if NCL instituted a policy that anyone over a certain age cannot leave the ship unless on a ship's excursion? People would be up in arms. Posts stating that "age discrimination" is bad and that older people can "still do things..." would flood the forum. 

 

 

Just now, bookbabe said:

Do I feel badly for that couple in the article?  Sure, anyone experiencing travel disruptions of whatever sort deserve kind thoughts.  That doesn’t change the facts of the situation, which is that their issue was created by their own actions or lack thereof.

 

That's the point that many on the forum have made. These situations happen because of the decisions and actions taken before things go bad. 

[cruiseny4life]

10 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

You might mean "lacking sympathy...", not "lacking empathy...". 

 

If an adult is responsible, willing, and able enough to take an excursion (on their own) in a foreign country, that same adult is responsible, willing, and able to deal with the consequences of their actions. 

 

If the couple in this situation was 75, would that make a difference? How about 55? How about 25? I can't speak for others but my posts probably wouldn't change at all. If anything, the "experienced cruisers" should/would get less sympathy because they know better.

 

What would happen if NCL instituted a policy that anyone over a certain age cannot leave the ship unless on a ship's excursion? People would be up in arms. Posts stating that "age discrimination" is bad and that older people can "still do things..." would flood the forum. 

 

 

 

That's the point that many on the forum have made. These situations happen because of the decisions and actions taken before things go bad. 

Empathy is exactly what I intended to say. And empathy is what I wish others on these boards would have for those in bad situations, regardless of who is at fault. Nowhere did I say the consequences were unfair, unjust, etc. I don't think I actually provided my opinion on the circumstance being discussed.

 

Empathy

: the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another

Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/empathy

 

 

[Two Wheels Only]

18 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

Empathy is exactly what I intended to say. And empathy is what I wish others on these boards would have for those in bad situations, regardless of who is at fault.

 

I can't be empathetic towards a situation that I haven't experienced. I can't be empathetic towards a woman who experienced a painful pregnancy, either. I can be sympathetic, not empathetic.

 

"Sympathy is a feeling of sincere concern for someone who is experiencing something difficult or painful. Empathy involves actively sharing in the person’s emotional experience." - Merriam-Webster

 

[DCGuy64]

38 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

You might mean "lacking sympathy...", not "lacking empathy...". 

 

If an adult is responsible, willing, and able enough to take an excursion (on their own) in a foreign country, that same adult is responsible, willing, and able to deal with the consequences of their actions. 

 

If the couple in this situation was 75, would that make a difference? How about 55? How about 25? I can't speak for others but my posts probably wouldn't change at all. If anything, the "experienced cruisers" should/would get less sympathy because they know better.

 

What would happen if NCL instituted a policy that anyone over a certain age cannot leave the ship unless on a ship's excursion? People would be up in arms. Posts stating that "age discrimination" is bad and that older people can "still do things..." would flood the forum. 

 

 

 

That's the point that many on the forum have made. These situations happen because of the decisions and actions taken before things go bad. 

Exactly right. We all know those who are saying "oh, they're in their 80's, they didn't know any better" would be screaming age discrimination in case the cruise line took their advanced years into consideration. Classic case of trying to have it both ways...

[cruiseny4life]

12 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Exactly right. We all know those who are saying "oh, they're in their 80's, they didn't know any better" would be screaming age discrimination in case the cruise line took their advanced years into consideration. Classic case of trying to have it both ways...

No one has actually said this on the thread. 

 

16 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

I can't be empathetic towards a situation that I haven't experienced. I can't be empathetic towards a woman who experienced a painful pregnancy, either. I can be sympathetic, not empathetic.

 

"Sympathy is a feeling of sincere concern for someone who is experiencing something difficult or painful. Empathy involves actively sharing in the person’s emotional experience." - Merriam-Webster

 

So long as I live, it'll be empathy for me. Perhaps you'll be sympathetic. That's your take. It's not mine and I won't allow my words to be construed as sympathy. You sympathize til the sea gulls can't reach land, if you want (I know, I know...was gonna say til the cows come home, but trying to make it topical to cruising). That's your right, just as it's mine to be empathetic. 

[DCGuy64]

2 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

No one has actually said this on the thread. 

I didn't say anyone HAD. That's why I used the conditional "would be" in my post. 😉 Several posters HAVE suggested that the passengers' advanced age may have been a factor. And maybe it was.

[9tee2Sea]

I am not going to judge, but I have a story that sort of relates to this issue of the ship not waiting.

We were on a Panama Canal cruise earlier this year.  We were in one of the Mexican ports where my partner saw a gold chain he was wanting.  He told the shop keeper he will think about it, and come back later.  Well, we get back on the ship, 30 min before departure, my partner decided he wanted to go and get that chain.  It was in the gift shop area when you get off the ship.  I kept telling him it's too late, the ship will be be leaving in 30 min.  As you know, sometimes you just cant reason with someone that wants something.  I told him to grab his passport, phone and I will see you in the next port ( or back in Los Angeles) .  He ran to get the chain ( the person at the exit said you have 5-10 min before they pull up the walkway).  Well, he got the chain and got back on board.  He came into the cabin just as we were starting to pull away from the dock.  He said he was going to play a trick on me by waiting and having a drink at the bar first before coming back to the cabin, but then he said that would be too mean ( I am a worry wort).  He still has not worn that new chain he risked staying behind for.

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, tsahall01 said:

Some blaring facts or nonfacts.  Who was the tour operator??  Why weren't they mentioned in the article??  Did the tour operater try contacting the ship when they knew they were late??  If not, why??  I find it odd that only 2 people missed the ship if they were on an independent tour, especially on a bus!! I use a LOT of independent tours.  They all guarantee on time arrival back to the ship, but we all know things happen.  The tour operaters that I use also say that they would get us to the next port at no charge to us (Viator, Spain Day Tours, Get your Guide, Italy Tours, EU all have this guarantee).  No tour operator wants to be known as the one that doesn't get you back on time and if they don't, get you to the next port--that's why the tour operator should be named!  

Very good questions.  One wonders if they were on a 'tour' or if they were just taking a public bus to where ever they wanted.  That would answer many of your questions.  

[Jordan61]

I think I would have a lot more empathy/sympathy/whatever if the people and families of people who got left behind didn't go running to news outlets to complain about being abandoned.

[KeithJenner]

5 hours ago, KeithJenner said:

We were late leaving Lisbon because the port were so slow in checking passports before letting people into the terminal building and then getting the luggage onboard. I didn’t notice us being particularly late to leave either Gibraltar or Cádiz. Of course, if they have been on 30 cruises then they shouldn’t have needed those two ports to know that ships don’t always leave on time.

 

The strangest bit of the story for me is their bus getting caught up for an hour due to the weather. If it was any sort of excursion bus then why were they the only ones to miss the ship. In addition I have talked to a few people who went into Granada and nobody has mentioned anything about any weather problems.

 

Not saying they are lying, but it doesnt quite tie in with what I have seen or heard. It could also be inaccurate reporting by the journalist.

A little update. We were talking to someone today who was in Granada and did experience the rain. However they couldn’t see any reason why it would have delayed anything. Their bus left during the storm and there was no problem.

[smilegirl07]

On 5/1/2024 at 12:35 PM, julig22 said:

At one Q&A session (after we'd had pier runners the previous day), the captain explained how it works - at least how he handles it. First and foremost, CONTACT THE SHIP!  Which means contact the Port Agent. If they know you are late they will advise you on what to do. If they don't know why you aren't onboard they will most likely leave without waiting.  But it also depends on the port. Sometimes they just can't wait - there may be other ships waiting for the dock and/or channel, changing tides, or an already short time to make it to the next port.  And there are reasons that all aboard is 30 minutes prior to sail time. They have manifests to complete, gangways to disengage, etc.

 

As to contacting your friends 15 minutes after all-board time- maybe, maybe not. Once they knew they were going to be delayed, they should have called, even if they thought they still might make it to the ship on time.

 

 

what is the best way to get the contact info of the port agent/ship?  I can't believe that I am asking this after 20+ cruises.....  Thank you in advance!

[shof515]

11 minutes ago, smilegirl07 said:

 

 

what is the best way to get the contact info of the port agent/ship?  I can't believe that I am asking this after 20+ cruises.....  Thank you in advance!

 

it is in the freestyle daily paper

[debenson0723]

1 hour ago, smilegirl07 said:

 

 

what is the best way to get the contact info of the port agent/ship?  I can't believe that I am asking this after 20+ cruises.....  Thank you in advance!

It's on the front page of the Freestyle daily, typically in the bottom left side corner. Look at any of the dailies posted on this board and you will see it.

[KeithJenner]

5 hours ago, smilegirl07 said:

 

 

what is the best way to get the contact info of the port agent/ship?  I can't believe that I am asking this after 20+ cruises.....  Thank you in advance!

Here’s an example from todays daily.

[bluesea777]

14 hours ago, shof515 said:

 

it is in the freestyle daily paper

 

Yes, and this is the first person to call if .....

[Jagggg]

On 5/1/2024 at 12:08 PM, bluesea777 said:

Sorry to say .... if the couple say they're experienced cruisers/travellers with 30 cruises under their belt, it seems they need to learn a very important lesson .... take their Freestyle Daily with them or at least take a photo of the Port Agent Information section of the first page of the Daily. This is the first person to contact if you're running late as this person knows who to contact on the ship. And this person would stay on dock to meet with late arrivals and offer assistance where needed.

 

In this case, according to the news report the couple got back to the dock and looked around and there were noone there.

 

 

Great advice about taking a photo of the Port Agent Information. Never have done this, but sure will now. 

[luckybecky]

13 hours ago, KeithJenner said:

Here’s an example from todays daily.

 

I always take a photo exactly like this so I'll have the info with me if needed.

 

On another note: youtube channel Let's Go Travel Tips is reporting that the couple that missed the ship in Spain is the SAME elderly couple that missed an NCL ship a month or so ago in Africa (along with several others). I'm not sure where she got her information. Has anyone else heard this? Or can confirm?

[PartyPlannerLady]

On 5/1/2024 at 12:40 PM, UKstages said:

this one is a little different, in my opinion.

 

yeah, they booked an independent excursion. mea maxima culpa.

 

but, here, i would side with the couple. they notified the ship they were running late and indeed they arrived very shortly after scheduled departure. if i read it correctly, just ten minutes.

 

After is the key word in your post.

[PartyPlannerLady]

On 5/1/2024 at 1:35 PM, julig22 said:

At one Q&A session (after we'd had pier runners the previous day), the captain explained how it works - at least how he handles it. First and foremost, CONTACT THE SHIP!  Which means contact the Port Agent. If they know you are late they will advise you on what to do. If they don't know why you aren't onboard they will most likely leave without waiting.  But it also depends on the port. Sometimes they just can't wait - there may be other ships waiting for the dock and/or channel, changing tides, or an already short time to make it to the next port.  And there are reasons that all aboard is 30 minutes prior to sail time. They have manifests to complete, gangways to disengage, etc.

 

As to contacting your friends 15 minutes after all-board time- maybe, maybe not. Once they knew they were going to be delayed, they should have called, even if they thought they still might make it to the ship on time.

 

Just doing it first is not good enough? 🙂