Current Norovirus on some P&O ships

[ovccruiser]

The main obvious question we are all asked before going on a cruise, have you been ill in the last week or so and everyone answers no, they don't want to miss their holiday. 

 

Some of the suggestions while they seem excellent, has a cost implication for P & O which I am sure they would gladly pass on. Single use condiments is expensive compared to a condiment set on the table. Also, who would clear all the empty sachets after use. 

 

I have cruised many times but have only once experienced norovirus on one cruise. It was not too pleasant and I was confined to my cabin, my wife, however, was not and that I could not understand.

[CountryStyleMe]

no offence meant here but NHS Hand Hygiene Website states and I quote "when experiencing diarrhoea and/or vomiting, or visiting a patient with these symptoms".

 

(this would include during symptoms of Norovirus, Gastrointestinal illness or Food Poisoning).  https://www.wwl.nhs.uk/media/.leaflets/64ad30111c7bb8.09150640.pdf 

 

plus alcohol hand gels only protect your hands and skin for a total of two minutes. 

 

 

[9265359]

2 hours ago, Adawn47 said:

They will still be moving around the ship touching other surfaces. This is sadly a 'catch 22' situation, which is why I keep coming back to personal hygiene.

 

To be pedantic, it isn't a 'catch 22' situation as that is an impossible situation where you cannot do one thing until you do another thing, but you cannot do the second thing until you do the first thing.

 

For it to be a 'catch 22' situation P&O would be prevented from putting out the hand gel dispensers until thy had put in place additional protective measures to counter the risk caused by those that don't use the hand gel dispensers, and in addition P&O would be prevented from putting in place those additional protective measures until they had put out hand gel dispensers.

 

Obviously putting out the hand gel dispensers is entirely independent of the additional protective measures, and the additional protective measures are entirely independent of the hand gel dispensers, so it is nothing like a 'catch 22' situation.

 

A good risk prevention strategy relies on many layers of prevention, and if P&O stopped relying on the single layer of prevention of hand gel dispensers and introduced good and effective secondary measures then the risk created by those who avoid the gel dispensers would be minimised.

 

 

[nosapphire]

What's the betting that those who avoid the hand-washing stations (including those who simply wiggle 2 fingertips under the tap as a token gesture) would, if they went down with any form of gastro-enteritis, be the first ones off to the tabloids to tell of their "cruise from hell" experience.

Noro and similar are so common, have been common for years, and places where people are in close proximity for extended periods (such as cruise ships) are perfect breeding grounds.

It is sad/annoying/inexplicable (take your pick) that otherwise sensible, educated adults have to be constantly reminded about basic hygene when using shared facilities.

 

 

[Breezy5631]

We haven’t seen a single table cleaned with anything other than a dry cloth in Horizon so far this cruise on Arvia. The tables are filthy. 
 

In fact when we got on yesterday and went for a late lunch in Horizon there were cornflakes still underneath the table from breakfast on the previous cruise, so I’m not quite sure what they did during the extra 3 hours for “deep cleaning”
 

If they want the passengers to take sanitation seriously then they need to take it seriously themselves and lead by example. 

[Snow Hill]

1 hour ago, Breezy5631 said:

We haven’t seen a single table cleaned with anything other than a dry cloth in Horizon so far this cruise on Arvia. The tables are filthy. 
 

In fact when we got on yesterday and went for a late lunch in Horizon there were cornflakes still underneath the table from breakfast on the previous cruise, so I’m not quite sure what they did during the extra 3 hours for “deep cleaning”
 

If they want the passengers to take sanitation seriously then they need to take it seriously themselves and lead by example. 

It’s not really deep cleaning it’s a bit of extra cleaning being done in the 3 hours, a true deep cleaning would mean disembarking everyone from the ship and using multiple techniques to attempt to remove the virus, that would take more than 3 hours.

 

A primary school I was governor of, was closed for 2 school days plus a weekend after a large number of pupils and staff went down with what was said to be Norovirus. If it took four days to deep clean a school how long would it take to properly deep clean a cruise ship the size of Arvia? 

[Adawn47]

15 hours ago, 9265359 said:

To be pedantic, it isn't a 'catch 22' situation as that is an impossible situation where you cannot do one thing until you do another thing, but you cannot do the second thing until you do the first thing.

As a well educated person I was well aware that that phrase wasn't totally correct, but was the only thing I could come up with on the spur of the moment to try to explain my thoughts on this topic. I'm sure you understood what I was trying to say. 

So yes, on this point I entirely agree with you.

You were being pedantic.

Avril

[kalos]

My Mrs uses "other" forms of media forum and informed me that a lady posted ..

"We have set sail on Ventura and the captain has said that the infection  levels 

are still high and above what is normal for the ship "

 

Hope these levels fall for all that are onboard now.

[9265359]

I thought this was interesting from the NHS given the opprobrium directed to the hand gel dodgers - 

 

Norovirus (vomiting bug) - NHS (www.nhs.uk)

 

Washing your hands frequently with soap and water is the best way to stop it spreading. Alcohol hand gels do not kill norovirus.

 

Also note the 'frequently' in the washing with soap and water as washing doesn't kill norovirus unless the temperature of the water is above 60c, which is hot enough to scald your hands.

 

Effective washing for at least 20 seconds will remove the virus, but a splash under the tap won't.

 

If you want to kill norovirus then you need to use bleach, and that's where the crew comes in with lots and lots of cleaning of surfaces, which as it can live on those surfaces for up to four weeks, then it can certainly last between two customers pulling up a chair to sit down unless it has been wiped down.

 

[Snow Hill]

6 hours ago, 9265359 said:

I thought this was interesting from the NHS given the opprobrium directed to the hand gel dodgers - 

 

Norovirus (vomiting bug) - NHS (www.nhs.uk)

 

Washing your hands frequently with soap and water is the best way to stop it spreading. Alcohol hand gels do not kill norovirus.

 

Also note the 'frequently' in the washing with soap and water as washing doesn't kill norovirus unless the temperature of the water is above 60c, which is hot enough to scald your hands.

 

Effective washing for at least 20 seconds will remove the virus, but a splash under the tap won't.

 

If you want to kill norovirus then you need to use bleach, and that's where the crew comes in with lots and lots of cleaning of surfaces, which as it can live on those surfaces for up to four weeks, then it can certainly last between two customers pulling up a chair to sit down unless it has been wiped down.

 

Bet they don’t spray bleach on carpets, curtains and soft fabrics on which it can also survive for up to 2 weeks.

[Francisdrake]

On 6/10/2024 at 2:09 PM, ovccruiser said:

The main obvious question we are all asked before going on a cruise, have you been ill in the last week or so and everyone answers no, they don't want to miss their holiday. 

 

Some of the suggestions while they seem excellent, has a cost implication for P & O which I am sure they would gladly pass on. Single use condiments is expensive compared to a condiment set on the table. Also, who would clear all the empty sachets after use. 

 

I have cruised many times but have only once experienced norovirus on one cruise. It was not too pleasant and I was confined to my cabin, my wife, however, was not and that I could not understand.

 

I've just got off Ventura today & at no point on embarking did anyone ask about whether we'd been ill or not, literally just scanned the passport & took photo for the cruise card.         

With regard to the restrictions in general that i saw they never opened up self service in the buffet, drink stations & pizza/ice cream/burger stations on deck 15 despite on embarking the cruise saying they were looking to open it up within 72 hours (I'm presuming there must have been some cases come to light on board again which put paid to this)     

Additionally to the restrictions in the food areas the cabin stewards had industrial spray guns (like a backpack they were wearing) which they used to disinfect surfaces on an afternoon in the cabins & corridors several times over the 10 day period. 

Didn't have they were confirmed as precautions for Norovirus but they didn't have the usual meet the Captain function they have on one of the formal nights (instead everyone got a drink voucher to claim a drink from the bar)   & additionally the cocktail party for Mediterranean loyalty members never happened either (instead they got a voucher for a free drink to be used on a specific night)

[majortom10]

1 hour ago, Francisdrake said:

 

I've just got off Ventura today & at no point on embarking did anyone ask about whether we'd been ill or not, literally just scanned the passport & took photo for the cruise card.         

They haven't asked for a long while, or filling in the form that you use to do, because they realised it was a pointless exercise who  is going to admit it if they had symptoms knowing they would be refused boarding.

[Bin man]

We were asked at checkin in on Arvia last weeks cruise but as you say it is a bit pointless

as we all wouldn't want to be denied boarding 

[jeanlyon]

All these comments about coughing and sneezing make me laugh.  I tend to cough in the morning when I've had coffee with milk in it and I often have sneezing fits, possibly 12 sneezes at any one time.  I am not ill, don't have a virus.   I also suffer sometimes with severe IBS with its obvious symptoms.   Ships often cause coughs simply due to the aircon.  You can't accuse everyone of having a virus because of these things.  As for the handgel, often a complete waste.  It's useless for noro and lasts no time at all.

[seahorse001]

On 6/9/2024 at 2:22 PM, kevboy said:

I know what I say will be controversial, nevertheless, it needs to be said. I cannot fault most of the measures P&O have in place or their efforts to contain outbreaks.  Two very simple steps that should be taken are ; confine all affected cabin passengers and not just the the infected person and remove Salt and pepper pots  from dining tables in MDR. They have done this in the buffet but for some reason allow potential contamination to remain on tables in MDR. However we need to question our own behaviour as a cause of the spread.I have recently come off Ventura 11- 25th May and the behaviour of some passengers was unbelievable. I experienced a passenger suffering sickness and diarrhoea who was telling people he only had a touch of food poisoning and wasn`t telling anyone because he would get unnecessarily confined. it never occurred to him that he had the virus.( or maybe it did! ) Another diagnosed person had been to the buffet for a take away and was hurrying back to her cabin before she received her check up call from medical staff. A woman asking another passenger if she had any sore throat tablets,men in toilets not even washing their hands. Passengers who cough or sneeze into their hands than just carry on without taking any more steps. I could go on and on but of course we are all aware of these causes of spread. Most caring cruisers take great care both for their own health`s sake and that of other passengers. It is those that don`t care that cause the problem. It only takes a few and spread can be very quick. There is a misconception that steering clear of others if you are infected will limit the spread. This is is a very false premise because infection is spread mainly by touch from surfaces already infected.There are very many Anti Vac stations all around the ship yet most passengers only use them when entering eateries - where they are supervised. We, the cruisers who look so forward to our cruises could and should do so much more to help with the fight against Norovirus instead of just leaving it up to the cruise lines. If we all played our part with diligence the problem would very quickly be resolved.  I will read replies with interest. 

Hi Jean

I echo all your thoughts re hygiene 

My experience on Arvia & Iona re other cruisers hygiene has to be seen to be believed. Very very few washed their hands before entering any dining venue & I witnessed a few ladies not washing hands in toilets also. 

Touch wood no sickness etc when I was on board but ...

[Breezy5631]

I would assume everything is back to normal levels on Arvia as all of the portable sanitisers have been removed today and no more being prompted to wash hands or sanitise when entering the buffet. 

[yorkshirephil]

9 minutes ago, Breezy5631 said:

I would assume everything is back to normal levels on Arvia as all of the portable sanitisers have been removed today and no more being prompted to wash hands or sanitise when entering the buffet. 

Maybe it wont be back to normal for long. Why be proactive when you can be reactive.

[majortom10]

40 minutes ago, Breezy5631 said:

I would assume everything is back to normal levels on Arvia as all of the portable sanitisers have been removed today and no more being prompted to wash hands or sanitise when entering the buffet. 

Unfortunately people should not have to be prompted to wash hands or sanatiser their hands. I am afraid some people's hygiene habits are awful and NV will be a recurring problem on all cruise ships.

Edited June 15 by majortom10

[kalos]

Going back to the pandemic ,as you entered our hospital folk could not get 

enough of the hand gels . 

Now days folk just walk past them just like they do on the cruise ships, once 

they think it's all ok . They are put there for more than Noro but apart from 

those with an allergy reaction , I see no reason not to use them .

As folk have posted above ,some are happy to walk out the loo's without 

washing their hands .

Even hospitals can have Noro but does that mean we should ignore the hand

gels. They are there for a reason.

[snaefell]

Since Covid 'stopped being a problem' many hand gel dispensers we see,including in hospitals,we are seeing too much of them now we are not so young!,tend to be empty so the problem isn't helped in that respect.

Can't help feeling that the gels in the dispensers that are working are not what they used to be,I remember when they first appeared if you had a cut on your hands anywhere you really felt the sting when the gel 'found' it,that rarely seems to happen these days IME!😁😁

[Josy1953]

I don't remember seeing hand gels at the entrance to shops or even hospitals and surgeries pre-covid and I think that for a lot of people everything has gone back to what was their normal.

For those of us who want to continue using it there is plenty available to buy. I still carry a small bottle of gel and masks in my bag to use when necessary because I believe that I am responsible for my own well-being.

[Snow Hill]

2 hours ago, snaefell said:

Since Covid 'stopped being a problem' many hand gel dispensers we see,including in hospitals,we are seeing too much of them now we are not so young!,tend to be empty so the problem isn't helped in that respect.

Can't help feeling that the gels in the dispensers that are working are not what they used to be,I remember when they first appeared if you had a cut on your hands anywhere you really felt the sting when the gel 'found' it,that rarely seems to happen these days IME!😁😁

I did the other day when I used the one at the dentists. Stung like hell, it was just a “paper cut” 

[9265359]

3 hours ago, kalos said:

Going back to the pandemic ,as you entered our hospital folk could not get 

enough of the hand gels . 

Now days folk just walk past them just like they do on the cruise ships, once 

they think it's all ok . They are put there for more than Noro but apart from 

those with an allergy reaction , I see no reason not to use them .

As folk have posted above ,some are happy to walk out the loo's without 

washing their hands .

Even hospitals can have Noro but does that mean we should ignore the hand

gels. They are there for a reason.

 

Alcohol hand gels are effective against some viruses such as during the pandemic, but they are completely ineffective against norovirus.

 

Norovirus (vomiting bug) - NHS (www.nhs.uk)

 

"Washing your hands frequently with soap and water is the best way to stop it spreading. Alcohol hand gels do not kill norovirus."

 

That someone isn't using the alcohol hand gel is irrelevant to the spread of norovirus.

 

What is relevant is whether they have washed their hands properly immediately beforehand, not an hour ago, and even then that doesn't kill the virus unless you have the water at a temperature which would scald you, all it does is temporarily remove the virus from your hands.

 

The most important issue is whether the staff have cleaned all the touchable surfaces with bleach after the last occupants have left, as bleach will kill norovirus.

 

 

 

Edited June 15 by 9265359

[kalos]

1 minute ago, 9265359 said:

 

Alcohol hand gels are effective against some viruses such as during the pandemic, but they are completely ineffective against norovirus.

 

Norovirus (vomiting bug) - NHS (www.nhs.uk)

 

"Washing your hands frequently with soap and water is the best way to stop it spreading. Alcohol hand gels do not kill norovirus."

 

That someone isn't using the alcohol hand gel is irrelevant to the spread of norovirus.

 

What is relevant is whether they have washed their hands properly immediately beforehand, not an hour ago, and whether the staff have cleaned all the touchable surfaces with bleach after the last occupants have left.

 

 

Yes we established that and we buy a foam from Boots that does work against noro

but I will still use the Gels that are for other viruses .As stated we are all responsible

for our own actions .

Some could argue we are responsible for the potential spread of the viruses etc if we

do not play our part .

We continue to wash our hands and gel when possible and just hope others do as well.

 

[9265359]

15 hours ago, kalos said:

Yes we established that and we buy a foam from Boots that does work against noro

 

Does it work against norovirus?

 

I noticed that their advertising (Boots Anti Viral Hand Foam - 50ml - Boots) now makes no mention of it and only makes the claim that it "kills 99.99% of enveloped viruses and harmful bacteria" which as norovirus is not an enveloped virus isn't exactly helpful.

 

What will kill norovirus is Hypochlorous Acid (HOCL) but this product doesn't contain any of that.

 

15 hours ago, kalos said:

We continue to wash our hands and gel when possible and just hope others do as well

 

Likewise, but I would actually like the ire that people have those not using the gel instead directed at ship's management for not ensuring that effective cleaning with bleach is taking place as that would have an impact on reducing the transmission of norovirus.