Potential Longshoreman Strike - Impact to Cruise Ships?

[LetItSnow]

The longshoremen union is threatening a strike at US East and Gulf coast ports starting October 1.  It will impact supply chains for sure but I haven't been able to confirm if it affects cruise ships.  Does anyone know?  Are the people loading our ships with supplies, luggage, fuel, etc. part of the longshoreman union?

 

I leave out of FLL in November and would hate to see the sailing canceled.

 

[BklynBoy8]

Heard from a NYHarbor longshore friend. It will impact and cripple if it happens. He works NY, NJ piers.

 

Sounds like anything floats.

 

Hope for early settlement.

 

 

[princeton123211]

1 hour ago, LetItSnow said:

It will impact supply chains for sure but I haven't been able to confirm if it affects cruise ships.  Does anyone know?

It does and it doesn't-- these things are mainly aimed at cargo and container ships. Sometimes when these happen there are carveouts for passenger ships and they are unaffected.

 

I do remember decades ago a strike while we were boarding QE2 in New York and it did affect luggage and loading stores onboard and the boarding process was a total disaster-- took hours and we didn't depart until after midnight when it should have been 4pm. All the ships staff took over longshoreman duties so when you finally did get onboard it was hopelessly understaffed and your luggage didn't show up until nearly the next morning. And this was on a ship that is vastly smaller than most of what sails today. 

 

So basically lets hope they mediate to a quick settlement or else your day will look like one of the two I describe above. 

[BklynBoy8]

4 minutes ago, princeton123211 said:

It does and it doesn't-- these things are mainly aimed at cargo and container ships. Sometimes when these happen there are carveouts for passenger ships and they are unaffected.

 

I do remember decades ago a strike while we were boarding QE2 in New York and it did affect luggage and loading stores onboard and the boarding process was a total disaster-- took hours and we didn't depart until after midnight when it should have been 4pm. All the ships staff took over longshoreman duties so when you finally did get onboard it was hopelessly understaffed and your luggage didn't show up until nearly the next morning. And this was on a ship that is vastly smaller than most of what sails today. 

 

So basically lets hope they mediate to a quick settlement or else your day will look like one of the two I describe above. 

 

 

Their intention is make a point.

 

My brother was a custom inspector then and remembered it well.

 

He had to sleep on the pier, long hours. The harbor was darted with dozens of ships.

[Got2Cruise]

Wow. First I’m hearing about this as a NYer. 🙏that it’s settled.

 

It will be crippling not only for cruise industry but anything coming into the Port of NY for distribution. 
 

On top of that, there probably be picket lines you’d have to cross. 

[BklynBoy8]

42 minutes ago, Got2Cruise said:

Wow. First I’m hearing about this as a NYer. 🙏that it’s settled.

 

It will be crippling not only for cruise industry but anything coming into the Port of NY for distribution. 
 

On top of that, there probably be picket lines you’d have to cross. 

 

Even though there is a lot in the city/country before Christmas delivered, the further deliveries are yet to come before the Holidays to the stores.

 

 

 

 

[lx200gps]

14 hours ago, princeton123211 said:

It does and it doesn't-- these things are mainly aimed at cargo and container ships. Sometimes when these happen there are carveouts for passenger ships and they are unaffected.

 

I do remember decades ago a strike while we were boarding QE2 in New York and it did affect luggage and loading stores onboard and the boarding process was a total disaster-- took hours and we didn't depart until after midnight when it should have been 4pm. All the ships staff took over longshoreman duties so when you finally did get onboard it was hopelessly understaffed and your luggage didn't show up until nearly the next morning. And this was on a ship that is vastly smaller than most of what sails today. 

 

So basically lets hope they mediate to a quick settlement or else your day will look like one of the two I describe above. 

In this day and age i would be surprised if that was allowed to happen. I would think that the union(s) will not allow ANYONE to perform "their" duties and would cause massive disruptions through picketing. Baggage could not be loaded, truck drivers bringing supplies to the ships will honor picket lines etc. Fingers crossed they get this sorted out as we sail on the Sun in mid-October out of Port Everglades

[BklynBoy8]

As mentioned, our friend who is a longshoreman put in unbelievable hours and the load he has to handle. 

 

Don't know if Cruise ships or Cargo, which are easier? According to him, handling cruise is no different.

 

Feel sorry when he comes home. And the danger of handling cargo and tie down cable that can cut u in half.

 

So they want protection overall. And weather conditions aren't even talked about.

 

So I hope negotiations are favorable for All.

[Got2Cruise]

16 hours ago, BklynBoy8 said:

 

Even though there is a lot in the city/country before Christmas delivered, the further deliveries are yet to come before the Holidays to the stores.

 

 

 

 

We can see all the container ships lined up all the way across the Long Island barrier beaches waiting for their turn to enter the port all year long. 

[BklynBoy8]

54 minutes ago, Got2Cruise said:

We can see all the container ships lined up all the way across the Long Island barrier beaches waiting for their turn to enter the port all year long. 

 

The point I was trying to make was a lot of Product is already delivered. But remaining products to be displayed and sold maybe still containerized and not delivered to vendors.

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, BklynBoy8 said:

Don't know if Cruise ships or Cargo, which are easier? According to him, handling cruise is no different.

Working cruise ships requires just a few hours for the longshoremen, but they still get paid for a full shift, and the work is mainly tossing bags around and driving forklifts, not handling containers or break bulk cargo (if any is still carried).  This is why it is the choice assignment for senior longshoremen.

 

3 hours ago, BklynBoy8 said:

And the danger of handling cargo and tie down cable that can cut u in half.

Frankly, haven't seen any tie down cables in the last 3 decades.  Most of it is now solid rod rigging, and many ships don't use anything to tie the containers down but twitlocks and bridging clamps.

 

21 minutes ago, BklynBoy8 said:

The point I was trying to make was a lot of Product is already delivered.

For the last few decades, businesses around the world have depended on "just in time inventory", where they don't stock items ahead of anticipated sales, as this ties up money on the shelf.  This has been exasperated by Covid, and that is why you see holes in supermarket shelves, and other "out of stock" or low inventory items in store in general.  The 2022 longshore "slow down", while not a strike, did congest the ports and cause a lot of inflation from missing inventory on the store shelves.

[BklynBoy8]

17 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Working cruise ships requires just a few hours for the longshoremen, but they still get paid for a full shift, and the work is mainly tossing bags around and driving forklifts, not handling containers or break bulk cargo (if any is still carried).  This is why it is the choice assignment for senior longshoremen.

 

Frankly, haven't seen any tie down cables in the last 3 decades.  Most of it is now solid rod rigging, and many ships don't use anything to tie the containers down but twitlocks and bridging clamps.

 

For the last few decades, businesses around the world have depended on "just in time inventory", where they don't stock items ahead of anticipated sales, as this ties up money on the shelf.  This has been exasperated by Covid, and that is why you see holes in supermarket shelves, and other "out of stock" or low inventory items in store in general.  The 2022 longshore "slow down", while not a strike, did congest the ports and cause a lot of inflation from missing inventory on the store shelves.

 

We all gather information from various sources...........but thank you....

Edited Tuesday at 08:55 PM by BklynBoy8

[njhorseman]

59 minutes ago, BklynBoy8 said:

 

We all gather information from various sources...........but thank you....

Yes, but @chengkp75 spent over 40 years at sea as a senior ship's officer, so his knowledge comes from decades of first hand professional experience, not what he reads in the newspapers and not from conversations with others .

[3rdGenCunarder]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Working cruise ships requires just a few hours for the longshoremen, but they still get paid for a full shift, and the work is mainly tossing bags around and driving forklifts, not handling containers or break bulk cargo (if any is still carried).  This is why it is the choice assignment for senior longshoremen.

 

There's a lot of what I think of as "small" work loading a cruise ship--luggage crates, food pallets, etc. But how much work do longshoreman do with so much cargo transported in containers? I remember a tour of Elizabethport many years ago. Container after container, off the ship and onto a truck. I started counting seconds. Average was 45 seconds from the crane lifting the container to setting it on the truck. Obviously, there's a crane operator, but how much work had to be done on deck and on the ground?

[BklynBoy8]

1 hour ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

There's a lot of what I think of as "small" work loading a cruise ship--luggage crates, food pallets, etc. But how much work do longshoreman do with so much cargo transported in containers? I remember a tour of Elizabethport many years ago. Container after container, off the ship and onto a truck. I started counting seconds. Average was 45 seconds from the crane lifting the container to setting it on the truck. Obviously, there's a crane operator, but how much work had to be done on deck and on the ground?

 

We had a cabin on the port side on Mary 2 on the NE/CAN and watched for quite some time the work opposite the cabin in Boston.

 

Watching the work no less noise of work of moving those containers from position on ship, crane, moving, dropping on hidden truck and on it's way. 45 seconds is about right. Even faster almost seemed.

 

And thosing helping at the BCT taking our luggage on the last several sailing were not seniors but young Longshoremen at curbside.

 

So being biase and supporting my friend, he does and they do pull their weight on their job..

 

BTW.... he hopes too the job action doesn't take place. Really no body wins.

[chengkp75]

8 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

But how much work do longshoreman do with so much cargo transported in containers?

Those ships that use rod rigging to secure the containers, these are 12-16' long 1" diameter steel rods.  Imagine a 50 lb dumbbell that is 15 feet long, and you have to snag the knob on the upper end into the socket in the corner of the container, while balancing on two steel castings about 6" square, maybe a couple of feet above the deck.  Then, there are the twistlocks, where you take another 12 foot steel pole, about half the weight of the rigging rod, and have to engage the locking lever of the twistlock and knock it to the unlocked position (90* turn).  And there are 4 twistlocks per container.  Then someone has to get on top of the container stack to remove the unlocked twistlocks.  At the top of the container stacks, there will also be bridge fittings, that are threaded clamps to hold adjacent containers together, that have to be loosened and removed before the containers can move.  Then, as you reload the ship, you do all the above in the reverse order.  I am not saying that a longshoreman's job is easy, and it certainly is dangerous when working cargo.  And, unless there is lightning threat (which can strike the cranes), they will work in all weather conditions.

 

For each crane moving containers on/off a ship, there is a "hatch gang" of 3-4 working on the deck of the ship.  Add in the guys who lock the container on the truck chassis, the recorders noting container numbers and customs seals, and the "straddle picker" drivers who take the containers off the trucks in the dock area and stack them for future movement, and that is what a container ship cargo operation looks like.

 

Even with all of the interlocking devices and tie down rigging, an average of 1500+ containers were lost at sea every year over the last 15 years (23 lost out of every million containers shipped).

[Jaxx117]

I remember a cruise where we were denied docking due to a strike in Guatemala back in the day. Just sat there for a few hours then departed.

[BklynBoy8]

10 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

There's a lot of what I think of as "small" work loading a cruise ship--luggage crates, food pallets, etc. But how much work do longshoreman do with so much cargo transported in containers? I remember a tour of Elizabethport many years ago. Container after container, off the ship and onto a truck. I started counting seconds. Average was 45 seconds from the crane lifting the container to setting it on the truck. Obviously, there's a crane operator, but how much work had to be done on deck and on the ground?

 

Kathy,

Looking forward to observing pier op's on the next trip. 

 

Have a good day!

[LetItSnow]

There are two threads going on this topic now.  In the other one, this post has a link to the ports that may be impacted.

 

 

[Tampa Girl]

3 hours ago, Jaxx117 said:

I remember a cruise where we were denied docking due to a strike in Guatemala back in the day. Just sat there for a few hours then departed.

 

Last November Portugal's ship workers (not sure which ones) were on strike, and alL Portugese ports were closed to the cruise ships.  

[chengkp75]

12 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

Last November Portugal's ship workers (not sure which ones) were on strike, and alL Portugese ports were closed to the cruise ships.  

That was the harbor pilots.

 

[Jaxx117]

57 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

Last November Portugal's ship workers (not sure which ones) were on strike, and alL Portugese ports were closed to the cruise ships.  

Yes and remember this ship was also delayed delivery due to a strike as well.

[IrieBajan54]

On 9/18/2024 at 6:31 AM, Jaxx117 said:

I remember a cruise where we were denied docking due to a strike in Guatemala back in the day. Just sat there for a few hours then departed.

I recall something similar in Chile back I believe in 2018. We were supposed to board in Valparaiso but due to a strike, the ship diverted to San Antonio. I had to take a bus from Santiago to San Antonio and everything went smoothly from there.

 

I'm on a TA starting in two weeks and we're to disembark in Galveston. Glad it's a westbound crossing and hopefully the strike, if it happens, will be settled before we arrive.

Edited Thursday at 09:13 PM by IrieBajan54
correction

[LetItSnow]

The Travel Scouts YouTube channel just reported on this (and even shows our Cruise Critic thread).  He provides a lot more insight plus a reference to a news report that cruise ships will not be affected.