Too Many Chiefs?

[springaussie]

Is it just me or do others also think that Royal Caribbean has too many supervisors.

The ships seem to be littered with white shirts. Windjammer, Main Dining Room, The Promenade, Pool Decks etc. Everywhere you look supervisors in one role or another.

[Yorkvillain]

Wow.

[negc]

Didn't realize that this was such a major issue:rolleyes: (don't even consider it to be a minor issue LOL Apparently someone needs a cruise very badly if this is uppermost in his mind. ;)

[CAT GIRL]

To run an operation that big you need a lot of different departments.

And within each department you will have a hierarchy. Seems like

it's a pretty good system to me.

 

Edited to say: Can you tell I work in management?

Edited December 22, 2013 by CAT GIRL

[wwcruisers]

Hmm.... :rolleyes:

And OP, if you had experienced a problem in any of those venues, and there had been no supervisor to deal with it, what then would your complaint have been? ;)

Edited December 22, 2013 by wwcruisers

[Langley Cruisers]

Yeah, I've seen a lot of threads over the years and this one has me puzzled...

 

Anyway OP, the "white shirts" you are seeing are often officers and that is their uniform. Frankly, I'm glad they are so visible and available to passengers should something come up.

[Paulxyz2004]

Is it just me or do others also think that Royal Caribbean has too many supervisors.

The ships seem to be littered with white shirts. Windjammer, Main Dining Room, The Promenade, Pool Decks etc. Everywhere you look supervisors in one role or another.

 

My vote goes to it´s just you.

[chengkp75]

Yeah, I've seen a lot of threads over the years and this one has me puzzled...

 

Anyway OP, the "white shirts" you are seeing are often officers and that is their uniform. Frankly, I'm glad they are so visible and available to passengers should something come up.

 

Just to put some perspective here. Most of those you see in whites with stripes on their shoulders are not officers, but hotel supervisors. Only licensed deck and engine officers are ship's officers. In the old days, they were the only ones to be seen with stripes, and were given a stipend to use to entertain guests (buying drinks, etc). With new IMO regulations regarding allowable blood alcohol for ship's officers, the stipends disappeared, and the officers no longer had an incentive to spend their off duty time with the guests. The passengers complained that officers were no longer visible, so the cruise lines decided to put the hotel supervisors in uniform with rank stripes like the ship's officers. Then, the stripes became the method of providing "perks" to the supervisors, and to maintain costs, the lines tend to give out stripes, with the attendant onboard perks, rather than raises in salary.

 

So the trend towards more supervisors in visible whites is increasing, and as others have posted, why is this a problem? Crew ratio to passengers has not gone up, they are just making staff more visible. Are these supervisors interfering with your enjoyment of the various venues? Are they crowding together to block access, or ignoring guest requests? Not sure what the complaint/observation is about.

 

Generally, the only true ship's officers will not have the silver or white between their gold stripes, and will have devices on their shoulder straps: fouled anchor (deck), propeller (engineer), snowflake (HVAC engineer), or lightning bolt (electrical engineer).

 

And while I understand the OP's reference to "too many Chiefs", there is one and only one "Chief" onboard any ship, and that is the Chief Engineer.:D

Edited December 22, 2013 by chengkp75

[Clarea]

Just to put some perspective here. Most of those you see in whites with stripes on their shoulders are not officers, but hotel supervisors. Only licensed deck and engine officers are ship's officers. In the old days, they were the only ones to be seen with stripes, and were given a stipend to use to entertain guests (buying drinks, etc). With new IMO regulations regarding allowable blood alcohol for ship's officers, the stipends disappeared, and the officers no longer had an incentive to spend their off duty time with the guests. The passengers complained that officers were no longer visible, so the cruise lines decided to put the hotel supervisors in uniform with rank stripes like the ship's officers. Then, the stripes became the method of providing "perks" to the supervisors, and to maintain costs, the lines tend to give out stripes, with the attendant onboard perks, rather than raises in salary.

 

So the trend towards more supervisors in visible whites is increasing, and as others have posted, why is this a problem? Crew ratio to passengers has not gone up, they are just making staff more visible. Are these supervisors interfering with your enjoyment of the various venues? Are they crowding together to block access, or ignoring guest requests? Not sure what the complaint/observation is about.

 

Generally, the only true ship's officers will not have the silver or white between their gold stripes, and will have devices on their shoulder straps: fouled anchor (deck), propeller (engineer), snowflake (HVAC engineer), or lightning bolt (electrical engineer).

 

And while I understand the OP's reference to "too many Chiefs", there is one and only one "Chief" onboard any ship, and that is the Chief Engineer.:D

Interesting historical perspective. :)

[2chiefs]

You can never have too many chiefs!

LOL

[cruzeluver]

OP - I am really very curious as to why this would be of concern to you. Can you elaborate?

[karl_nj]

Is it just me or do others also think that Royal Caribbean has too many supervisors.

The ships seem to be littered with white shirts. Windjammer, Main Dining Room, The Promenade, Pool Decks etc. Everywhere you look supervisors in one role or another.

 

On the other hand, isn't it better to see them out and about? The other option would be for them to hide in their offices while they futz around with spreadsheets on their computers, and sending each other memos.

[leaveitallbehind]

Is it just me or do others also think that Royal Caribbean has too many supervisors.

The ships seem to be littered with white shirts. Windjammer, Main Dining Room, The Promenade, Pool Decks etc. Everywhere you look supervisors in one role or another.

 

OK, I'll bite! How many is "too many"? How many is "not enough"? How many is "the right amount"?

 

More importantly, who's counting and what difference does it make?

Edited December 22, 2013 by leaveitallbehind

[Paulette3028]

Just to put some perspective here. Most of those you see in whites with stripes on their shoulders are not officers, but hotel supervisors. Only licensed deck and engine officers are ship's officers. In the old days, they were the only ones to be seen with stripes, and were given a stipend to use to entertain guests (buying drinks, etc). With new IMO regulations regarding allowable blood alcohol for ship's officers, the stipends disappeared, and the officers no longer had an incentive to spend their off duty time with the guests. The passengers complained that officers were no longer visible, so the cruise lines decided to put the hotel supervisors in uniform with rank stripes like the ship's officers. Then, the stripes became the method of providing "perks" to the supervisors, and to maintain costs, the lines tend to give out stripes, with the attendant onboard perks, rather than raises in salary.

 

So the trend towards more supervisors in visible whites is increasing, and as others have posted, why is this a problem? Crew ratio to passengers has not gone up, they are just making staff more visible. Are these supervisors interfering with your enjoyment of the various venues? Are they crowding together to block access, or ignoring guest requests? Not sure what the complaint/observation is about.

 

Generally, the only true ship's officers will not have the silver or white between their gold stripes, and will have devices on their shoulder straps: fouled anchor (deck), propeller (engineer), snowflake (HVAC engineer), or lightning bolt (electrical engineer).

 

And while I understand the OP's reference to "too many Chiefs", there is one and only one "Chief" onboard any ship, and that is the Chief Engineer.:D

 

From the knowledge that I have gained from people who I have met in the cruise industry....I would describe 'ships officers' into different categories. There are the 'nautical officers and crew' and 'hospitality officers and crew'. But each set of categories, have officers. The Cruise Director is an officer; no they are not a nautical officer, who would have anything to do with the sailing of the ship -- yet they are an officer in the hierarchy of the overall organization. That is just one example, of which there are many.

[Pat.D]

I was on the Liberty last week and I can't say there were too many white shirts, but much to their credit most of the ones I saw (including ships officers) were never idle or "supervizing"...

 

Every time I saw one of them, they were offering help to passengers, picking up something (empty drink glasses, plates...), helping staff carry stuff and working almost non stop just like the staff.

 

Just my 2 cents, your mileage may vary...

 

Pat

[chengkp75]

From the knowledge that I have gained from people who I have met in the cruise industry....I would describe 'ships officers' into different categories. There are the 'nautical officers and crew' and 'hospitality officers and crew'. But each set of categories, have officers. The Cruise Director is an officer; no they are not a nautical officer, who would have anything to do with the sailing of the ship -- yet they are an officer in the hierarchy of the overall organization. That is just one example, of which there are many.

 

Well, that is the general feeling of most hotel department supervisors. However, as we tell new crew when orienting them to shipboard life, if the Hotel Director tells you to do something in regards to your normal job onboard, and the 3rd Officer tells you something else, you'd better do what the HD says. In an emergency, its the other way around, and the lowly one stripe 3rd officer has the legal authority to countermand any non-licensed person onboard. A ship's officer is a legal distinction.

[Paulette3028]

Well, that is the general feeling of most hotel department supervisors. However, as we tell new crew when orienting them to shipboard life, if the Hotel Director tells you to do something in regards to your normal job onboard, and the 3rd Officer tells you something else, you'd better do what the HD says. In an emergency, its the other way around, and the lowly one stripe 3rd officer has the legal authority to countermand any non-licensed person onboard. A ship's officer is a legal distinction.

 

As your background indicates, your experience as a Chief Engineer adds much to this discussion. Every passenger is aware that all ship crewmembers, on ALL sides of the operation, have incredible knowledge to be used in emergencies...and as in all situations, there is a hierarchy of responsibility -- as it should be. You make the point, clearly.

 

But the designation of officer, in the non (as I put it) nautical side of the operations, is not one to be disrespected either. From a passengers POV (just mine, of course), moving up the ladder within the organization to achieve the titles/designations given is important.

 

I want to know, who to approach, if I have a problem -- but also to offer 'commendations' for excellence as well. Too many people only seek out those in upper management positions to complain. It is always good to see everyone on staff, officers included, around the ship.

[cmason]

Don't forget that only certain crew operate 'in front of house'. This is much like a hotel, where most of the action is 'back of the house' out of view of the passengers. In fact, it is my understanding that only certain crew members, mostly either in front of house or fairly senior, are allow to mix with passengers in any significant number. Folks like the Senior staff, hotel staff, Adventure Ocean staff all are allowed to dine in Windjammer at certain times. So, one reason you see so many 'white shirts' as they are among those that you are allowed to see, which causes you to think there are so many of them. In fact, they are greatly outnumbered, but you don't get to see the hundreds that help make your vacation so memorable.

[chengkp75]

As your background indicates, your experience as a Chief Engineer adds much to this discussion. Every passenger is aware that all ship crewmembers, on ALL sides of the operation, have incredible knowledge to be used in emergencies...and as in all situations, there is a hierarchy of responsibility -- as it should be. You make the point, clearly.

 

But the designation of officer, in the non (as I put it) nautical side of the operations, is not one to be disrespected either. From a passengers POV (just mine, of course), moving up the ladder within the organization to achieve the titles/designations given is important. I'm not disrespecting the hotel supervisors, nor their expertise in their field of operations. Simply making the distinction between officers and supervisors.

 

I want to know, who to approach, if I have a problem -- but also to offer 'commendations' for excellence as well. Too many people only seek out those in upper management positions to complain. It is always good to see everyone on staff, officers included, around the ship.Couldn't agree more. And the stripes do tend to make the various levels of management more transparent to guests. I always made it a point to make at least one round around all front of house areas daily, and on turn around days, I would log about 20 miles walking every guest deck continually from arrival to sailing, seeing if there was some problem that needed attention.

 

And the PP who stated that the supervisors were more front of house than many crew is quite valid. This is not only for off-duty hours, where crew are not allowed in guest areas unless on duty, as well as duty hours, where the back of house crew outnumbers the front of house.

[Thetrail]

Is it just me or do others also think that Royal Caribbean has too many supervisors.

The ships seem to be littered with white shirts. Windjammer, Main Dining Room, The Promenade, Pool Decks etc. Everywhere you look supervisors in one role or another.

Do you honestly have even a small clue as to how many crew, supervisors, etc. are on one ship?....:rolleyes:

[LovesCruising]

Personally, I like seeing the "white shirts" out and about on the ship.

[springaussie]

OP - I am really very curious as to why this would be of concern to you. Can you elaborate?

I will elaborate.

With the number of staff visible the ratio of people in the white uniforms compared to the staff in the normal shirts seems very high to me. Is the ratio too high was what I was asking. Windjammer is a great example.

The guys in the white shirts did get me a coffee or a juice with my meal a few times on my last cruise. They also pointed us to a clean table a few times and they do work hard I will not deny that at all.

Thanks all for stating your views and why that is the situation.

[nanwel]

Not like the old "Love Boat" where the "Captain" was everywhere and knew everyone by name and their history.

 

We demand and pay for attention, and the ships deliver - someone has to oversee that it happens.

 

I am sure if we had a complaint, they would be available to help.

 

On Oasis in the spring, a fellow passenger fell ill, they knew what to do in short order without most other passengers even noticing that something was happening.

 

There presents makes me feel safer.

 

Travel in some parts of the world, their job is different - they have to stand on deck and watch all the ship constantly for people coming on board to do harm to us - I respect that they have worked behind the scenes and up to a level to wear the "white shirts".

[BND]

I will elaborate.

With the number of staff visible the ratio of people in the white uniforms compared to the staff in the normal shirts seems very high to me. Is the ratio too high was what I was asking. Windjammer is a great example.

The guys in the white shirts did get me a coffee or a juice with my meal a few times on my last cruise. They also pointed us to a clean table a few times and they do work hard I will not deny that at all.

Thanks all for stating your views and why that is the situation.

 

You do realize there are lots of crew that you never see, right? Not sure why this bothers you or why it matters? People need to enjoy their cruise and quit worrying about the status and incomes of the crew/staff. I doubt anyone comes to your place of employment and questions your pay and position.

Edited December 22, 2013 by BND

[Langley Cruisers]

Windjammer is a great example.The guys in the white shirts did get me a coffee or a juice with my meal a few times on my last cruise. They also pointed us to a clean table a few times.....

 

Yes, those are the Head Waiters from the Main Dining Room. They all take their turns working in the WJ.