how to ruin a cruise line and

[RocketMan275]

after starting this thread got jumped on by a bunch on here.. all I can say is.. 'I rest my case'.... why???...just go to the Roll Call for the Amsterdam World Voyage 2018 and see the NEGATIVE changes being made-- believe they are on pages 42 or 43.. and it's only going to get worse for the rest of the itineraries not just Grand Voyages.. cutting budgets... cutting perks..all in the master plan.. so all you people who like the new changes..glad you do... you have no idea what's going on..

 

I checked out those pages and didn't find anything there that would substantiate a claim that Ashford has "ruined" this cruise line. Please be more specific.

[serendipity1499]

after starting this thread got jumped on by a bunch on here.. all I can say is.. 'I rest my case'.... why???...just go to the Roll Call for the Amsterdam World Voyage 2018 and see the NEGATIVE changes being made-- believe they are on pages 42 or 43.. and it's only going to get worse for the rest of the itineraries not just Grand Voyages.. cutting budgets... cutting perks..all in the master plan.. so all you people who like the new changes..glad you do... you have no idea what's going on..

 

I checked out those pages and didn't find anything there that would substantiate a claim that Ashford has "ruined" this cruise line. Please be more specific.

 

Stakeout, like RocketMan I have not found anything that would substantiate your claim.. Have you ever done a comparison of fares which have been charged over the years?

 

I'm still awed by the fact that HAL's fares on all of their voyages including some of the Grand voyages are still as low as they were many many years ago.. We keep track of our fares for every cruise.. We're still paying the same daily rate for our Caribbean cruises that we paid in 1998..

 

In April of 2006 we paid $437.50 per night on the Prinsendam for a 25 day cruise to the Amazon..In Jan 2013 we paid $497 per night on the Prinsendam to South America/Antarctica for the same cabin on a 68 day cruise..That's about a 13% increase in fare.. Have also cruised on another line & paid much more for our Amazon cruise than we ever paid on HAL..

 

Our Panama Canal Cruise next month is $33 per day more for a VF cabin than it was for an Outside EE cabin in 2009..

 

Every other commodity has increased much more..

 

IMO as a long time cruiser & having retired after more than 30 years in the airline travel field, unless cruise fares are raised, many things will have to change &/or be eliminated..

Edited October 7, 2016 by serendipity1499

[Tom O.]

• The Dance Host & Dance Instructor Programs will be discontinued

• Ministers will be placed on specific holiday cruises only

• Rabbis and Cantors will be placed on specific holiday cruises only

• Bridge Instructors will be placed on cruises of 30 days or more

• Arts & Crafts Instructors and Watercolor Instructors will be placed only on Grand World Voyages

• Tai Chi Instructors will be placed on specific itineraries in Asia when the Instructor also has a minimum of additional regional offerings/areas of expertise to share (such as language lessons, Mah Jongg, culinary expertise, regional art & history presentations, etc.

 

We, and I think most cruisers, would not be affected by any of these changes, as we would not ever make use of any of these things.

I would certainly not say that the cancellation of some rarely used services is ruining a cruise line.

[iancal]

Clearly things have changed on all of the mass market cruise lines over the past ten years.

 

But for us, based on our personal preferences, tastes, and budget we have found that the value proposition for HAL has declined more than it has for Princess or Celebrity. It is not just the ships, it is the entire package.

 

Our hope is that the fresh management and a clear strategy will turn this around.

[Willem Ruys]

It may not be current, however, I believe it was HAL that introduced the buffet concept to cruise ship. :)

 

 

NO. HAL introduced a buffet restaurant (the Lido) to cruise ships but other lines had daily buffets long before someone at HAL thought of the idea...Buffets at lunch and at midnight were long popular both on liner voyages and cruises.

[serendipity1499]

NO. HAL introduced a buffet restaurant (the Lido) to cruise ships but other lines had daily buffets long before someone at HAL thought of the idea...Buffets at lunch and at midnight were long popular both on liner voyages and cruises.

 

Agree...On my very first cruise to the Greek Islands in 1970 we had several lunch buffets & almost daily midnight buffets... On one of my first cruises together with DH on NCL we had buffets...Those were either in 1983 or 1996.. Can't remember which.. I remember a couple of Buffets were out on deck & others were in the MDR..

 

There were lots of Psgrs who enjoyed the buffets every night after the shows..

[serendipity1499]

If you are referring to the changes below, then yes, they have been discussed here in this forum to a certain extent in the threads linked below:

 

HOLLAND AMERICA LINE

For the remainder of 2016, approximately 20 Guest Staff positions remain un-filled. We will work diligently to reach out and fill these cruises as quickly as possible. No further emails are required as we have all preferences well-noted.

 

Each year we review our programming needs. For 2017, Holland America Line will make some significant changes to the Guest Staff Program, as follows:

• The Dance Host & Dance Instructor Programs will be discontinued

• Ministers will be placed on specific holiday cruises only

• Rabbis and Cantors will be placed on specific holiday cruises only

• Bridge Instructors will be placed on cruises of 30 days or more

• Arts & Crafts Instructors and Watercolor Instructors will be placed only on Grand World Voyages

• Tai Chi Instructors will be placed on specific itineraries in Asia when the Instructor also has a minimum of additional regional offerings/areas of expertise to share (such as language lessons, Mah Jongg, culinary expertise, regional art & history presentations, etc.)

For those positions that we will continue to fill, sailing will be by invitation only. Further, cruises will be offered at no charge ($0.00). As in the past, all travel expenses will still be the responsibility of each Guest Staff to get yourselves to and from the ship.

 

 

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2407948

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2409398

 

We, and I think most cruisers, would not be affected by any of these changes, as we would not ever make use of any of these things.

I would certainly not say that the cancellation of some rarely used services is ruining a cruise line.

 

Like you Tom, none of the changes which "Old as Dirt Mom" outlined would affect me either.. My DH plays bridge, but I doubt he would need an instructor as long as the bridge players met a couple of times a week.. Perhaps the reason for cutting out these programs is that not many Psgrs take advantage of them..

Edited October 7, 2016 by serendipity1499

[cruisemom42]

Stakeout, like RocketMan I have not found anything that would substantiate your claim.. Have you ever done a comparison of fares which have been charged over the years?

 

I'm still awed by the fact that HAL's fares on all of their voyages including some of the Grand voyages are still as low as they were many many years ago.. We keep track of our fares for every cruise.. We're still paying the same daily rate for our Caribbean cruises that we paid in 1998..

 

 

In my opinion, using low fares as your only point of comparison sets the threshold pretty low.

 

For me, while cost is one factor, I am not impressed simply by the fact that cruise lines (and HAL is not the only one) have held their fares relatively low over the years. In the process, they have made a lot of other decisions about revenue that are bigger "cons" to me than the single "pro" of a low sticker price. These include:

 

-- Fewer staff for managing activities

-- Fewer entertainment staff and musicians

-- Fewer cabin stewards

-- More tables per wait service team in MDR

-- Lower quality of food in MDR

-- Shorter hours in port on many cruises

-- Decrease in available "free" deck space (without paying a premium)

-- Decrease in number of cruises with on-board lecturers/enrichment

-- Increase in onboard "revenue opportunities" (otherwise known as nickle and diming)

-- Decreased levels of maintenance on some ships (HAL has more reports of A/C failures and plumbing failures than any other line I regularly monitor)

-- Larger ships (with lower operating costs due to larger pax base)

-- And very recently, changes to HAL libraries

 

 

Does the above list stop me from sailing HAL? Not for the right itinerary. But I would choose a different line preferentially IF it offers more of the things I value that HAL no longer provides -- even if the cost is significantly higher.

[serendipity1499]

In my opinion, using low fares as your only point of comparison sets the threshold pretty low.

 

For me, while cost is one factor, I am not impressed simply by the fact that cruise lines (and HAL is not the only one) have held their fares relatively low over the years. In the process, they have made a lot of other decisions about revenue that are bigger "cons" to me than the single "pro" of a low sticker price. These include:

 

-- Fewer staff for managing activities

-- Fewer entertainment staff and musicians

-- Fewer cabin stewards

-- More tables per wait service team in MDR

-- Lower quality of food in MDR

-- Shorter hours in port on many cruises

-- Decrease in available "free" deck space (without paying a premium)

-- Decrease in number of cruises with on-board lecturers/enrichment

-- Increase in onboard "revenue opportunities" (otherwise known as nickle and diming)

-- Decreased levels of maintenance on some ships (HAL has more reports of A/C failures and plumbing failures than any other line I regularly monitor)

-- Larger ships (with lower operating costs due to larger pax base)

-- And very recently, changes to HAL libraries

 

 

Does the above list stop me from sailing HAL? Not for the right itinerary. But I would choose a different line preferentially IF it offers more of the things I value that HAL no longer provides -- even if the cost is significantly higher.

 

Perhaps I really did not make myself clear..I'm not setting the bar low, HAL is! Keeping the low rates is a very large comparison..Please read my LAST sentence in my post No. 152 above.. I said unless HAL raises their rates the service will continue to decline..

 

I am not happy that HAL's rates are low.. I have said more than once on other threads that unless HAL increases their fares they will not be able to maintain their level of service! They are not keeping up with the rate of inflation & that is not going to work for long time HAL cruisers..

 

Until they raise their rates, we are going to see lots of services decline!

Edited October 7, 2016 by serendipity1499

[cruisemom42]

Perhaps I really did not make myself clear..I'm not setting the bar low, HAL is! Keeping the low rates is a very large comparison..Please read my LAST sentence in my post No. 152 above.. I said unless HAL raises their rates the service will continue to decline..

 

I am not happy that HAL's rates are low.. I have said more than once on other threads that unless HAL increases their fares they will not be able to maintain their level of service! They are not keeping up with the rate of inflation & that is not going to work for long time HAL cruisers..

 

Until they raise their rates, we are going to see lots of services decline!

 

My apologies -- it seems I didn't understand what you were trying to say. :o

[AtlantaCruiser72]

Perhaps I really did not make myself clear..I'm not setting the bar low, HAL is! Keeping the low rates is a very large comparison..Please read my LAST sentence in my post No. 152 above.. I said unless HAL raises their rates the service will continue to decline..

 

I am not happy that HAL's rates are low.. I have said more than once on other threads that unless HAL increases their fares they will not be able to maintain their level of service! They are not keeping up with the rate of inflation & that is not going to work for long time HAL cruisers..

 

Until they raise their rates, we are going to see lots of services decline!

 

The problem is that every time they try to raise their fares they see a dropoff in bookings. As is HAL has more Flash sale fares post final payment on many destinations than they should

[kangforpres]

Boy, Mr. Ashford was named "Executive" of the year for Innovation at a medium sized cruise line. People who award "Executive" awards do not really care about the customer's experiences from that company. They care about profit margins, new revenue sources and maybe return customer loyalty which I'm sure HAL scores well on all 3.

 

I've been on HAL 10 times since our first sailing since 2009, that's more than 1 cruise a year. We stay in Suites and I'm sure are considered a prize demo for the cruise industry since we are both working FT with an Upper-middle class lifestyle. We have sailed Cunard once and have a future booking with Princess but will become 4 stars after our next sailing with HAL in Feb. 2017. I think we will continue to sail with them. It's the service we get from the staff aboard the ship that keeps us coming back. Things have changed, in the travel and leisure industry there is always pressure to drive up revenue and lower costs. HAL is no different.

 

When the cabin stewards told us about 5 cruises ago they have to clean twice has many cabins now we felt awful for them, we are from working class backgrounds and know what it means to live hand to mouth and work like a dog all day long. We always tip well for good service both on and off the ship. What I don't understand about HAL CC complainers if it's that much of a pain to cruise with HAL then stop! Vote with your wallet, jump ship to another line.

 

I think Mr. Ashford has done a good job considering what he has inherited, the changes in Entertainment going through the fleet starting with K-dam is indeed "innovated" by HAL standards. Yes it will cost extra for anything beyond basic on a HAL cruise soon, but you can also book an Economy Basic ticket on Delta now, this is just where the industry is heading.

 

-Paul

[clogaltocruise]

Well said, Paul.

 

Sent from my SM-N900V using Forums mobile app

[Stakeout]

for all those who doubted what I said in my original post... LOOK at the current state of HAL onboard its ships and the cutbacks.. specifically the Roll Call thread for the Amsterdam World Cruise 2018 and see what they are saying... I normally would post the link but all those know-it-alls who doubted me can find it themselves

[doublebzz]

for all those who doubted what I said in my original post... LOOK at the current state of HAL onboard its ships and the cutbacks.. specifically the Roll Call thread for the Amsterdam World Cruise 2018 and see what they are saying... I normally would post the link but all those know-it-alls who doubted me can find it themselves

This roll call is 120 pages long. Could you list some of thread numbers of the specific comments to which you are referring?

[CruisinHarvey]

Since Stakeout wanted us to search. LOL. I did find this thread they are saying prices are up significantly. I can't believe HAL hates that.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2511079

[sapper1]

for all those who doubted what I said in my original post... LOOK at the curarent state of HAL onboard its ships and the cutbacks.. specifically the Roll Call thread for the Amsterdam World Cruise 2018 and see what they are saying... I normally would post the link but all those know-it-alls who doubted me can find it themselves

Read 120 pages to find out what you are talking about? I think I'll just live with the suspense.

[Roz]

for all those who doubted what I said in my original post... LOOK at the current state of HAL onboard its ships and the cutbacks.. specifically the Roll Call thread for the Amsterdam World Cruise 2018 and see what they are saying... I normally would post the link but all those know-it-alls who doubted me can find it themselves

 

Is this meant as some kind of punishment for those who don't agree with you?

 

Roz

[whogo]

for all those who doubted what I said in my original post... LOOK at the current state of HAL onboard its ships and the cutbacks.. specifically the Roll Call thread for the Amsterdam World Cruise 2018 and see what they are saying... I normally would post the link but all those know-it-alls who doubted me can find it themselves

Is it all still Orlando Ashford's fault? Is he to blame for declining quality on the other mainstream cruise lines? Whatever the cruise lines are doing, they are making their shareholders happy.

 

 

Ashford became president of Holland America in December 2014. Since that time Carnival Cruise Lines' stock is up 66%, the S&P 500 is up 18% and the Dow is up 20%.

[OlsSalt]

Agreed.

 

Not even the most ardent cheerleader could use 'HAL' and "innovative" in the same sentence. It is laughable.

 

As an ardent cheerleader, I laud HAL for not being "innovative.

[OlsSalt]

How has he 'ruined' Holland?

 

I guess by running up the CCL stock price?

[wander]

Stakeout,

I have read all of the posts on the 120 page thread for the Amsterdam World 2018 cruise, over the past months. Both good points and poor points about the Amsterdam have been hashed over through-out the thread, along with some useful information. In terms of how serious the problems are in these writers minds - most of these folks have committed to spend tens of thousands of dollars each to do the 2018 WC, this is how serious they apparently think the issues are. And a number of these same folks just completed the 2017 WC on the same ship. Following your comments, then how much do you suppose HAL is paying them to go on the cruise?

[sppunk]

I guess by running up the CCL stock price?

I have an alt theory that I'll not post but is about Mr. Ashford himself.

 

FWIW HAL bookings are at record highs from what I've been told.

[Tampa Girl]

How has he 'ruined' Holland?

 

I must have missed that post, but I don't see where OP said that in his/her initial post.

[esimon]

just another thread for people who don't know talk like they do and many others just complain and vent. really???