Anthem keeps docking us around

[Merion_Mom]

This is my first post to this board. I have been reading the posts on here for the past couple of days. My family came off of this cruise last night (Thank God!) and now that we are safe and back on solid ground I would like to say a couple of things.

 

This experience was the absolute worst thing I have ever been through. I have never feared for my life or my family's lives in a way that I did on Sunday. I have read on here that It couldn't have been that bad, that some would have enjoyed the ride! Absolutely not. If you did not experience it you cannot even begin to know what it was like.

 

Royal Caribbean and the captain should not be praised, they should be held accountable for putting us in that situation at all. I don't really care what anyone on the boards say about the weather, the reports were out there, we knew Saturday that there were hurricane strength winds of the coast of NC. We talked about it on the way to the ship. My husband said not to worry as they would never sail in the direction of a storm. Ha! Alternate plans should have been made before we found ourselves in the middle of the mess. We were not informed of anything during the periodic announcements that could be found reassuring or comforting. It didn't help the glass and belongings flying all over the cabin and breaking, watching the balcony furniture fly around the balcony hitting the door, etc. Then we were given false information regarding what was going to happen next. Regarding guest services, if you could get a hold of them at all you were told that more information would be forthcoming. They were no help at all.

 

We had no food for hours. I see somebody said that food was brought to the cabins, not true, at least not in our case. If you are going on a cruise be sure to bring something that you can eat in your cabin in case of an emergency like this. When we were allowed out the next morning it was still not easy to find something to eat. When Windjammer finally opened it was so packed (understandably so, but still) it was overwhelming.

 

As far as what Royal Caribbean is being praised on this board for "giving" the passengers for having been put through this horrible experience, a full refund, the least they can do as we did not have any sort of vacation, 50% off of another cruise, what a joke, first there are not many that I have spoken to that will be cruising anytime in the near future, if ever and that is just a way for Royal to try to get people to spend money on their flawed product again, it is not a benefit or a reward the us. The free wifi after the incident, a lot of us had wifi anyway, it was nice that everyone could use it to make alternate arrangements but then Royal changed the schedule again and messed up a majority of the alternate plans made, open bar.. what a joke. Not everyone drinks and I guess they think those that do will get drunk and forget they feared for their lives he day before! I don't even understand that one. What they do OWE us is an explanation of how we were put in the situation we were in in the first place and to make sure it never happens to anyone again.

 

I have read a lot of comments here. To all that are defending Royal just because you love Royal, you were not on this cruise. Posters such a Katrina and bedazzled are truly in the minority in how they feel about the experience. I have not heard much "positive" response as it was in know way a "positive" experience. The only positive is that we are here to tell about it. Who would think that would be the positive we came home from our long awaited so called vacation with??

 

So there are my comments. This is the 12th cruise that we have been on and will be our last. One thing that I learned from this experience is that the passenger has absolutely no control over what happens to them on a ship. You are at the mercy Royal Caribbean. Royal Caribbean's main concern is keeping everything hush hush to avoid bad press and making as much money as they can instead of the health and well being of the paying customers on the vessel.

 

Thank you for finding Cruise Critic and posting your feelings. Enjoy your future vacations, wherever they make take you.

[dandee2]

This is my first post to this board. I have been reading the posts on here for the past couple of days. My family came off of this cruise last night (Thank God!) and now that we are safe and back on solid ground I would like to say a couple of things.

 

Many people on the ship didn't have internet or were able to contact family members and friends. BUT there was lots of people on shore following you and your ship during this ordeal. You were NOT alone (if that can ease somewhat your bad experience). People were giving advice (good or bad), commented, following you, etc. I'm sure most CC members had good intent even when jokes fell flat (like I did ).

 

Personally, I'll make sure to pay for my wifi on-board for my next cruise.

 

Have a wonderful day.

[Merion_Mom]

Many people on the ship didn't have internet or were able to contact family members and friends. BUT there was lots of people on shore following you and your ship during this ordeal. You were NOT alone (if that can ease somewhat your bad experience). People were giving advice (good or bad), commented, following you, etc. I'm sure most CC members had good intent even when jokes fell flat (like I did ).

 

Personally, I'll make sure to pay for my wifi on-board for my next cruise.

 

Have a wonderful day.

 

EVERYONE on board had internet, dandee. The ship gave them free wifi for the duration of their cruise.

[xpcdoojk]

I am sure Housewife's observations are valid , and that there are many more who see things from her angle. But so are Karina's and Lindsay's. I wouldn't see it like that and I also have experienced very rough seas and a couple of incidents where I woke in the middle of the night and thought "Wow, that was scary!" when the cabin doors swung open and things spilled off the counters. I was a little scared, but my general outlook on things is always positive. I have always been a half full kinda person. That said, yes, I realize I was not there, but as all of you do, I can predict what my initial perception would be had I been there.

 

I am sorry that these people had a bad time of it. They probably shouldn't cruise any more. But nothing they went through would stop me. And by the way, my thoughts are also valid! And I have a right to feel that way and vocalize them too.

 

That ship never experienced a 45% heel...we used to own a Catalina 27' sail boat and I have stood on the gunnels on one side with the other side in the water and the heel meter only registered 25%. It's laughable that some on these boards believe that one. 45% heel would've put the balconies in the water on one side.

 

Folks like Cheng and others, men who've sailed on naval vessels have weathered typhoons and weather as bad as this many times, first time, yeah probably a little frightened but can attest that ships go through this type of weather all the time. The captain didn't sail right into the storm, he sailed down the coast trying to get past it. Things just didn't go as he planned, that's all.

 

Just remember, how one perceives things and how they really are are two different things. Psych 101 - 3 tenants of Perception: The way you see things, the way others see things and the way they really are. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

 

Great post.

 

I have turtled my sailboat many times. When I was a kid we had a big Venture Cat, and I hated when I turtled that boat, it was all sail, with a trampoline and two tiny hulls, When it turtled I usually had to flag a boat down to hook a rope around the mast then have them pull it over. So, I tried to never lose it in the middle of the week when there are not a lot of boats on the lake.

 

The Lazer was always easy to flip, so riding the ragged edge was just exhilarating.

 

My point, is a lot of people are terrified of water, and the ocean in particular. I understand their feelings and I believe they have every right to those feelings. They are not my feelings, and I agree some people shouldn't really travel because they expect everything to always be flawless. We all can only wish.

 

Yes, Paul, I agree with what you said, based on the people I saw on TV. That said, you are going to get killed.:D

 

JC

[Cushing985]

I won't ever downplay what people felt onboard this cruise, I've been there more times than I care to think about, and yes, in weather and ship motion more severe than you and the others describe. Its my job. And for someone who is not used to the sea, this first experience is of course shattering. No denying.

 

My question is: Do you fly? Are you any more in control in an aluminum cylinder at 35,000 feet than you are onboard a cruise ship?

 

Doesn't seem that RCI is trying to keep things "hush hush", when they've admitted to a mistake, and have come up with an action plan.

 

Do you really think that Corporate is so short sighted as to knowingly place a $billion+ dollar vessel, and the lives of passengers and crew at risk for the sake of a single cruise's revenue? Loss of the vessel would involve the litigation over injuries and loss of life, possible pollution remediation, the value of the ship, and even the loss of years of future revenue from this ship.

 

I am not a RCI loyalist. As stated, I try to be the impartial arbitrator, pointing out the realities of the sea, the maritime industry, and international law. I have castigated as well as defended the same cruise lines, when the facts demand it.

 

Sorry...logic and knowledge has no place on this thread.

[BecciBoo]

JC I started sailing on a Sunfish way back in the day, been sailing all my life on lakes and sea. So I do have some experience...Catalina makes a fine boat, she had a deep swing keel so she was easy to right. Loved that boat.

 

These days, I sail on big ships with great captains instead.;):D

[caribbean sailor]

Wow just watch the national news (NBC) beat up on RCCL. As usual they found every passenger that had something negative to say and put them on air. Not a single passenger had anything good to say about the crew, captain, or RCCL. If there were any, they got edited out.[/q

 

Easy they were there you were not.I would rather hear from them then you.:p

[CPT Trips]

I won't ever downplay what people felt onboard this cruise, I've been there more times than I care to think about, and yes, in weather and ship motion more severe than you and the others describe. Its my job. And for someone who is not used to the sea, this first experience is of course shattering. No denying.

 

My question is: Do you fly? Are you any more in control in an aluminum cylinder at 35,000 feet than you are onboard a cruise ship?

Doesn't seem that RCI is trying to keep things "hush hush", when they've admitted to a mistake, and have come up with an action plan.

 

Do you really think that Corporate is so short sighted as to knowingly place a $billion+ dollar vessel, and the lives of passengers and crew at risk for the sake of a single cruise's revenue? Loss of the vessel would involve the litigation over injuries and loss of life, possible pollution remediation, the value of the ship, and even the loss of years of future revenue from this ship.

 

I am not a RCI loyalist. As stated, I try to be the impartial arbitrator, pointing out the realities of the sea, the maritime industry, and international law. I have castigated as well as defended the same cruise lines, when the facts demand it.

 

http://www.travelmarketreport.com/articles/TMR-Exclusive-As-Anthem-Prepares-to-Sail-Again-Royal-Caribbean-Adds-New-Shoreside-Team-to-Watch-the-Weather

 

Quoting just for context for the attached article, not criticism of the post.

Here's the "admission."

Seems to me that establishing a year round weather watch team acknowledges that RC did not perform adequate due diligence.

Some of the critical on-board posters are owed apologies for the flames.

 

ETA: I too sailed - off shore, blue water experience. Went thru some nasty, unexpected. stuff while several days out. Also spent time waiting in port waiting out known storms and potential storms.

Edited February 11, 2016 by CPT Trips

[dogo88]

This is my first post to this board. I have been reading the posts on here for the past couple of days. My family came off of this cruise last night (Thank God!) and now that we are safe and back on solid ground I would like to say a couple of things.

 

This experience was the absolute worst thing I have ever been through. I have never feared for my life or my family's lives in a way that I did on Sunday. I have read on here that It couldn't have been that bad, that some would have enjoyed the ride! Absolutely not. If you did not experience it you cannot even begin to know what it was like.

 

Royal Caribbean and the captain should not be praised, they should be held accountable for putting us in that situation at all. I don't really care what anyone on the boards say about the weather, the reports were out there, we knew Saturday that there were hurricane strength winds of the coast of NC. We talked about it on the way to the ship. My husband said not to worry as they would never sail in the direction of a storm. Ha! Alternate plans should have been made before we found ourselves in the middle of the mess. We were not informed of anything during the periodic announcements that could be found reassuring or comforting. It didn't help the glass and belongings flying all over the cabin and breaking, watching the balcony furniture fly around the balcony hitting the door, etc. Then we were given false information regarding what was going to happen next. Regarding guest services, if you could get a hold of them at all you were told that more information would be forthcoming. They were no help at all.

 

We had no food for hours. I see somebody said that food was brought to the cabins, not true, at least not in our case. If you are going on a cruise be sure to bring something that you can eat in your cabin in case of an emergency like this. When we were allowed out the next morning it was still not easy to find something to eat. When Windjammer finally opened it was so packed (understandably so, but still) it was overwhelming.

 

As far as what Royal Caribbean is being praised on this board for "giving" the passengers for having been put through this horrible experience, a full refund, the least they can do as we did not have any sort of vacation, 50% off of another cruise, what a joke, first there are not many that I have spoken to that will be cruising anytime in the near future, if ever and that is just a way for Royal to try to get people to spend money on their flawed product again, it is not a benefit or a reward the us. The free wifi after the incident, a lot of us had wifi anyway, it was nice that everyone could use it to make alternate arrangements but then Royal changed the schedule again and messed up a majority of the alternate plans made, open bar.. what a joke. Not everyone drinks and I guess they think those that do will get drunk and forget they feared for their lives he day before! I don't even understand that one. What they do OWE us is an explanation of how we were put in the situation we were in in the first place and to make sure it never happens to anyone again.

 

I have read a lot of comments here. To all that are defending Royal just because you love Royal, you were not on this cruise. Posters such a Katrina and bedazzled are truly in the minority in how they feel about the experience. I have not heard much "positive" response as it was in know way a "positive" experience. The only positive is that we are here to tell about it. Who would think that would be the positive we came home from our long awaited so called vacation with??

 

So there are my comments. This is the 12th cruise that we have been on and will be our last. One thing that I learned from this experience is that the passenger has absolutely no control over what happens to them on a ship. You are at the mercy Royal Caribbean. Royal Caribbean's main concern is keeping everything hush hush to avoid bad press and making as much money as they can instead of the health and well being of the paying customers on the vessel.

 

What would have been your reaction/comment if on Saturday the line has said they were not sailing and refunded all passengers cruise money due to the weather potentially being very bad?

[FLACRUISER99]

What would have been your reaction/comment if on Saturday the line has said they were not sailing and refunded all passengers cruise money due to the weather potentially being very bad?

Enough already play nice and give the poor person a break.

[AdvGirl]

I am sure that were scared and perhaps feared for your life, and are truly disgusted with your experience. However you are undercut your arguments by making emotional claims and presenting them as facts.

 

No, I was not on your Anthem cruise, but having crossed the Drake Passage to Antarctica and having been in a storm with 70 foot waves (much higher than the wave reports I have seen for Anthem) for 12 hours (April 2004, QE2, middle of the Atlantic, much further from rescue than you ever were), I feel that I know what it was like without having been on this particular cruise. The primary difference was that I believed (rightly or wrongly) in the seaworthiness of the vessels, and you did not. Therefore I enjoyed the ride.

 

When I see words like "truly" ("truly in the minority") I see a flag to worry about the veracity of what is about to follow. While it might be true that a majority of the passengers agree with your opinion of the cruise, I doubt that you have a statically valid sample of passenger opinion to be able to make the claim you did. If you explain why your sampling method (remember that like minded people tend to congregate together) is valid, I'll withdraw my comment.

 

Nevertheless I am sorry that you had such an unpleasant experience.

 

I was in Navy for 26 years and I was in no position to judge seaworthiness of the Anthem. I did trust the capt when he said the ship was fine.

 

On those that claimed 45 degrees - to them it felt like 45 - although an incline meter would of read less it felt like a lot - so no need to argue numbers.

 

Everyone experienced this in there own way and experiences were varied. Balcony doors blown open, rooms flooded, celings falling. None of thosed happened to me so my comfort level was very different then those who did.

 

We should remember the crew as well not all are experienced sailors many of them where frightened as well.

 

When a very experienced capt says this is the worst storm he has been through I also belive him.

[xpcdoojk]

JC I started sailing on a Sunfish way back in the day, been sailing all my life on lakes and sea. So I do have some experience...Catalina makes a fine boat, she had a deep swing keel so she was easy to right. Loved that boat.

 

These days, I sail on big ships with great captains instead.;):D

 

I still have a laser, I learned on a sailboat from Sears, it was an awful piece of crap, but it was fun. I remember one day taking two girls out on it when I was about 12 and dumping one of them on the other side of the lake because she didn't like I was paying attention to the other girl. I picked her up later. :D

 

Then my brother bought the Cat and my brother-in-law bought the Laser. Love the Laser, I still have one at the lake house, that I try to sail a few days each year. The company I work for is privately held, and my boss (owner) has all sorts of toys. Several large sailboats on a lake near where we live, and I have raced most summers, and have been on three governors cup winning yachts (Governors cup the state championship) My boss, also, has a giant racing yacht he keeps in the summer at Block Island (where I have raced in the Block island races a couple of times) in the winter it is Key West for those races, he has just been back a couple of weeks. Then early spring they will race in Charleston. I don't usually get to go as someone has to run the business.:D

 

O and for Capt DAVE and Loubetti, we have airplanes too, nothing as big as a G-IV but still twin engine jet, and our pilots ego is right up there.... We call him Brad TFP ... I will let you guess what TFP means. He is so proud of it that he personalized his golf balls with BTFP.

 

JC

[shaun07]

http://nypost.com/2016/02/10/titanic-ii-to-set-sail-in-2018-for-people-who-arent-superstitious-at-all/

[NJHousewife]

I'm not sure why you'd get to decide who is in the minority and who is not.

 

3000 people chose to stay ON BOARD last night instead of rushing for the exits to get off. Yes, not everyone drinks but having the open bars is a huge plus for passengers as well as the internet. Just to have a beer and not have to worry about the costs and know cruise line is taking care of it, is a little thing but goes a long way.

 

I also don't buy the internet package, I don't go on vacation to use my email and devices all week. So not everyone purchases the added internet package, so giving that to customers to make alternate arrangements was also something I would be grateful for.

 

Well, I was on the ship. I spoke to and overheard many, many comments. Like I said the position of the two persons posting here were of the minority as far as what I heard, and what I feel too.

[Kosi]

I just watched the interviews of folks coming off Anthem. I don't know if they specifically sought out Snookie and her crew but holy crap, there were some real drama queens. Is this what it's like on all cruises out of that area? :confused:

 

I say this more in jest than anything else but go ahead and flame me...I know it's coming. I admit I've lived on an island too long and that's why I have a hard time understanding the ways of the northeast.

 

They all look and talk like Snookie and her crew.. but I would think all of Long Island is included in this look..

[John&LaLa]

They could not go 'straight to port' because [a] this would contravene the Jones Act and it is not like a supermarket car park where you can turn up with a ship with 5000 on board and expect a parking space :rolleyes: I suspect it has been 'rocky the whole way back' because of the second storm that suddenly brewed outside Jacksonville and that the Captain very sensibly turned back from to avoid.

 

Apologies if this has been covered, but Port Canaveral can be very accommodating in case of weather emergencies. Hurrican Cristobol, August 27, 2014. Plus, they had a parking space, regardless. This was before T1 was even up and running. Also, have we not confirmed that the cabotage issue can be waived in weather emergencies.

 

 

Picture credit - Exploration Tower at Port Canaveral

[JimmyVWine]

When a very experienced capt says this is the worst storm he has been through I also belive him.

 

Drop mic. Walk off stage. There is really nothing more that needs to be said. To suggest that passengers are being overly dramatic or "Jersey Drama Queens" is silly. I'm sure that the Navy and Coast Guard vets have all seen worse days. So have the captains and crews from the crab boats in Deadliest Catch. But the demographic of passengers on a luxury cruise ship are very different. If they say that they were horrified, let them have their day.

[chengkp75]

The PVSA can and is waived in cases of weather and mechanical problems.

[Paul65]

Well, I was on the ship. I spoke to and overheard many, many comments. Like I said the position of the two persons posting here were of the minority as far as what I heard, and what I feel too.

 

I think the point to you was that, just like you probably don't want people to dismiss your opinions, you shouldn't be dismissing the opinions of other passengers.

 

I get that it was a rough time, and you're lashing out a bit, because you're angry that you were put through it. That's understandable. But just accept that not everyone who went through it had the same reaction you did. :)

[Reader0108598]

I was in Navy for 26 years and I was in no position to judge seaworthiness of the Anthem. I did trust the capt when he said the ship was fine.

 

On those that claimed 45 degrees - to them it felt like 45 - although an incline meter would of read less it felt like a lot - so no need to argue numbers.

 

Everyone experienced this in there own way and experiences were varied. Balcony doors blown open, rooms flooded, celings falling. None of thosed happened to me so my comfort level was very different then those who did.

 

We should remember the crew as well not all are experienced sailors many of them where frightened as well.

 

When a very experienced capt says this is the worst storm he has been through I also belive him.

 

 

 

Great post AdvGirl :)

[NJHousewife]

I think the point to you was that, just like you probably don't want people to dismiss your opinions, you shouldn't be dismissing the opinions of other passengers.

 

I get that it was a rough time, and you're lashing out a bit, because you're angry that you were put through it. That's understandable. But just accept that not everyone who went through it had the same reaction you did. :)

 

I'm sorry, hang on there, I'm not discounting anything or lashing out at anyone. I'm just saying that the majority of what I heard agree with my account and feeling as to what happened and to what should happen. That is all I said. Please don't try to misquote what I said or what I meant. If they didn't have a problem with it or didn't think the situation was mishandled that's great but as far as what I experienced most passengers did not feel that way.

Edited February 11, 2016 by NJHousewife

[Paul65]

I'm sorry, hang on there, I'm not discounting anything or lashing out at anyone. I'm just saying that the majority of what I heard agree with my account and feeling as to what happened and to what should happen. That is all I said. Please don't try to misquote what I said or what I meant. If they didn't have a problem with it or didn't think the situation was mishandled that's great but as far as what I experienced most passengers did not feel that way.

 

I think it's best just not to try to say what the "majority" of passengers thought, or tell others they were clearly in the minority. Sticking to how you felt is better. Proclaiming that someone else is clearly in the minority is, in fact, discounting their opinions.

 

And I didn't mean that you were lashing out at other passengers, but you obviously were lashing out at Royal Caribbean in your first post (with claims such as them only being concerned about keeping things "hush, hush"). And, as I said, I understand being angry and feeling like lashing out in that way. :cool:

Edited February 11, 2016 by Paul65

[BecciBoo]

I'm sorry, hang on there, I'm not discounting anything or lashing out at anyone. I'm just saying that the majority of what I heard agree with my account and feeling as to what happened and to what should happen. That is all I said. Please don't try to misquote what I said or what I meant. If they didn't have a problem with it or didn't think the situation was mishandled that's great but as far as what I experienced most passengers did not feel that way.

 

Don't you mean, "SOME passengers that I spoke with out of 4000 did not feel that way"...."MOST" is way to quantitative...seriously. But for you and those, its valid. Most of us on here are NOT trying to invalidate your account or feelings, regardless of what the other defenders on here think, but there are always 2 sides, or 3 or 4 or 5, to the story.

[Irene7]

There is no money RC can give to make this horrific experience OK.

Somewhere between Captain and Corporate a very poor decision was made to start this cruise that put over 5000 human lives in jeopardy. There is no excuse for that. Thank God everyone is now safe.

 

I second that!

[LuckiStac13*Majesty*]

This is my first post to this board. I have been reading the posts on here for the past couple of days. My family came off of this cruise last night (Thank God!) and now that we are safe and back on solid ground I would like to say a couple of things.

 

This experience was the absolute worst thing I have ever been through. I have never feared for my life or my family's lives in a way that I did on Sunday. I have read on here that It couldn't have been that bad, that some would have enjoyed the ride! Absolutely not. If you did not experience it you cannot even begin to know what it was like.

 

Royal Caribbean and the captain should not be praised, they should be held accountable for putting us in that situation at all. I don't really care what anyone on the boards say about the weather, the reports were out there, we knew Saturday that there were hurricane strength winds of the coast of NC. We talked about it on the way to the ship. My husband said not to worry as they would never sail in the direction of a storm. Ha! Alternate plans should have been made before we found ourselves in the middle of the mess. We were not informed of anything during the periodic announcements that could be found reassuring or comforting. It didn't help the glass and belongings flying all over the cabin and breaking, watching the balcony furniture fly around the balcony hitting the door, etc. Then we were given false information regarding what was going to happen next. Regarding guest services, if you could get a hold of them at all you were told that more information would be forthcoming. They were no help at all.

 

We had no food for hours. I see somebody said that food was brought to the cabins, not true, at least not in our case. If you are going on a cruise be sure to bring something that you can eat in your cabin in case of an emergency like this. When we were allowed out the next morning it was still not easy to find something to eat. When Windjammer finally opened it was so packed (understandably so, but still) it was overwhelming.

 

As far as what Royal Caribbean is being praised on this board for "giving" the passengers for having been put through this horrible experience, a full refund, the least they can do as we did not have any sort of vacation, 50% off of another cruise, what a joke, first there are not many that I have spoken to that will be cruising anytime in the near future, if ever and that is just a way for Royal to try to get people to spend money on their flawed product again, it is not a benefit or a reward the us. The free wifi after the incident, a lot of us had wifi anyway, it was nice that everyone could use it to make alternate arrangements but then Royal changed the schedule again and messed up a majority of the alternate plans made, open bar.. what a joke. Not everyone drinks and I guess they think those that do will get drunk and forget they feared for their lives he day before! I don't even understand that one. What they do OWE us is an explanation of how we were put in the situation we were in in the first place and to make sure it never happens to anyone again.

 

I have read a lot of comments here. To all that are defending Royal just because you love Royal, you were not on this cruise. Posters such a Katrina and bedazzled are truly in the minority in how they feel about the experience. I have not heard much "positive" response as it was in know way a "positive" experience. The only positive is that we are here to tell about it. Who would think that would be the positive we came home from our long awaited so called vacation with??

 

So there are my comments. This is the 12th cruise that we have been on and will be our last. One thing that I learned from this experience is that the passenger has absolutely no control over what happens to them on a ship. You are at the mercy Royal Caribbean. Royal Caribbean's main concern is keeping everything hush hush to avoid bad press and making as much money as they can instead of the health and well being of the paying customers on the vessel.

 

I'd like to say thanks for sharing your story - what you went through was awful and I feel for everyone onboard. Sorry it was so scary :(