Buyer beware

[galensgrl]

I had toilet issues in my trip on the Veendam last month. My issues were not that it happened. My issues were with the front desk staff who did nothing and never issued an apology. It happens. It's a ship. I get it. But offer apology. Offer to make t right.do something. There are a million ways to make a customer heard and feel better about a gross situation. And my response I got from mentioning such in the survey again came with nothing except "they feel sad that I had areas I felt dissapointed in". Nope that's not an apology. And we also got nothing in response from hotel management either. It left a bad taste in an otherwise enjoyable cruise. But seriously toilet issues are gross. No water. That's bad.

 

I agree with your post. There are some issues that are more serious than others, obviously. Slow internet? You're on a ship where the internet service is usually spotty at best. They don't have the mixed salads you want on the salad bar? This I get because being diabetic, I can't have the bread but still want the tuna or egg salad. Those mixed salads get old and crusty looking pretty quick when sitting out on a salad bar, so I'll scrape it off the bread if I want it bad enough. I paid to cruise, the cruise line can figure out what is cost effective for them to offer on a salad bar. And I am not a wasteful person in general, but I have a restrictive diet, and still I have to eat like anyone else. I would love to opt for pasta and other "carby" foods at the buffet, but I don't want to lose my eyesight or my feet, so I watch my diet.

 

Non working toilet and no water? That is a basic need really, and two of the things you expect to have on a cruise are a working toilet and clear, potable running water. Not having those basic needs met is unacceptable really. That could upset anyone really, I know I'd be upset to have a cabin with a non-working bathroom. And I agree with the OP on that specific point 100%. Getting it fixed should be the priority for shipboard staff when they are made aware of it. But I have read that front desk staff on ships are notorious for acting like issues such as toilet and plumbing issues are unheard of "until now." I think there's a tendency to try to avoid having to offer compensation, but that's just my take on this phenomena of not apologizing.

[IRL_Joanie]

Extremely professional HD.

If he actually refused to meet with any pax, he had good reason to, I would think.

 

Thanks for letting us know who the HD was. Would you know who the GRM was?

 

Joanie

 

You are thinking of Jessica Schuman and her chef hubbie Thomas?

 

They are on the Noordam right now, I think.

 

Yes, agree Mark Pells is an extremely professional, personable and approachable man. We've had him as our HD once and liked him right away. So if he was refusing/unable to meet with the OP, I think there had to be extenuating circumstances we've not heard of.

 

I've read all the glowing reports from other more established long term HAL cruisers on this board when people ask about HD's.

 

You are correct in the female HD being Ms Shumann. We've had her as our HD once a couple years ago.

 

Before I forget.... Several years ago I had the chance to sit down and have a 1 on 1 conversation with Ron Botenbels, at the time the HD on Westerdam. We were talking of whom we should go to and when if we have a problem. His response was

 

1. Front Desk: Report the problem to them and give them a chance to fix the problem. Sometimes they, Front Desk Staff (Purser?) will have to contact Seattle for fixing/resolving/aiding the passenger.

 

As he told me, and I reported it in one of my reviews from 2010 or 2011, He does not have direct access to Seattle. All reports go through the Front Desk and Seattle responds to the Front Desk Staff who then attempt to help the passenger with Seattle's direction (hope that makes sense?)

 

If Step 1 does not work go to step 2

 

Step 2: Request in writing a meeting with the Hotel Director. He/she must clear up a time frame of approximately 90 minutes in his/her hectic 20+ hour day, in order to listen to the passengers' complaint.

 

After speaking with the passenger, he/she then goes about trying to resolve the problem in the nearly exact details as Step 1, contacting the Front Desk Staff, having them check with Head of whatever department the passenger is unhappy with.

 

I believe, IIRC, Ron said it can take hours, if not days, to try and reach either a happy solution (Problem fixed) or passenger placated with............

 

Joanie

Edited April 7, 2016 by IRL_Joanie

[GlennG]

I agree with your post. There are some issues that are more serious than others, obviously. Slow internet? You're on a ship where the internet service is usually spotty at best. They don't have the mixed salads you want on the salad bar? This I get because being diabetic, I can't have the bread but still want the tuna or egg salad. Those mixed salads get old and crusty looking pretty quick when sitting out on a salad bar, so I'll scrape it off the bread if I want it bad enough. I paid to cruise, the cruise line can figure out what is cost effective for them to offer on a salad bar. And I am not a wasteful person in general, but I have a restrictive diet, and still I have to eat like anyone else. I would love to opt for pasta and other "carby" foods at the buffet, but I don't want to lose my eyesight or my feet, so I watch my diet.

 

Non working toilet and no water? That is a basic need really, and two of the things you expect to have on a cruise are a working toilet and clear, potable running water. Not having those basic needs met is unacceptable really. That could upset anyone really, I know I'd be upset to have a cabin with a non-working bathroom. And I agree with the OP on that specific point 100%. Getting it fixed should be the priority for shipboard staff when they are made aware of it. But I have read that front desk staff on ships are notorious for acting like issues such as toilet and plumbing issues are unheard of "until now." I think there's a tendency to try to avoid having to offer compensation, but that's just my take on this phenomena of not apologizing.

 

What an articulate and thoughtful piece of writing. Thank you, galensgrl. While some complaints of Holland America Line can be described as frivolous and unimportant, it's not unreasonable to have basic needs met while on a cruise. I consider a "working toilet" to be a basic need. After following this forum on a reasonably regular basis, I don't think I'm out-of-line in stating that Holland America Line's performance in maintaining its plumbing and air-conditioning infrastructure is unsatisfactory. The OP has every right to be upset with toilet and plumbing issues. I don't really care to know who the Hotel Manager is. I would want the problem attended to. Avoiding these kinds of problems certainly does not enhance the reputation of HAL as being a "Signature of Excellence."

[OlsSalt]

"Non-working toilet" can mean anything from a delayed flush to no flush to over-flowing. For a few minutes, hours, days. Doesn't pay to get into a dither until there are more details.

 

Acceptable for me (after many ships and many varying similar experiences) delay flush, no flush for a few hours, over-flowing once or even twice if it is a long cruise.

 

NO toilet flush at all for a whole day would obviously a NON-WORKING TOILET. But there is a lot of latitude in-between that we simply have gotten used to when on board any ship.

 

For me, the term "non-working toilet" needs qualification since it means all things to all people.

[Just_a_cruiser]

I've cruised many lines and the only line I've had issues with a "non working toilet" is Hal. I wonder why if it's such a normal occurance why hasn't it happened on other lines. While for some it's perfectly acceptable to have a toilet that doesn't work a ship is not a camping trip and its not acceptable to me.

[Floridianfamily5]

Toilet issues were sewage overflowing all over the floor. Our neighbor's started the morning of and we mentioned ours was acting off. Emitting odors and delayed flushing. Ignored. Came back to raw sewage on the floor called immediately. Ignored. Walked to front desk and waited (no apology) had a man to clean it up (he sprayed some spray and wiped with the towel we payed down to block the sewage from hitting our carpet). Then he called. Waited 30 min. Nothing. Then or room steward promised it would be fixed while we ate dinner. We had to shower next door in our kids room. Luckily we had the kids room. Formal night after Mexico. Never got an apology. Never a oh that's inconvenient I know dinner is soon you can use the spa shower sorry for the incovinence nothing.

[SC_GAY_Cruiser]

There should be a separate thread for Do-Do......or Don't Don't! :eek:

[Bailey & Sophie]

I am a glass-half-empty kind of gal, but I don't get on a cruise expecting that it will be a below-average experience. Everyone who keeps comparing ships to hotels doesn't acknowledge that a really dissatisfied customer can leave a hotel. And, yes, one can leave a ship, but it's a bit more labor-intensive and costly.

Well, sorry, but this seems to sum it up. If you go through life with a "glass half full" attitude, you won't find much happiness in anything.

I'm sorry your cruise was so disappointing. We were on the Oosterdam just a few weeks before you were. I didn't experience any problems like you did, but I wasn't looking though the bottom half of my glass.

[SetAnOpenCourse]

...

Step 2: Request in writing a meeting with the Hotel Director. He/she must clear up a time frame of approximately 90 minutes in his/her hectic 20+ hour day, in order to listen to the passengers' complaint.

...

 

My goodness! Does this mean if they don't have approximately 90 contiguous minutes open in their schedule, they won't see a passenger? That can't be a policy - I'm amazed if it could even be standard practice! But I can see how it would make one's job easier.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Yes, agree Mark Pells is an extremely professional, personable and approachable man. We've had him as our HD once and liked him right away. So if he was refusing/unable to meet with the OP, I think there had to be extenuating circumstances we've not heard of.

 

I've read all the glowing reports from other more established long term HAL cruisers on this board when people ask about HD's.

 

You are correct in the female HD being Ms Shumann. We've had her as our HD once a couple years ago.

 

Before I forget.... Several years ago I had the chance to sit down and have a 1 on 1 conversation with Ron Botenbels, at the time the HD on Westerdam. We were talking of whom we should go to and when if we have a problem. His response was

 

1. Front Desk: Report the problem to them and give them a chance to fix the problem. Sometimes they, Front Desk Staff (Purser?) will have to contact Seattle for fixing/resolving/aiding the passenger.

 

As he told me, and I reported it in one of my reviews from 2010 or 2011, He does not have direct access to Seattle. All reports go through the Front Desk and Seattle responds to the Front Desk Staff who then attempt to help the passenger with Seattle's direction (hope that makes sense?)

 

If Step 1 does not work go to step 2

 

Step 2: Request in writing a meeting with the Hotel Director. He/she must clear up a time frame of approximately 90 minutes in his/her hectic 20+ hour day, in order to listen to the passengers' complaint.

 

After speaking with the passenger, he/she then goes about trying to resolve the problem in the nearly exact details as Step 1, contacting the Front Desk Staff, having them check with Head of whatever department the passenger is unhappy with.

 

I believe, IIRC, Ron said it can take hours, if not days, to try and reach either a happy solution (Problem fixed) or passenger placated with............

 

Joanie

 

:confused: The front desk has more authority than the HD? :confused:

 

Perhaps they have to get permission from Seattle to upgrade or move passengers with a problem stateroom. But surely they can send a plumber to the cabin to deal with the toilet issues without going up a chain of command thousands of miles away?

 

I've been lucky in that we haven't had mechanical/plumbing issues in any of the cabins we've had. But if my toilet didn't flush or overflowed, I would not want to hear "gosh that's never happened before"

 

It seems to me that when posters complain about problems with toilets, they're more annoyed at the way the front desk treated them than at the actual problem. I appreciate that the front desk staff have to put up with a lot of trivial complaints. Lack of chicken salad at the buffet would be a good example of trivia. But plumbing or mechanical issues are not trivial, and the front desk staff should be able to tell the difference.

 

Things can go wrong anywhere and at any time. What sets apart the good companies/hotels/ships is how they handle the problem.

[3rdGenCunarder]

I had toilet issues in my trip on the Veendam last month. My issues were not that it happened. My issues were with the front desk staff who did nothing and never issued an apology. It happens. It's a ship. I get it. But offer apology. Offer to make t right.do something. There are a million ways to make a customer heard and feel better about a gross situation. And my response I got from mentioning such in the survey again came with nothing except "they feel sad that I had areas I felt dissapointed in". Nope that's not an apology. And we also got nothing in response from hotel management either. It left a bad taste in an otherwise enjoyable cruise. But seriously toilet issues are gross. No water. That's bad.

 

(bold is mine) Your post pushed one of my buttons. I hate that kind of non-apology-apology. So it's YOUR fault for being unhappy that your toilet didn't work instead of THEIR fault for having plumbing problems. And are you supposed to feel sorry that your complaint made someone in Seattle sad?????

[Boytjie]

The Hotel Manager on the Odam was Mark Pells, and he was excellent.

 

Yes, agree Mark Pells is an extremely professional, personable and approachable man. We've had him as our HD once and liked him right away. So if he was refusing/unable to meet with the OP, I think there had to be extenuating circumstances we've not heard of.

 

I have sailed on two cruises with Mark Pells and he has always been great; he was around the ship a lot and approachable. After mentioning to hm that charter cruises don't get some Mariner perks like tiles, he invited me into his office and gave me a Eurodam inaugural plate. I had many interactions with him on the ship, none related to problems.

 

I agree that something odd going on for the OP to experience what was described.

[Boytjie]

I've cruised many lines and the only line I've had issues with a "non working toilet" is Hal. I wonder why if it's such a normal occurance why hasn't it happened on other lines. While for some it's perfectly acceptable to have a toilet that doesn't work a ship is not a camping trip and its not acceptable to me.

 

I have cruised on a number of cruise lines - and mostly on HAL - and have never had issues with toilets. Not saying you are wrong, just giving a different perspective.

 

I think it is disingenuous to imply that "for some it's perfectly acceptable to have a toilet that doesn't work".

[SLOTheta]

As a newbie on this board, I'm continuously shocked at how people are quick to pounce on people if they don't have shiny happy reviews. Each item, on their own, aren't show stoppers (besides the toilet), but added together, can ruin a cruise. The worst part of this all is the attitude of some of the staff and the lack of concern by the Hotel Director. Unless the OP was unhinged, the director should have taken a couple minutes to hear the guy out. It's their job to keep the ship operating efficiently and have happy customers. Things happen, it's how the management deals hiccups is what matters.

 

I appreciate the honest feedback and as with everything, take all feedback with a grain of salt. Even the positive reviews can be skewed since some people don't want to mention the down sides of their trip. I like the honesty shown in this post.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

[Wendy-Europe]

I am sorry, that you did not enjoy your cruise.

 

But it seems like we have been on different cruises - although there were some minor inconveniences through preparatory work for drydock we were really pleased with our experience.

 

We have known in advance, that the ship is going to drydock for a reason - things have to be replaced because they are worn out - so it was not unexpected to see some wear and tear.

 

We recognized some changes at the food - some of them we perceived as an upgrade, others (variety of fruits available) as a downgrade.

 

But overall we had a wonderful cruise and met interesting fellow passengers.

 

I would book the Oosterdam again....

 

Wendy

Edited April 8, 2016 by Wendy-Europe

[Wendy-Europe]

To explain: I was at the same cruise, I attended the Cruise Critics Roll Call and I was at the Mariners Lunch.

 

Whenever we met some of the officers, they were friendly, it seems they were always available for the guests.

 

The captain was at the Lido restaurant nearly every day and if someone had major complaints I think it would be possible to talk to him too.

 

Whenever I was at the Atrium near the reception there were many staff members and no lines - so each and every issue someone experienced could be solvable.

 

At my cabin the lock at the balcony door was tight - I thought to call the housekeeping - but when I returned to my room after an hour at the gym my cabin attended had arranged everything and a technician was there to repair it (without any notice of me). So my experience was, that every staffmember was very attentive - both to guest and any possible inconvenience.

 

I understand that the OP has toilet problems at his cabin - and I really understand, that this is really annoying. But I cannot believe, that nobody took care of this problem.

 

Wendy

 

Wendy

[howndder]

"Non-working toilet" can mean anything from a delayed flush to no flush to over-flowing. For a few minutes, hours, days. Doesn't pay to get into a dither until there are more details.

 

Acceptable for me (after many ships and many varying similar experiences) delay flush, no flush for a few hours, over-flowing once or even twice if it is a long cruise.

 

NO toilet flush at all for a whole day would obviously a NON-WORKING TOILET. But there is a lot of latitude in-between that we simply have gotten used to when on board any ship.

 

For me, the term "non-working toilet" needs qualification since it means all things to all people.

 

The night before I had put in 3 phone calls to Guest relations, I went to the bathroom at about 3 AM, and as I am an old man, I sit down as not to fall. I sat down onto a full toilet of water and immediately caused overflow. I was immediate soaked. So, please be kind enough to tell me if that qualifies it for you.

 

I do not care who the HD is, when I ask to see him because the Guest Relations Manager says to me she can't help me and that's she is the last link in this chain, I sort of do a boil and I believe I deserve to able to ask to see HD whoever he is. Call me crazy, but I am used to better service whether I'm on Carnival or Silverseas.

 

I would like to also point out that with 2,000 passengers, some will have a great time and some will not. I was most interested in the couple that was on the same cruise, not those of you that weren't there. I met many wonderful people on the trip, but was not prepared for poor service in any department. Just me, I don't write for other people.

 

When I complained about the way I was being treated by the "Loyalists", a number of years ago I was banned for 2 weeks. Can't understand how so many of have not been banned. Just saying. Play nice children.

 

Howard in magnificent Fort Lauderdale.

[Caribbean Chris]

Howard, I had a problem toilet once on HAL, but they always fixed it right away. An inconvenience but it happens on many cruise ships. Attend one of those lectures by the environmental officer, hear the things people do on every cruise that disrupts the plumbing, and you'll be grateful it ever works. (Not saying you caused it, but others often do.)

 

You mentioned returning to Celebrity. In a previous post you described their food as "Yuck," in the main dining room and specialty restaurants. I have not had that experience (we cruise both lines each year), but I hope you'll find satisfaction by returning to X this time.

[iancal]

I held a number of management positions, including customer services, for a large computer vendor.

 

Although I was several layers removed from the front lines, if a customer wanted to speak with me or meet with me I always made myself available. A difficult customer is never an excuse to refuse a meeting. My view was that our customers paid my salary. Without them I would not have a job, nor would any people on the team.

 

I have little patience for people who claim it is acceptable or make up some excuse why an on site manager would refuse to meet with a customer. That is a complete cop out. No one is ever too busy to meet with a customer....most especially a senior manager. At the very least just think of the example that sets for the managers below him/her and the entire ship services team.

[Tampa Girl]

As a newbie on this board, I'm continuously shocked at how people are quick to pounce on people if they don't have shiny happy reviews. Each item, on their own, aren't show stoppers (besides the toilet), but added together, can ruin a cruise. The worst part of this all is the attitude of some of the staff and the lack of concern by the Hotel Director. Unless the OP was unhinged, the director should have taken a couple minutes to hear the guy out. It's their job to keep the ship operating efficiently and have happy customers. Things happen, it's how the management deals hiccups is what matters.

 

I appreciate the honest feedback and as with everything, take all feedback with a grain of salt. Even the positive reviews can be skewed since some people don't want to mention the down sides of their trip. I like the honesty shown in this post.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

 

However, what you call "honesty", is being described by the posters as being a matter of "there are two sides to each story." In other words, one has to take both the criticisms and praise with a grain of salt. None of us who were not in his shoes (and who was!) can determine exactly how honest or objective the OP was.

[chefestelle]

I agree, SLOTheta. I had a marvellous cruise but I can guarantee the quarantined people spent some miserable days that detracted from their vacation. They were well tended but I ran into a couple of people who were sea sick and upset that they were quarantined for something they didn't have. I suspect the people in the cabins surrounded by the sewer smells for most of the trip (although not all day long) enjoyed the facilities less than I did. I know for a fact one young man disembarking could not wait to get off and said so. It was startling because I didn't want to get off! So people on the same cruise can have different experiences depending on where they are and who they deal with. It is in part how the customer delivers too, but in all my years in customer service decades ago, the customer was always right. No, a chicken salad would not ruin my trip, but a culmination of things going wrong and how they were handled - if poorly - would certainly put me off a cruise line. If it were all about chicken salad issues, I would agree with the bulk of the posters. It wasn't. Yes, things can go wrong. They handled it poorly. The proof is in the outcome.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

[OlsSalt]

The night before I had put in 3 phone calls to Guest relations, I went to the bathroom at about 3 AM, and as I am an old man, I sit down as not to fall. I sat down onto a full toilet of water and immediately caused overflow. I was immediate soaked. So, please be kind enough to tell me if that qualifies it for you.

.......

 

Thank you for your specificity which was lacking in your prior comments about a "non-working" toilet. The range of complaints about "non-working" toilets requires details. Yours were vivid. Over-flow puts it at the top of the range of complaints.

[galensgrl]

"Non-working toilet" can mean anything from a delayed flush to no flush to over-flowing. For a few minutes, hours, days. Doesn't pay to get into a dither until there are more details.

 

Acceptable for me (after many ships and many varying similar experiences) delay flush, no flush for a few hours, over-flowing once or even twice if it is a long cruise.

 

NO toilet flush at all for a whole day would obviously a NON-WORKING TOILET. But there is a lot of latitude in-between that we simply have gotten used to when on board any ship.

 

For me, the term "non-working toilet" needs qualification since it means all things to all people.

 

Your need for clarification is understandable. By "non-working" toilet, I am referring to someone reporting a toilet that overflows consistently and spewing sewage water all over the floor. A few people have reported having this happen. I guess I'm a "glass is half full" kind of gal because I know issues arise on cruise ships, and it's how they are dealt with on both sides (cruise staff & pax) that matters. On NCL we had as toilet that didn't flush properly and overflowed because someone "up the line" tried to flush a disposable diaper. Not the cruise lines fault, obviously. But they had their plumbers working on the problem, and then housekeeping came and cleaned up the pee water and disinfected the bathroom floor. Plumbing issue was fixed within the day, but during that day we didn't have a working toilet due to the larger plumbing issue. Thankfully the water didn't make it out to soak the bedroom carpet.

 

I'm not like others for whom an apology is important, especially the perfunctory, insincere kind of apology. Spare me. I'm not looking for compensation, unless I end up losing a limb or something in a freak accident that was preventable. My thing is, if I have an issue, please fix it to make sure my experience doesn't make me feel like I want to take my business elsewhere. We had our first cruise with HAL last year, and we loved it. Loved the Veendam, service was excellent, people were wonderful. Loved it so much we are going back for a 9 nighter coming up. From our past experience with HAL it is our impression that if there are any issues, they will get addressed. The staff we met, more often than not, wanted to know if they could do anything for us. And that level of service was so refreshing.

[Homer 2006]

Just came back from this cruise and I was very disappointed, did not know it was going into refit when we booked. Our cabin was below the smoking section on the lido deck and the noise was continuous 24/7. The orchestra in the crows nest was so loud it made it impossible to enjoy an evening there.

 

Seasoned cruisers maybe use to the disruptions posed by starting a refit prior to docking but we were not and it did cause a lot of inconvenience.

 

As always on a HAL cruise the staff were fantastic and we met some amazing people.

 

Also, Howard's comments were his experience and I find the comments on here derogatory and uncalled for. I appreciate people's loyalty to a cruise line but a person should be able to express themselves without having such backlash. Be kind people.

[RuthC]

Just came back from this cruise ...

Seasoned cruisers maybe use to the disruptions posed by starting a refit prior to docking but we were not and it did cause a lot of inconvenience.

Would you list out what some of these disruptions were?