Why does AZAMARA's fleet NEVER seems to GROW??!!

[Dylandude]

midwestchick,

To my knowledge, Richard Branson has put his brand to :

Aeroplanes

Trains

Virgin Media- telephone, television and wi-fi

Talking about a cruise line

 

Richard Branson is also a balloon enthusiast, but I'm struggling with his interest in High Street Travel Agents.

 

His Virgin Travel group sell Virgin packaged holidays. They are as professional and proficient as any other part of the Virgin group.

Their brochures are a bit bright and aim to promote a real holiday fun factor.

[Antonintassie]

As an Australian family who has booked there first Azamara cruise in Asia ,the access to smaller ports and overnight stays enabled by smaller ships was the significant difference between Azamara and its larger ship competitors .The price point was similar as we normally book larger suites .

Asia seems to be awash with mega ships but destination focused product is hard to find unless you want to river cruise.

I think they will continue find business in this part of the world with such a formula.

A couple of hints for Azamara however Jan,Feb and March are poor weather months for Northern Australia and Bali is "not" viewed favourably by a large section of the Australian travelling pub.

 

 

I've taken an interest in this before and for a while was worried the way Azamara was looked upon by its parent, RCCL. At a time when Celebrity and RCI were introducing brand new ships I felt that Azamara weren't a priority. I think this had a lot to do with revenue Azamara generated. I now feel they are being taken more seriously and there has been quite a bit if success in the markets, notably Australia.

 

It's a bit of a chicken and egg situation, but the recent and extensive refurbishments of the existing ships are one step. The next is a couple more ships, but new builds are some way down the line even if they sign today. Maybe 2020/21. There are ships Azamara have looked at buying, including other of the Rs, but they hadn't been well maintained. I don't have any inside knowledge, just a gut feeling, but I think we will hear something later this year. Fingers crossed! I keep hearing they won't go large.

 

Phil

[GUT2407]

if they build more I hope they stick with something around the R class size.

[Riocca]

There seems to be a number of new small ships being ordered now hopefully Azamara might follow suit?

Latest offering from Hurtigruten:

https://www.hurtigruten.co.uk/uk-press-releases/new-ships/?utm_source=hurtigruten&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=UK-PG%2bProp_new_ships_release+Copy4/26/2016&email=UK-PG%2bProp_new_ships_release+Copy4/26/2016#.Vx9CwEdmboZ

 

Announced a while ago from Saga in the UK:

http://travel.saga.co.uk/ocean-cruises/our-ships/new-ship.aspx

 

Both ship designs look good to me!

[Host Jazzbeau]

In the Cruise Critic article about Oceania's Sirena christening, there is an interesting quote from O President Frank Del Rio:

"We're done," Del Rio said. "We have four out of the eight and that's enough." He hinted that that the the next Oceania addition will be an all-new design.

So unless Carnival wants to make Pacific Princess the fathom 2, there is a possibility for Azamara to buy it.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Host Jazzbeau

[Cahpek]

In the Cruise Critic article about Oceania's Sirena christening, there is an interesting quote from O President Frank Del Rio:

"We're done," Del Rio said. "We have four out of the eight and that's enough." He hinted that that the the next Oceania addition will be an all-new design.

So unless Carnival wants to make Pacific Princess the fathom 2, there is a possibility for Azamara to buy it.

 

 

Thanks for the news. Hope Azamara will buy the remaining "R" Class ship and make that its third ship.

 

It would be beneficial to customers of both Azamara and Oceania for some competition between the two companies, wouldn't you agree?

[Cahpek]

I'm not sure that I want Azamara to expand its fleet....Sometimes expansion leads to a fall in quality and a less personal service....Competition from other companies/brands must surely be good for us passengers..?

 

I do not want Azamara to grow too quickly either but it would be sad if it does not grow at all. As any company that develops, it has to move forward and grow. Adding just one ship every 10 years or so (if it were to take on the last "R" class ship from Princess) that is by no means HUGE GROWTH!

 

One might even argue that if a company does not move forward, it will move backwards! I for one, will certainly not want Azamara to go backwards. Like many of you, I like Azamara's cruises very much too. However, we will be kidding ourselves if we think any cruise line, or company, can remain the same forever and ever, ad infinitum ! That's not realistic. Everything changes over time. Even we, ourselves, over time, we change (we get older!). The important thing is when a company changes, it is hoped that it will change for the better and improve itself even more. If Azamara does not grow and its competitors do, it will be left behind and start losing market share. Before long, it may become relatively so small that it may loose competitive advantage. In my humble opinion, everything, including good company growth, is all a matter of good BALANCE, not too much, not too little ....well, YIN AND YANG , if you wish!!!

 

PS: To reply Ebeth63, also, yes, competition is good for us passengers, but Azamara must be strong (and BIG) enough to remain competitive. Sure, if it were to grow, it is important that the quality of service remains as high. What do you think? Perhaps you might not agree?

Edited April 28, 2016 by Cahpek

[Cahpek]

I do not want Azamara to grow too quickly either but it would be sad if it does not grow at all. As any company that develops, it has to move forward and grow. Adding just one ship every 10 years or so (if it were to take on the last "R" class ship from Princess) that is by no means HUGE GROWTH!

 

One might even argue that if a company does not move forward, it will move backwards! I for one, will certainly not want Azamara to go backwards. Like many of you, I like Azamara's cruises very much too. However, we will be kidding ourselves if we think any cruise line, or company, can remain the same forever and ever, ad infinitum ! That's not realistic. Everything changes over time. Even we, ourselves, over time, we change (we get older!). The important thing is when a company changes, it is hoped that it will change for the better and improve itself even more. If Azamara does not grow and its competitors do, it will be left behind and start losing market share. Before long, it may become relatively so small that it may loose competitive advantage. In my humble opinion, everything, including good company growth, is all a matter of good BALANCE, not too much, not too little ....well, YIN AND YANG , if you wish!!!

 

PS: To reply Ebeth63, also, yes, competition is good for us passengers, but Azamara must be strong (and BIG) enough to remain competitive. Sure, if it were to grow, it is important that the quality of service remains as high. What do you think? Perhaps you might not agree?

 

I want to add that whatever we say or think of Azamara's growth , or lack of it, it is beyond the control of passengers like us,we have no say. It is up to the "Gods Above", i.e., Azamara's management, and maybe even more so, its parent holding company Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Cahpek

[excitedofharpenden]

I want to add that whatever we say or think of Azamara's growth , or lack of it, it is beyond the control of passengers like us,we have no say. It is up to the "Gods Above", i.e., Azamara's management, and maybe even more so, its parent holding company Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd.

 

I'd say Azamara guests have THE biggest influence on what happens within the brand. After all it is us who buy the cruises and affect the revenues and this directly impacts the amount of investment RCCL are prepared to make. As I said in my previous post, I believe they take it much more seriously now.

 

Phil

[midwestchick]

I'd say Azamara guests have THE biggest influence on what happens within the brand. After all it is us who buy the cruises and affect the revenues and this directly impacts the amount of investment RCCL are prepared to make. As I said in my previous post, I believe they take it much more seriously now.

 

Phil

 

 

I have to agree with this. Look at how much influence people had when asked about upgrades for the refit. Azamara asks section played a role in some of their decisions.

Edited April 28, 2016 by midwestchick

[Cahpek]

I'd say Azamara guests have THE biggest influence on what happens within the brand. After all it is us who buy the cruises and affect the revenues and this directly impacts the amount of investment RCCL are prepared to make. As I said in my previous post, I believe they take it much more seriously now.

 

Phil

 

Phil, that's encouraging to hear.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Cahpek

[Unitedflyier]

If love to see new ships. But please don't go the way of Seaborne and get bigger. Love the small and untouristy places you go.

[gnld]

I agree with most posters that I'd like to see a new build. A few years ago on the Journey, at dinner the Capt. said Azamara had looked at an acquisition (probably one of Princess' R ships) and he said "it didn't pencil out". He also said Azamara would not remain a 2-ship line. So, reading between the lines, that spells a new build. (Tho for Oceania, it obviously did "pencil out" as they bought one from Princess and its now the Sirena - and we're booked on it next June).

 

So, if it IS a new build, the question is when?? As pointed out, all other luxury and near-luxury lines are coming out with new builds or refurbs, plus a few new start-ups (Viking Ocean, Virgin, Scenic Ocean).

 

We've been on Azamara 5 times and I'd love to go on a new build from them, assuming it's not too much larger than the ~700 for the R ships. 1250 for the O class is somewhat large for me (tho my wife likes them).

 

We'll just have to wait and see. But hopefully not too long before some announcement!

[florisdekort]

So unless Carnival wants to make Pacific Princess the fathom 2, there is a possibility for Azamara to buy it.

 

 

I think Carnival would rather scrap it than help out RCI/Azamara. I'd be highly surprised if they made that sale.

[upwarduk]

HIf a ship is old enough to be scrapped, I wouldn't want to sail on her!:eek::eek:

[jollyjones]

HIf a ship is old enough to be scrapped, I wouldn't want to sail on her!:eek::eek:

 

The Pacific Princess is another one of the original R ships, just like the Journey and the Quest, altho' it is a few months older.

[sczcardfan]

I think Carnival would rather scrap it than help out RCI/Azamara. I'd be highly surprised if they made that sale.

 

Pretty sure they would look at it more as towards the benefit of their bottom line, rather than how it was helping out others.

[bob278]

We were on the Quest last year and Captain Carl addressed this in one of his Q&A sessions.

 

His point was basically two-fold when asked about the ship Princess had recently sold to Oceania.

 

First, he said that Princess would probably never do anything to help any of the RCL family of cruise lines as the competitive spirit is too fierce. If they did consider selling to Azamara, the asking price would be unreasonable. It would take a lot of profit to overcome the consequence of helping a competitor. Then he said that he would frankly not be interested in being the captain of any former Princess ship as he did not believe they took good care of their equipment.

 

Oceania obviously felt they could bring it up to their standards but he didn't think it would be reasonably cost-effective, or even possible, to bring it up to his (Azamara's) standards.

 

He said he certainly hoped there would be a new build but he wouldn't/couldn't be more specific than that.

 

Most decisions have an element of risk/reward. The risk of booking early for possibility of having your cruise cancelled because of a charter have to be considered against the advantages we all know about and we all need to make our own decision.

 

If I recall, there were about 6 or 7 cruises cancelled/changed last year because of the Quest's charter. I don't know how many had been on the books at that time, but given the typical length of cruises, I would guess no more than 25 or so on each ship. So that would be in the range of 10-15%.

 

But it isn't always a bad thing. We had booked the Quest North Cape Sept 2016 cruise b2b with a repo to Barcelona. When Sept 26 - Dec disappeared, we decided to cancel. When the new itineraries came out, we got back on the North Cape plus the next two cruises ending in Montreal (44 days)for almost $2,000 LESS than the 29 days original cruise. I know this is an exception, but I am glad they did the charter (this time - maybe next time I will also be upset).

Edited May 5, 2016 by bob278

[NorthernLite]

As an Australian family who has booked there first Azamara cruise in Asia ,the access to smaller ports and overnight stays enabled by smaller ships was the significant difference between Azamara and its larger ship competitors .The price point was similar as we normally book larger suites .

Asia seems to be awash with mega ships but destination focused product is hard to find unless you want to river cruise.

I think they will continue find business in this part of the world with such a formula.

A couple of hints for Azamara however Jan,Feb and March are poor weather months for Northern Australia and Bali is "not" viewed favourably by a large section of the Australian travelling pub.

 

The reason we sailed Azamara for our first Australia-New Zealand cruise is why you are sailing with them for Asia. We pulled into lovely small ports including several that had never seen a cruise ship when we got to New Zealand. Unfortunately, the powers that be here in the US tend to think we all want only to head to warm weather destinations especially in the colder months here. We can be in Florida or southern California after a fairly short flight if all we wanted was sunshine.

 

I do hope they stay with small ships and head to even more off the beaten seaway, say, from Gibraltor to Capetown and I would love to see more of the British Isles/Ireland area without having to deal with tenders. I could see them refitting one M-Class to use as a World Cruise platform. But they would need to scrap the new Olive Garden thing and replace the lovely European style specialty restaurant on deck 3. Enlarge many of the cabins and add more staff. Even go back to our first experience on the Galaxy in 2003 and have table side service in the main dining room.

 

BTW, our absolute favorite stop on our Down Under cruise was Hobart! We wish it had been at one end or the other so we could have explored more. I cannot imagine a S Class Celebrity ship stopping where we did without destroying the area for locals. And it was a local restaurantuer that was fully booked who sent us on to the Blue Eye where we had a wonderful 3 course meal of fantastic seafood and rather divine local white wine.

[gnld]

I think Carnival would rather scrap it than help out RCI/Azamara. I'd be highly surprised if they made that sale.

 

Well, Carnival sold the R4 to NCL/Oceania. Why not the R3 to Azamara (if Azamara is even interested)?

[excitedofharpenden]

Then he said that he would frankly not be interested in being the captain of any former Princess ship as he did not believe they took good care of their equipment.

 

Oceania obviously felt they could bring it up to their standards but he didn't think it would be reasonably cost-effective, or even possible, to bring it up to his (Azamara's) standards.

Bob, I was looking at photos the other day of Oceania Sirena (link below) and for me at least it's not to my taste. There seems to be quite a bit of furniture around the ship (MDR for instance) that is original, recovered and painted. It looks dated. It is said they spent $50M on doing her up. All I can say is that they must have had to spend a lot mechanically. I've heard mention of ship upkeep before and know that Azamara looked at one of the other R ships with a view to buying (it might have been P & O Adonia, now Fathom), but she was in such a poor state of maintenance they didn't pursue it.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/picture-gallery/travel/cruises/2016/04/30/cruise-ship-tours-oceania-cruises-sirena/83742594/

 

Phil

[bob278]

Thanks, Phil. It does look like they did a good bit of superficial changes. Things look nice but you wonder if they will hold up. I do like the showers and furniture configuration of the Penthouse Suites (AKA Club Continent Suites). I don't understand why Azamara decided to have two different versions of furniture in the cabins.

 

We prefer the shower but like the furniture in the tub cabins better. But we know that personal preferences are too varied to be met 100%. Well, we'll get to experience both over the next 10 months. We have a shower in August on the Quest and the tub on Journey to NZ next Feb. Sure wish you would join us on one of those.

[florisdekort]

Pretty sure they would look at it more as towards the benefit of their bottom line, rather than how it was helping out others.

 

 

No they won't. Carnival will never help RCI. They'll sell it to anyone else first or find a way to redeploy the ship themselves. Fathom 2 for example.

 

Floris

[Dwtlion]

The fact of life are: consider a 7 day RCI cruise on one of there 3,500 pax ships to an AZ ship. The profit from the cruise will be at least 2x Az-probably 3.5.

Now you are an RCI board member, and it's time to pick a new build. Is it going to tb a 1,200 pax or a new 3,500 ship. The decision is frankly a no- brainer.

Size and economies of scale can't be easily dismissed.

[marinaro44]

Now you are an RCI board member, and it's time to pick a new build. Is it going to tb a 1,200 pax or a new 3,500 ship.

Here's one vote for Azamara not building any 1200 passenger ships.