Tips/charges

[insanemagnet]

The auto tips was put in place when freedom dining was introduce and passengers don't have the same waiters every night.

Personally I would like the cruise price to automatically include the tips as many cruise lines already do.

And at the value they were when introduced they were "auto tips" and bore some resemblance to the amounts people gave as a tip.

 

However with the massive increase since then they have now become a Service Charge.

 

Given a free choice would the average tip given by a couple be £154 for a fortnight's cruise? I seriously doubt it.

 

For some of the bookings this would mean that the "tips" would be more than 15% of the whole cruise fare, which is absurd.

[balf]

Not in USA where 15% and more is a quite normal tip. It's true that passengers remove the tips to avoid paying what seems a big addition to the cruise price and it's beyond realistic that they pay anything like that face to face.

 

A big majority of cruisers would like them added to the overall fare. Maybe one day they will be. Maybe.

 

David.

[insanemagnet]

But P&O isn't an American cruise line...

 

The alternative to adding to the fare is to do what Costa, another Carnival company, does, and make the charge mandatory and you can't amend it.

[balf]

Not quite the case. From Costa guidelines.

 

Tipping is a personal matter, and your own judgment is the best guide. For your convenience, Costa will automatically debit your onboard account a modest service charge per person per day. Should you wish to change the amount, contact the Guest Relations Desk. Bartenders, servers, deck stewards and other staff may be tipped as service is received. For your convenience, a 15% gratuity is added to beverage purchases automatically.

 

David.

[Scorpio41]

I don't see the tips as a big addition to the cruise price but it does generate a degree of resentment amongst some passengers, I do believe it is a figure a lot higher than you would tip in any other situation.

As has been said when it was first introduced it was a tip and more in line with what passengers were already tipping. Once it became a service charge the amount has increased substantially.

 

Adding it to the cruise price wouldn't increase the cost by a great deal and after a time would just become acceptable. It works for other cruise lines so why not P&O?

If passengers still want to tip individuals for good service then they should be able to.

[Josy1953]

Is the reason for the substantial increase the number of people who are reducing or removing the service charge ? If so those of us who are leaving it on are subsidising the passengers who are removing it. I very much doubt that we will ever know from P&O whether or not they are increasing the charge in order to attain a certain level of income but this is the main reason that I would like to see it included in the cost of the cruise or else made unchangeable on the onboard statement.

[RJChatsworth]

I note under the offers you can get a cabin for two people for as little as about £1,000. If you take out all the salaried staff, captain and officers, chief engineer and his staff, the purser and his staff, the entertainment director and their staff, the expensive diesel oil, port fees, HQ staff in port adding to cost of running a ship, the tugs and the pilots, depreciation and costs towards refurbishment, then out of the £1,000 you are left with about, for argument's sake, about £200 towards the hotel costs (cabins and restaurants plus staff including chefs). The auto tips on a cabin for two for 7 days amount to £77, which is a rate of nearly 40% for those receiving the tips, but there must be some in the hotel department not in receipt of tips. Therefore we are probably paying nearer 50% of the costs where the tips are distributed.

 

This seems extraordinarily high so is the auto tip being used towards the total running costs of the ship?

 

Discuss.

[amajaa]

Is the reason for the substantial increase the number of people who are reducing or removing the service charge ? If so those of us who are leaving it on are subsidising the passengers who are removing it. I very much doubt that we will ever know from P&O whether or not they are increasing the charge in order to attain a certain level of income but this is the main reason that I would like to see it included in the cost of the cruise or else made unchangeable on the onboard statement.

 

Well judging by the number of people on here and on Facebook who say they remove the tips I was thinking the same as you that it is going up so we can subsidize all those that remove them. I would also like to see it included in the cost.

[terrierjohn]

And at the value they were when introduced they were "auto tips" and bore some resemblance to the amounts people gave as a tip.

 

However with the massive increase since then they have now become a Service Charge.

 

Given a free choice would the average tip given by a couple be £154 for a fortnight's cruise? I seriously doubt it.

 

For some of the bookings this would mean that the "tips" would be more than 15% of the whole cruise fare, which is absurd.

Your maths is probably right but you are only comparing the lowest cabin grade at the cheapest saver fare, for those in balconies and above the oncost is quite a bit lower.

Perhaps you are assuming that if tips were included in the cruise fare it would be pro-rated across all cabin grades, meaning that lowly insides would pay far less.

Some might argue this is only fair, others will say that all passengers receive the same service so should therefore pay the same.

This could be one reason why cruise lines retain the tipping system for paying stewards and waiters.

[davecttr]

Is the reason for the substantial increase the number of people who are reducing or removing the service charge ? If so those of us who are leaving it on are subsidising the passengers who are removing it. I very much doubt that we will ever know from P&O whether or not they are increasing the charge in order to attain a certain level of income but this is the main reason that I would like to see it included in the cost of the cruise or else made unchangeable on the onboard statement.

 

P&O won't be admitting it but I suspect this is the case. They do claim ALL the auto tip goes to the staff so it would be very bad for them if we found out they were telling porkies.

[kruzseeka]

P&O won't be admitting it but I suspect this is the case. They do claim ALL the auto tip goes to the staff so it would be very bad for them if we found out they were telling porkies.

 

 

It seems to me that given the popularity of cruising these days this topic would be a good subject for an investigative journalism type TV exposé - not just P&O but other cruise lines too. How wages are set, tipping policies, % passengers who opt out, how they are distributed etc. I would certainly be very interested to know though whether that would change my choice of company or personal approach to tipping I don't know but getting to know the facts (supposing they can be unearthed/believed) may give me pause for thought.

Edited May 23, 2016 by kruzseeka

[insanemagnet]

I note under the offers you can get a cabin for two people for as little as about £1,000.

...

The auto tips on a cabin for two for 7 days amount to £77, which is a rate of nearly 40% for those receiving the tips

 

Actually you can occasionally get a cabin for two for 14 days for a total cost of around £1000.

 

This would push your maths up to a figure of 80%, and clearly shows that the Service Charge is simply just another source of income for P&O and has nothing to do with being a 'tip'.

 

P&O won't be admitting it but I suspect this is the case. They do claim ALL the auto tip goes to the staff so it would be very bad for them if we found out they were telling porkies.

 

If the fixed salaries of the waiters and stewards is paid out of the Service Charge then that statement is true.

 

P&O would only be not telling the truth if the amount of the Service Charge they collect was more than the wages bill.

Edited May 23, 2016 by insanemagnet

[Ginb56]

...and not forgetting the newly introduced 50p p.h. 'living wage' which probably applies to many of the staff on low wages, so maybe our grats are subsidising that. Rather coincidential that the grats have gone up 50p a night at the same time roughly that the living wage came in. Call me a synic...

[Scorpio41]

P&O won't be admitting it but I suspect this is the case. They do claim ALL the auto tip goes to the staff so it would be very bad for them if we found out they were telling porkies.

 

It would be nice if P&O would come out and give us a definitive answer. I'm sure it would help people make a more informed decision as to whether they leave on or remove the tips.

 

The waiters on freedom dining will miss out on any tips if the service charge is removed by passengers. You still only have the one cabin steward.

 

Do some remove one passengers and leave the service charge on for the second?

 

If you remove tips completely do you part tip at the beginning of the cruise or wait till the end?

[daiB]

It would be nice if P&O would come out and give us a definitive answer. I'm sure it would help people make a more informed decision as to whether they leave on or remove the tips.

 

 

 

The waiters on freedom dining will miss out on any tips if the service charge is removed by passengers. You still only have the one cabin steward.

 

 

 

Do some remove one passengers and leave the service charge on for the second?

 

 

 

If you remove tips completely do you part tip at the beginning of the cruise or wait till the end?

 

 

How many times do the company have to come out and say where the money goes to its on the web site and has been posted on the P&O FB site at least twice.

 

But of course some on here would not accept it whatever they said.

 

Perhaps they should move to Celebrity where they are going up to $13.50 and $17.00

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

Edited May 23, 2016 by daiB

[daiB]

Just get rid of tips and increase the fare.

[Florry]

Is the reason for the substantial increase the number of people who are reducing or removing the service charge ? If so those of us who are leaving it on are subsidising the passengers who are removing it. I very much doubt that we will ever know from P&O whether or not they are increasing the charge in order to attain a certain level of income but this is the main reason that I would like to see it included in the cost of the cruise or else made unchangeable on the onboard statement.

 

 

I have thought this for some time, it's not clear how they deal with the shortfall when tips are removed, does this just affect the crew serving those particular passengers? Is the 'pot' simply shared equally? Who subsidises shortfall or do the crew simply get a lower amount? I don't think we will ever know. I leave tips on despite hardly using MDR and paying a supplement for speciality. I've just come to view it as a part of the cost of the cruise and live with it. I'm not sure why everyone gets so upset about the subject when there are still options to tip according to your preference, even if that preference is not to tip at all. I think that many of the points raised are very valid whichever side of the fence you sit on, there just don't seem to be right or wrong answers. If tips are incorporated into the cost I think there would be tax implications as it would be treated as income for P&O and salary for crew, depending on the tax regime that applies - potentially they would have to increase the cost by more than £5.50 pppn to account for the additional tax. I've given up worrying about it - so much assumption and misinformation all we do on the forum is spin around in circles getting grumpy about something we can't change - other people's free choice when making a discretionary payment, which is what a gratuity is.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Florry

[laticmon]

As I understand, there is no minimum wage in Bermuda which is where the ships are registered, so the increase can't be related to that. As one poster has already mentioned the tips on the American Cruise lines that sail out of the U.K. are around £10 pppd so the P&O charge is IMO reasonable. We have our 15yo with us on our August cruise and I did think that it may be unfair that he is charged the same rate as us, until I realised that he will use exactly the same facilities on board. I will leave the auto tips in place for this reason

[insanemagnet]

How many times do the company have to come out and say where the money goes to its on the web site and has been posted on the P&O FB site at least twice.

 

But of course some on here would not accept it whatever they said.

 

That is just a cleverly worded statement that is designed to make you think it says something it doesn't.

 

If P&O actually said the Service Charge was used to pay the wages bill, rather than pretend it is a 'tip' would people be as content to pay it. Judging by the outrage when several large restaurant chains were caught doing that, I strongly doubt it.

[balf]

 

 

 

Do some remove one passengers and leave the service charge on for the second?

 

 

 

If you remove tips completely do you part tip at the beginning of the cruise or wait till the end?

 

 

Obviously you wait until as late as possible before removing all the tips. Also you don't use the MD on the last night. That way you award yourself a nice little bonus. As they say "better in my pocket than theirs"

 

David.

[daiB]

That is just a cleverly worded statement that is designed to make you think it says something it doesn't.

 

If P&O actually said the Service Charge was used to pay the wages bill, rather than pretend it is a 'tip' would people be as content to pay it. Judging by the outrage when several large restaurant chains were caught doing that, I strongly doubt it.

 

 

I am talking of the one which says 100% of auto tips goes to the crew. The ones mentioned. ie. Steward, waiters in MDR restaurant manager and butlers.. That has been posted at least twice.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

[insanemagnet]

I am talking of the one which says 100% of auto tips goes to the crew. The ones mentioned. ie. Steward, waiters in MDR restaurant manager and butlers.. That has been posted at least twice.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

Yes, 100% of the Service Charge goes to the steward, waiters, etc, but P&O don't say that it goes to them on top of their wages. Using it to pay those staff, 100% still goes to them.

 

If it was in addition to their wages, why has the Service Charge risen 39% in two years?

 

Have P&O cut their wages by the same amount? Does P&O have difficulty recruiting staff and this is to solve the problem?

 

Or is it more likely that as many land based restaurant chains did, they realised that most people don't like to kick up a fuss about a Service Charge added to their bill, and simply used the money to pay the staff.

 

Meanwhile they can either reduce the headline price of the cruise by the same amount as the Service Charge increase and sell more cruises, or keep the price the same and increase the profit margin.

[HikingPete]

Yes, 100% of the Service Charge goes to the steward, waiters, etc, but P&O don't say that it goes to them on top of their wages. Using it to pay those staff, 100% still goes to them.

 

If it was in addition to their wages, why has the Service Charge risen 39% in two years?

 

Have P&O cut their wages by the same amount? Does P&O have difficulty recruiting staff and this is to solve the problem?

 

Or is it more likely that as many land based restaurant chains did, they realised that most people don't like to kick up a fuss about a Service Charge added to their bill, and simply used the money to pay the staff.

 

Meanwhile they can either reduce the headline price of the cruise by the same amount as the Service Charge increase and sell more cruises, or keep the price the same and increase the profit margin.

 

I suspect that there are many reasons as to why the charge has increased, not least which will be that some people will immediately remove the charge from their account and not tip. If this causes a significant reduction in the amount of money which goes to staff, working on the ships becomes less desirable. So the choice is, lose staff, or increase gratuity.

[jeanlyon]

I am sure they are queuing up to work for P&O at their base in India. The wages are so much better than they get at home even though to us they will be poor. If I remove the auto tip, then I do it on Day one and use an envelope on the last day for my waiters and cabin steward. I have never found it a problem. The only time I left them on was when I had a large amount of OBC which I knew we would not use.

 

What on earth would be the advantage of leaving them on until late in the cruise and then removing them?

[bee-ess]

As I understand, there is no minimum wage in Bermuda which is where the ships are registered, so the increase can't be related to that. As one poster has already mentioned the tips on the American Cruise lines that sail out of the U.K. are around £10 pppd so the P&O charge is IMO reasonable. We have our 15yo with us on our August cruise and I did think that it may be unfair that he is charged the same rate as us, until I realised that he will use exactly the same facilities on board. I will leave the auto tips in place for this reason

 

Maybe the charge, however it is worded, should be per cabin ? I don't think under 18's should pay.

Although we auto tip, I think on all cruise lines that we are just subsidising the wages.

Although the US lines are more expensive tips, the last 2 times on Celebrity we have had tips included in the offer from the TA. I have just looked at the invoice for our Sept cruise and the tips if we had payed them are £233 for a 2 week cruise for 2 of us, didn't realise they were that much.

Edited May 24, 2016 by bee-ess