Tips/charges

[BrianI]

It does have an affect on staff wages where the ship is registered. Commodore Christopher Rynd was asked only last week why Queen Victoria was registered in Bermuda and his reply was for 2 reasons. One was so that all Cunard ships can offer weddings which they cannot if registered in the UK and secondly more important, his words not mine, so they can compete in the world without the shackles of UK/Euro laws i.e. level of wages paid to staff.

Britannia is registered in Southampton. Are you saying the wages on Britannia are higher than the Bermuda registered ships?

Brian

[insanemagnet]

and secondly more important, his words not mine, so they can compete in the world without the shackles of UK/Euro laws i.e. level of wages paid to staff.

 

Did he add the "i.e." section or did you.

[majortom10]

Britannia is registered in Southampton. Are you saying the wages on Britannia are higher than the Bermuda registered ships?

Brian

 

I am not saying anything just repeating what the Commodore said in his interview and Q&As on Queen Victoria last week. If you want my honest opinion watch this space and soon registration of Britannia will be changed to Bermuda.

[balf]

Let's move with the times and assume everyone who goes to reception takes their tips off and doesn't pay them, an equally ridiculous concept.

 

 

There are plenty of examples of passengers posting here who are quite willing to admit that they remove the auto tips. Do you really think they then put the equivalent amount in the envelopes?

 

David.

[jeanlyon]

There are plenty of examples of passengers posting here who are quite willing to admit that they remove the auto tips. Do you really think they then put the equivalent amount in the envelopes?

 

David.

 

Well I can't speak for others, but I do - yes. I don't disagree with the tips, just the way they are added to the bill and still called tips? It's a service charge, so I will continue to tip they way I always have.

[balf]

I am not saying anything just repeating what the Commodore said in his interview and Q&As on Queen Victoria last week. If you want my honest opinion watch this space and soon registration of Britannia will be changed to Bermuda.

 

 

Very true, because of all the P&O ships Britannia must have by far the greatest potential for weddings and as per size the greatest savings be shipping out to Bermuda.

 

David.

[balf]

So I am going to remove the auto tip as we have two cabins for a family of 4. Just hope I don't come back the room one night with a horse's head on the pillow or a carefully placed curly black hair on the bed!!!

 

 

You may well get a horses head, even a full horse if you're lucky, on your pillow, or a giraffe, hippo or even a snake. Thing is they'll all be white.

 

David.

[pisces14]

I think we should be honest and accept that when removing the auto tips the main reason is to save money. The fact that it is so easy to fill in a form or whatever and save, for a couple, £154 on a 14 night cruise is why so many join the queue. Does that couple, who really prefer to tip face to face really hand out seventy plus quid in the little envelope? Really?

 

David.

 

I agree. Since auto-tipping came in we have never removed them. We also have tipped the butler, cabin steward, waiter, wine waiter and even other staff extra. NEVER again! I am so sick of reading on forums the pathetic excuses as to why people want to remove tips. The ONLY reason they do is to save money and I won't EVER be subsidising them again.

[peteukmcr]

I agree. Since auto-tipping came in we have never removed them. We also have tipped the butler, cabin steward, waiter, wine waiter and even other staff extra. NEVER again! I am so sick of reading on forums the pathetic excuses as to why people want to remove tips. The ONLY reason they do is to save money and I won't EVER be subsidising them again.

Sir/Madam, I salute you and totally agree with you. There is only 1 reason why people remove tips and that 1 reason alone is to save money and as my US friends say is to 'stiff the staff'. I don't care what excuses people give, they are cheapskates and especially as P&O has one of the least expensive service charges around at £5.50 pppn. As many other of my US friends say, if you can't afford to tip the recommended amount, don't cruise.

[kruzseeka]

That is not true! And rather offensive. peteukmcr - you may believe it but you don't know that to be the case. You clearly make up your mind and don't consider you could be wrong and there may be some out here who are honest and have scruples when deciding what they feel is right for them.

 

We recently had an auto grats charge of £350 for our cruise. We left 50% on and removed the rest. We then tipped our cabin steward, waiters and wine steward by amounts that then exceeded the £350. So your premise that people only do it to pay less does not apply to everyone.

 

The reason we chose to do this is because we are so confused about how the tips are distributed and as has been indicated on this thread from the P&O quote, it seems the gratuities may well be spread rather further than we thought. One passenger with a lot of experience confidently told us it was pretty much across the board! I'm not prepared to believe that any more than any other scenario but in the confusion we do want to know those who have served us well do receive most of what we have paid. We were Freedom Dining too and had a number of different waiters but went to one table fairly often so we tipped those guys at the end too. Yes we'd missed out those who only served us once or twice but we hoped the auto grats we had paid would include them.

 

I also recognise that there are some behind the scenes who may well be deserving of some recognition but the waters are so muddy around this whole area I can't see a solution as things stand. Do you pay an across the board service charge which is split between....... well who is it split between? Do you tip those with whom you have direct contact ie have served you? How does that work in terms of those who serve you just once in passing as compared with daily service? The inconsistencies are endless and potentially unfair to both crew and passengers whilst some pay and others don't.

 

I hold my head up peteukmcr - your sweeping generalisation does not apply to me (and I'm sure to some others too although I feel sure it is true for some) and I reserve the right to distribute any tips/service charges whatever it may be in a way I see fit to try to ensure we reward the direct services we receive as well as some we don't see.

 

I maintain the fairest way is to include it in the cruise price. Given that some remove the grats and don't pay anything or less than the recommended amount, if 100% paid because it was in the cruise price, P&O probably could levy a lower rate than currently for the same returns. I wonder if £25 p.w/passenger would do it? Even at £35 week added to the advertised cruise price, do they seriously think that will make a difference to bookings? I know they have to be competitive but I think they are and wouldn't 'Tips Included' be a good selling point? I think so. And what's more I think their crew would be happy too. They will probably get some tips as well.

[jenny wren]

Well said Kruzeeka.....that is exactly how we feel and what we do/did on our recent cruise!

 

It certainly works well on Thomson cruises and as you say would be a huge selling point for P & O.....however it's Carnival perhaps who set the rules! :)

[terrierjohn]

kruzseeka, I feel fairly sure there are some passengers who do as you say you do, but I think the majority that remove or reduce the auto tip do so to cut costs.

Even so the muddy waters of the tipping saga may not be providing you with the certainty that you are tipping those who have served you best. Lots of rumours suggest that where passengers have removed the auto tip, then staff have to hand over any tips they receive to go into the general pool, only tips given on top of the auto tip can be kept by the recipient.

This, or similar, has been reported so many times that there might be more than a grain of truth in it.

As to your supposition that adding it to the cruise fare might in fact reduce the rate, I think this is very unlikely. Even if this changed procedure did not lead to the cruise lines adding an overhead uplift to the charge, which I believe is highly likely, I cannot see the amount added being a penny less than the current auto-tip.

For my own part, whilst I do not mind giving a little extra personally to some staff although always discreetly, I find the practise of openly handing envelopes to waiters on the last night in the MDR to be extremely demeaning to the waiters and only serves to stroke the ego of the giver.

For myself I am reasonably happy that cruise lines probably pass all these "tips" onto their staff and, since I have no idea about their pay levels, I have to assume it is fairly apportioned.

So I will continue to leave the auto tip intact, and add extra when I think it is warranted.

[peteukmcr]

That is not true! And rather offensive. peteukmcr - you may believe it but you don't know that to be the case. You clearly make up your mind and don't consider you could be wrong and there may be some out here who are honest and have scruples when deciding what they feel is right for them.

 

We recently had an auto grats charge of £350 for our cruise. We left 50% on and removed the rest. We then tipped our cabin steward, waiters and wine steward by amounts that then exceeded the £350. So your premise that people only do it to pay less does not apply to everyone.

 

I hold my head up peteukmcr - your sweeping generalisation does not apply to me (and I'm sure to some others too although I feel sure it is true for some) and I reserve the right to distribute any tips/service charges whatever it may be in a way I see fit to try to ensure we reward the direct services we receive as well as some we don't see.

 

Maybe it doesn't apply to everyone, but it applies to a lot of people. There are many keyboard warriors out there that brag of removing them, there are many who refuse to pay for children. If that isn't to save money, and stiff the staff I don't know what is.

 

Check out the line at guest relations, check out the empty chairs in the MDR on the last night. Yes, people maybe doing something else at Guest Relations, yes, they may not want to eat in the MDR on the last evening.

 

Maybe, but I've read enough reports of why there is a line at Guest Relations and why the MDR is not full on the last night. This used to happen when you still handed out tips in envelopes on the last night. I've shared tables were people have bragged about not tipping and that they won't be in the MDR on the last night. That's one of the reasons why I now choose to dine at a time of my choosing on a table for two so that I don't have to listen to that bragging.

 

I won't apologise for my views, you have yours and I have mine. If you have been offended, then sorry. I am just airing my view which is simple, pay the auto grats, which ensures the staff are rewarded for looking after every single soul on board, that includes children who also eat, sleep, shower and create rubbish to be cleared, just like an adult. There is no excuse for removing grats for children, nor anyone IMHO, an opinion to which I am entitled.

 

I wouldn't mind, but as I've said before, P&O have one of the lowest amounts pppd of any line I know. £5.50, Celebrity have just raised theirs to match RCL & NCL to $13.50 pppd (£9.20). Even more if you're in a suite.

 

It's cheap on P&O, even more reason not to remove them.

[Nikkipink]

I do not understand the logic behind people saying they are not paying tips for their children.

 

These children eat somewhere and need clearing up after, they sleep in beds that need making and have special entertainment and facilities so to say people are not tipping for children is quite harsh, IMO. They use many facilities and are waited on and are very well looked after and therefore tips should be paid for them.

[peteukmcr]

I do not understand the logic behind people saying they are not paying tips for their children.

 

These children eat somewhere and need clearing up after, they sleep in beds that need making and have special entertainment and facilities so to say people are not tipping for children is quite harsh, IMO. They use many facilities and are waited on and are very well looked after and therefore tips should be paid for them.

Totally agree, but search these boards and social media and you'll see many people complaining that they have to pay grats for kids. They justify it in some cases with a sob story as how they've worked hard to pay for the cruise, then they are hit with a 'bill' for grats for mum, dad, gran, granddad and their 3 kids. So for a 14 night sailings that's £77 pp, or £539 total. Yes, it's a lot but others are paying that, and you or your TA should have been aware of the added costs. In this example they'd save £231 by not paying for their kids. That's a chunk of money saved to spend at the bar!

 

Well I tell them, it's not just them who's worked hard for a cruise, so do we, but we budget to include the grats, that's the knack, budget!

[Jason12]

And so the mud flinging starts, oh well it was a good debate until then..

 

 

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Edited May 27, 2016 by Jason12

[sianjane1]

I must admit that I am shocked at people's views on this. I shall remember not to talk about it whilst on my first cruise I wouldn't want to ruin my time away.

 

 

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[insanemagnet]

There is only 1 reason why people remove tips

 

Or more correctly people are choosing not to pay a Service Charge that P&O says is discretionary.

[majortom10]

Like I have said many times before how many people go on holiday to an hotel and leave tips of £5-50 per person (including children) for every night of their holiday very few if any at all why would or should a cruise be different staff in hotels either front of house or behind the scenes work just as hard. Just for information a family of 4 (2 adults, 2 children) in a hotel for 14 nts how many leave a tip/gratuity of £308 very few if any at all I should imagine.

[kruzseeka]

Maybe it doesn't apply to everyone, but it applies to a lot of people. There are many keyboard warriors out there that brag of removing them, there are many who refuse to pay for children. If that isn't to save money, and stiff the staff I don't know what is.

 

Check out the line at guest relations, check out the empty chairs in the MDR on the last night. Yes, people maybe doing something else at Guest Relations, yes, they may not want to eat in the MDR on the last evening.

 

Maybe, but I've read enough reports of why there is a line at Guest Relations and why the MDR is not full on the last night. This used to happen when you still handed out tips in envelopes on the last night. I've shared tables were people have bragged about not tipping and that they won't be in the MDR on the last night. That's one of the reasons why I now choose to dine at a time of my choosing on a table for two so that I don't have to listen to that bragging.

 

I won't apologise for my views, you have yours and I have mine. If you have been offended, then sorry. I am just airing my view which is simple, pay the auto grats, which ensures the staff are rewarded for looking after every single soul on board, that includes children who also eat, sleep, shower and create rubbish to be cleared, just like an adult. There is no excuse for removing grats for children, nor anyone IMHO, an opinion to which I am entitled.

 

I wouldn't mind, but as I've said before, P&O have one of the lowest amounts pppd of any line I know. £5.50, Celebrity have just raised theirs to match RCL & NCL to $13.50 pppd (£9.20). Even more if you're in a suite.

 

It's cheap on P&O, even more reason not to remove them.

 

And I respect your right to your opinion which may indeed be largely the case. I only take issue with you assuming everyone's reason for altering the autograts stems from penny-pinching. I only seek to explain why we, and some others, may have different motives and how we came to the decision we did - flawed as it might be.

When we weren't Freedom Dining we left them on (and tipped a little extra where appropriate) but I still think the lack of clarity regarding the distribution of tips and the ability to remove them is causing a great deal of unfairness.

[kruzseeka]

kruzseeka,

 

As to your supposition that adding it to the cruise fare might in fact reduce the rate, I think this is very unlikely. Even if this changed procedure did not lead to the cruise lines adding an overhead uplift to the charge, which I believe is highly likely, I cannot see the amount added being a penny less than the current auto-tip.

QUOTE]

 

I'm sure you are right but the maths should indicate a lesser amount.

If everyone pays autograts at £5.50 p.p./day the income from this would be.............whatever. If any/many people reduce or remove the autograts then the amount raised is less. To maintain the status quo in terms of tipping income theoretically P&O should be able to reduce the daily rate before rolling it into the cost to make it a 'tips included' cruise price. If they apply £5.50 p.p./day into the cruise price - they will be making a profit on current tipping revenue if, as we believe, quite a lot of people are paying nothing.

But I feel sure they would stick with the £5.50 rate - why wouldn't they? Hopefully though that would be reflected in greater remuneration for the staff.

[Esprit]

So if cabin stewards on ships deserve tips why don't cabin stewards on planes get them?

 

On a 15 hour flight I seen aircraft stewards work really hard in cramped conditions with often unhappy tired passengers and all they get is a cursory nod from the passengers as they leave the plane.

[jeanlyon]

I agree to it being a really poor generalisation. We sail with a friend and we also have other friends who cruise. We all remove the autograts and tip with an envelope. We all tip exactly what we should have tipped on the autograt. It's not the amount, it's the principle of having it added to one's account.

 

Next cruise with Fred, our tips are included which is the way I see it going. We are also going to sail on voyager and again, tips included. We would still give an extra tip in an envelope, because that's what we like to do.

 

I tip my hairdresser, a taxi driver and in a restaurant. In the restaurant if the service charge is included, I remove it and tip personally. A tip is something freely given for good service, not a charge added to the bloody bill!

Edited May 27, 2016 by jeanlyon

[pisces14]

I agree to it being a really poor generalisation. We sail with a friend and we also have other friends who cruise. We all remove the autograts and tip with an envelope. We all tip exactly what we should have tipped on the autograt. It's not the amount, it's the principle of having it added to one's account.

 

Next cruise with Fred, our tips are included which is the way I see it going. We are also going to sail on voyager and again, tips included. We would still give an extra tip in an envelope, because that's what we like to do.

 

I tip my hairdresser, a taxi driver and in a restaurant. In the restaurant if the service charge is included, I remove it and tip personally. A tip is something freely given for good service, not a charge added to the bloody bill!

 

This is what I think P&O should do. Include the gratuities in the price of a cruise. It's the only fair way and it would prevent those of us who pay the gratuities subsidising other people's holidays. No-one ever subsidised mine. If I couldn't afford the gratuities I wouldn't cruise. There really is no valid reason in my opinion for anyone to remove them. The problem lies with the fact that P&O allow them to be removed and people use the excuse that they are discretionary.

[Jason12]

I like the idea of grads included in the price but how would it be before envelopes started to reappear if we went this way..?

 

 

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