Jump to content
Cruise Critic Community

Dog on ship

plaeger606
 Share

Recommended Posts

payitforward

payitforward

Posted
Posted (edited)
"Any person who intentionally interferes with the use of a guide, signal, or service dog or mobility aid by harassing or obstructing is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail up to 6 months, or fine of not less than $1,500 nor more than $2,500, or both.

West’s Ann. Cal. Penal Code § 365.6"

If you want to question or harass the owner of the dog, you need to be aware of interpretations of the laws like above. If you intentionally harass and interfere with the use of a support dog, you could be guilty of a misdemeanor.

MYOB. Just like with breastfeeding, you cannot harass the mother.... public acommodation means the person has the right to freely enjoy the public space. Questioning an owner of a service dog IS harassment when it is none of your business.

"Anyone who denies or interferes with admittance to or enjoyment of the public facilities or otherwise interferes with the rights of an individual with a disability is liable for each offense for the actual damages up to a maximum of 3 times the amount of actual damages, but in no case less than $1,000, and attorney’s fees.

“Interfere,” for purposes of this section, includes, but is not limited to, preventing or causing the prevention of a guide dog, signal dog, or service dog from carrying out its functions in assisting a disabled person.

West’s Ann. Cal. Civ. Code § 54.3"

 

Nowhere in the first paragraph is the word "support" included in reference to any animals. It very specifically used the words: "guide, signal, or service dog or mobility aids." In order to be included in the ADA guidelines, an animal has to be trained to provide a specific service to the person with the disability. "Offering comfort" is not a SPECIFIC service for which these animals are trained. Therefore, telling people it is a misdemeanor to interfere with support animals is incorrect.

I'd like to weigh in as someone who has both PTSD and Major Depressive Disorder. I also sit on a number of boards and work with many individuals who have mental health disorders. So far, NONE of these people have ever showed up in a public place with their "support animals." On the very rare occasion that I am really struggling, I may not leave my home, or the emotional support my pet offers. However, I would NEVER take that pet out into a public place. First, it would be a disservice to my pet. Second, if I'm already struggling to that degree, the LAST thing I need to do is add additional pressure by exposing myself and my pet to scrutiny, or exposing others - who may be allergic - to my pet. I have yet to see a person with a true, diagnosed mental illness who cannot leave their home without the comfort of an "emotional support animal." 99.9% of the people claiming to need one are simply people who don't WANT to leave their PET. Note: In the case of a war vet with a true PTSD SERVICE animal, the animal is trained to take a specific action under a specific set of circumstances. It is a SERVICE, not a support animal.

Edited by payitforward
Link to comment
Share on other sites
payitforward

payitforward

Posted
Posted
I found a cruise for 2019 on Princess that I want to book. I had my TA call, while I was on the line, and see about the exact cabin I wanted, it was an accessible cabin, the cost etc. When my TA mentioned the cabin number the agent went into a spiel about it was accessible and was I in a wheelchair. My TA replied that I used a walker and cane full time, and on most cruises rented a scooter. The rep proceeded to tell my TA that I could be removed from the cabin if someone needed it for their wheelchair.

 

I then mentioned that I have a handicapped designation by three of my physicians and there was no way they could move me out of that room. I explained I can't step up into the bathroom, I need a larger shower, so I can sit when taking one. The rep, again stated she couldn't guarantee that the cabin wouldn't be taken from me.

 

I reserved the cabin and then immediately called the corporate office and spoke with a executive rep who told me that the cabin would not be taken away from me.

 

Sorry, I know this has nothing to do with the dog, but this really made me mad and I felt the need to vent.

 

I feel you! I normally walk on my own, but do need scooters for all of the walking required on a ship. I specifically tell them "I do not need all of the adaptions of a handicapped cabin, but just need room to park my scooter." (Translation: If someone is worse off than I am, give them the handicapped cabin, and give me a place to park.) However, when I travel with a friend who is worse off than I am, we have found that many hotels, etc, don't offer things like roll-in showers, shower seats or elevated toilets. They think that just having enough room for a wheelchair makes a room "accessible."

Link to comment
Share on other sites
spleenstomper

spleenstomper

Posted
Posted

How do you determine if it is an emotional or working dog when you can't ask for a diagnosis? Suppose you ask someone who is using an emotional support dog what job it is trained to do, and the person lies and says "alert blood sugar drops"... how can you prove or disprove that?

 

You can't and on the chance the person has a medical diagnosis for which the service dog is trained, you are now harassing that person if you pursue questioning.

 

This is the reason why people take advantage of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
bUU

bUU

Posted
Posted (edited)
... how can you prove or disprove that?You can't ...
Precisely and you're not supposed to. The harm from whatever abuse is an order of magnitude smaller than the harm from the abridgement of the civil right that would result in the alternative.

 

One of the best ideas to address such situations is mainstreaming: Craft accommodations in such a manner that those who have the need have accommodation but the accommodation provides no advantage over others. (Accommodation is not advantage.) Walt Disney World does this quite well. It just requires creativity, nuanced intelligence, and sensitivity.

Edited by bUU
Link to comment
Share on other sites
spleenstomper

spleenstomper

Posted
Posted
Precisely and you're not supposed to. The harm from whatever abuse is an order of magnitude smaller than the harm from the abridgement of the civil right that would result in the alternative.

 

One of the best ideas to address such situations is mainstreaming: Craft accommodations in such a manner that those who have the need have accommodation but the accommodation provides no advantage over others. (Accommodation is not advantage.) Walt Disney World does this quite well. It just requires creativity, nuanced intelligence, and sensitivity.

 

Exactly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ocean Dancer

Ocean Dancer

Posted
Posted
Nowhere in the first paragraph is the word "support" included in reference to any animals. It very specifically used the words: "guide, signal, or service dog or mobility aids." In order to be included in the ADA guidelines, an animal has to be trained to provide a specific service to the person with the disability. "Offering comfort" is not a SPECIFIC service for which these animals are trained. Therefore, telling people it is a misdemeanor to interfere with support animals is incorrect.

I'd like to weigh in as someone who has both PTSD and Major Depressive Disorder. I also sit on a number of boards and work with many individuals who have mental health disorders. So far, NONE of these people have ever showed up in a public place with their "support animals." On the very rare occasion that I am really struggling, I may not leave my home, or the emotional support my pet offers. However, I would NEVER take that pet out into a public place. First, it would be a disservice to my pet. Second, if I'm already struggling to that degree, the LAST thing I need to do is add additional pressure by exposing myself and my pet to scrutiny, or exposing others - who may be allergic - to my pet. I have yet to see a person with a true, diagnosed mental illness who cannot leave their home without the comfort of an "emotional support animal." 99.9% of the people claiming to need one are simply people who don't WANT to leave their PET. Note: In the case of a war vet with a true PTSD SERVICE animal, the animal is trained to take a specific action under a specific set of circumstances. It is a SERVICE, not a support animal.

Thank you for your service!!

usa-american-flag-waving-animated-gif-22.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Truluv

Truluv

Posted
Posted

I was on Holland America in May (Alaska), and there were 2 or 3 service dogs on board. They were well-behaved and stayed with particular passengers for the week. They were very visible all week, all over the ship. I didn't hear any complaints or criticisms from anyone about them.

 

This thread reminded me a little of an incident that crushed one of my parents. My Mom had experimental lung surgery during WWII, which left her with one lung. She was unable to walk very far due to breathing limitations, but was fiercely independent and fought going on oxygen. Eventually my Mom had to start using her handicapped tag on her car, since she was unable to walk very far even though she appeared to be healthy if someone just looked at her. The first time my Mom used the handicapped tag, someone attacked her verbally in the parking lot for having the nerve to park in a handicapped spot since she was healthy. My Mom didn't want to share the details of her medical condition with a stranger to justify herself and was terribly embarrassed. The point of this story is that we should stop judging. We don't need to know why anyone feels they need a service animal or any other accomodation. Many health issues, like epilepsy, hearing loss or emotional issues, are invisible but genuine. We should be focusing on enjoying our own vacation experience, not judging why someone else felt the need to jump through the hoops necessary to bring a "service" animal on board. If the animal is disruptive, we can complain to the Pursar just like we might complain about passengers who over-indulge in liquor, unsupervised kids or sticky tables in the Windjammer. Otherwise, just have a good time and don't sweat the small stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
BillOh Holiday Sharing Rare

BillOh

Posted
Posted
I know of someone who had a small dog that alerts them when a seizure is about to happen. I have no idea how the dog knows, but that is really not the point.

 

The point is, there are legitimate service animals for many things. However, many...unfortunately my cousin is one...go online and get certificates for "emotional support animals" (that is what my cousin has) but they have never been under treatment for emotional issues, seen a doctor for emotional issues, been in ad hoc group sessions for emotional issues or, in any other form or setting, have been thought to have emotional issues. Those are the problem people.

 

In my opinion airlines, cruise lines, trains, hotels, etc. should require something from a doctor and there should be a requirement of documentation that a certified trainer has performed specific and specialized training that enables the animal to provide the assistance a doctor said was needed.

 

With a little bit of time it doesn't take long to spot the fake ones. Service dogs are highly trained and not subject to bad behavior (without provocation ) Seeing someone else carrying, isn't a clue if they were taking the dog to one of the bathroom stations they setup for those animals, but carrying into somewhere else maybe. I've seen a few of the fake dogs. Recently that was also a Yorkie on a leash. While the owner was walking in a mall their dog walked between my legs and wrapped his leash around my legs freezing me in place. A trained animal wouldn' have done that. It had one of the fake service animal vest.

 

This site advertises - TAKE YOUR ANIMALS ANYWHERE.

 

https://www.officialservicedogregistry.com/register-your-dog/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkpzU-53U1QIVkxXTCh2aNATYEAAYAyAAEgKof_D_BwE.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Beachammo

Beachammo

Posted
Posted
With a little bit of time it doesn't take long to spot the fake ones. Service dogs are highly trained and not subject to bad behavior (without provocation ) Seeing someone else carrying, isn't a clue if they were taking the dog to one of the bathroom stations they setup for those animals, but carrying into somewhere else maybe. I've seen a few of the fake dogs. Recently that was also a Yorkie on a leash. While the owner was walking in a mall their dog walked between my legs and wrapped his leash around my legs freezing me in place. A trained animal wouldn' have done that. It had one of the fake service animal vest.

 

This site advertises - TAKE YOUR ANIMALS ANYWHERE.

 

https://www.officialservicedogregistry.com/register-your-dog/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkpzU-53U1QIVkxXTCh2aNATYEAAYAyAAEgKof_D_BwE.

They say the use the "Honor System"

 

If someone showed me an ID like this....I would of believed they were legitimately in need.

 

3a3c17e5f808033bf76b76fec68151c9.jpg

 

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites
WestfieldTraveler

WestfieldTraveler

Posted
Posted

A couple of weeks ago I saw a lady with a Collie/shepherd mix with what looked to be an embroidered "service dog" on the harness at the costco near me. Of course (and I really wish I got a picture) the lady was going between sample stations taking a bite herself and giving the rest to the expectantly sitting dog.

 

So is anything in place to keep that from happening in the windjammer? Nothing in Royal's policy says you can't feed it from the buffet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ocean Dancer

Ocean Dancer

Posted
Posted
A couple of weeks ago I saw a lady with a Collie/shepherd mix with what looked to be an embroidered "service dog" on the harness at the costco near me. Of course (and I really wish I got a picture) the lady was going between sample stations taking a bite herself and giving the rest to the expectantly sitting dog.

 

So is anything in place to keep that from happening in the windjammer? Nothing in Royal's policy says you can't feed it from the buffet.

There have been posts of people feeding their animals at the MDR table.:cool:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
payitforward

payitforward

Posted
Posted
I was on Holland America in May (Alaska), and there were 2 or 3 service dogs on board. They were well-behaved and stayed with particular passengers for the week. They were very visible all week, all over the ship. I didn't hear any complaints or criticisms from anyone about them.

 

This thread reminded me a little of an incident that crushed one of my parents. My Mom had experimental lung surgery during WWII, which left her with one lung. She was unable to walk very far due to breathing limitations, but was fiercely independent and fought going on oxygen. Eventually my Mom had to start using her handicapped tag on her car, since she was unable to walk very far even though she appeared to be healthy if someone just looked at her. The first time my Mom used the handicapped tag, someone attacked her verbally in the parking lot for having the nerve to park in a handicapped spot since she was healthy. My Mom didn't want to share the details of her medical condition with a stranger to justify herself and was terribly embarrassed. The point of this story is that we should stop judging. We don't need to know why anyone feels they need a service animal or any other accomodation. Many health issues, like epilepsy, hearing loss or emotional issues, are invisible but genuine. We should be focusing on enjoying our own vacation experience, not judging why someone else felt the need to jump through the hoops necessary to bring a "service" animal on board. If the animal is disruptive, we can complain to the Pursar just like we might complain about passengers who over-indulge in liquor, unsupervised kids or sticky tables in the Windjammer. Otherwise, just have a good time and don't sweat the small stuff.

 

This has happened to me and many of my friends more often than it should. I also look healthy and can walk normally most of the time, but have "good days" and "bad days." On my good days I won't use a handicapped sticker. On bad days, the pain is so bad I can barely walk in to a store to get a scooter.

 

In April I had a group of people with Fibromyalgia on Liberty of the Seas. We boarded as a group, and a bunch of us got into an elevator. Two of us were on scooters, but the rest were walking. A woman (who did not even arrive at the elevators until after we had boarded one) began yelling that the able bodied people should get off to make room for her and a woman she was pushing in a wheelchair. I simply replied that, while they may all look fine, everyone in this group was disabled. Of course she rolled her eyes, but could do nothing. I hope she later read the t-shirts and saw some of my people using their canes, walkers and scooters around the ship.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
rj70056

rj70056

Posted
Posted
Does your cat identify as a dog?

 

Nope, he knows he is the biggest and baddest cat around. Most folks tend to keep their dogs at a safe distance and walk on the other side of the street when I take him out. For that matter most people too, with or without a dog.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ONECRUISER

ONECRUISER

Posted
Posted
This has happened to me and many of my friends more often than it should. I also look healthy and can walk normally most of the time, but have "good days" and "bad days." On my good days I won't use a handicapped sticker. On bad days, the pain is so bad I can barely walk in to a store to get a scooter.

 

In April I had a group of people with Fibromyalgia on Liberty of the Seas. We boarded as a group, and a bunch of us got into an elevator. Two of us were on scooters, but the rest were walking. A woman (who did not even arrive at the elevators until after we had boarded one) began yelling that the able bodied people should get off to make room for her and a woman she was pushing in a wheelchair. I simply replied that, while they may all look fine, everyone in this group was disabled. Of course she rolled her eyes, but could do nothing. I hope she later read the t-shirts and saw some of my people using their canes, walkers and scooters around the ship.

Can relate. US Army Disabled. Look 100% healthy but have herniated discs in back, multiple surgeries and permanent nerve damage in hands. Chronic pain for 10 yrs. Get lot looks to give up seats for someone else. Most of time I will as there is lot of people even worse then I am. As they say, never judge a book by it's cover.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
grapau27

grapau27

Posted
Posted
Can relate. US Army Disabled. Look 100% healthy but have herniated discs in back, multiple surgeries and permanent nerve damage in hands. Chronic pain for 10 yrs. Get lot looks to give up seats for someone else. Most of time I will as there is lot of people even worse then I am. As they say, never judge a book by it's cover.

You are definitely right people might look fine but it is not often the case as i know with arthritis so we never judge anyone.

 

Sent from my Kestrel using Forums mobile app

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 3 months later...

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing
  • Forum Jump
    • Categories
      • Welcome to Cruise Critic
      • New Cruisers
      • Cruise Lines “A – O”
      • Cruise Lines “P – Z”
      • River Cruising
      • ROLL CALLS
      • Cruise Critic News & Features
      • Digital Photography & Cruise Technology
      • Special Interest Cruising
      • Cruise Discussion Topics
      • UK Cruising
      • Australia & New Zealand Cruisers
      • Canadian Cruisers
      • North American Homeports
      • Ports of Call
      • Cruise Conversations
×
×
  • Create New...