Dog on ship

[Domino D]

That's not the case. Rather, the ADA only does not apply when compliance would, "violate the law of the foreign country".

 

Thanks. Good to know. The exclusion clause seemed murky to me, but I only looked at it once a while ago.

[Darlingdvl]

You could have just asked. I did last year and it was an older gentleman who has the dog PTSD. Sometimes it's not so obvious as to why someone needs a service dog. My 5yr. old is diagnosed with anxiety and obsessive disorder. From the outside no one would know until she has full out meltdown. A service dog would be calming for her and keep her from harming herself. My point is don't judge from the outside and it doesn't hurt to ask

Edited June 28, 2017 by Darlingdvl

[Ocean Dancer]

Have ANY of you ever heard about "emotional support" animals? They are not quite the same as dogs who guide hearing/sight-impaired folks. You have to have documentation from some recognized entity and the cruise line demands that. Why do you think those several animal relief boxes have been placed near the running tracks?

Please read the thread before responding. The cruise line DEMANDS NOTHING. No paper work, no certificate, no documentation is required, with the exception of veterinary check and updated shots.

All they CAN do is ask what task the dog is trained to do. The dog needs no vest, leash, etc. nothing. This is where myself and many others are having a problem. You say it's service/support, no one can question you. If they do, you have a law suit.:evilsmile::*:eek:

[Darlingdvl]

Please read the thread before responding. The cruise line DEMANDS NOTHING. No paper work, no certificate, no documentation is required, with the exception of veterinary check and updated shots.

All they CAN do is ask what task the dog is trained to do. The dog needs no vest, leash, etc. nothing. This is where myself and many others are having a problem. You say it's service/support, no one can question you. If they do, you have a law suit.:evilsmile::*:eek:

When you ask in nice manner, I'm sure they don't mind answering instead of throwing the lawsuit bomb at you. When I asked the gentleman last year he told me why and we continued our conversation, he introduced my family to his family and we became friends. It's all in your approach.

[Don Pedro]

Perhaps the time is nearing for the ADA to adopt better definitions and directives. People who take advantage various loopholes create an atmosphere for undue criticism of someone who truly requires a service animal. I once saw a comment by a lady claiming she needed to bring Fido along because the animal suffered from anxiety attacks when separated from her, its owner.

 

This thread talks about emotional support dogs, therapy dogs and service dogs and probably a few doggie descriptions I've missed. With a little imagination most dogs could be weaseled into one of these categories. Guess we'll just need to watch where we step.

Edited June 28, 2017 by Don Pedro

[LMaxwell]

You say it's service/support, no one can question you. If they do, you have a law suit.:evilsmile::*:eek:

 

A company can't question, but any individual person may ask, regardless if its considered polite or rude, it's certainly not violating any laws if you were to personally ask someone. Not that they can't lie or even have to respond to you.

[Ocean Dancer]

When you ask in nice manner, I'm sure they don't mind answering instead of throwing the lawsuit bomb at you. When I asked the gentleman last year he told me why and we continued our conversation, he introduced my family to his family and we became friends. It's all in your approach.

 

A cruise company/restaurant/airline etc, CAN NOT ask nicely, it is illegal. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. If you were an employee in a place of business and "asked nicely" you are setting yourself up for immediate firing and a law suit toward your company.

 

A company can't question, but any individual person may ask, regardless if its considered polite or rude, it's certainly not violating any laws if you were to personally ask someone. Not that they can't lie or even have to respond to you.

Correct, LMaxwell, that's what I meant, but didn't word it correctly.:halo:

[Paulette3028]

Perhaps the time is nearing for the ADA to adopt better definitions and directives. People who take advantage various loopholes create an atmosphere for undue criticism of someone who truly requires a service animal. I once saw a comment by a lady claiming she needed to bring Fido along because the animal suffered from anxiety attacks when separated from her, its owner.

This thread talks about emotional support dogs, therapy dogs and service dogs and probably a few doggie descriptions I've missed. With a little imagination most dogs could be weaseled into one of these categories. Guess we'll just need to watch where we step.

 

I can ONLY speak for myself....but if a person would have said that to me --- my response would have been 'She could stay at home with Fido so he doesn't experience separation anxiety and not cause unnecessary problems for others'. I realize a business would not be saying that....but this individual could and would.

[firegal2539]

I found a cruise for 2019 on Princess that I want to book. I had my TA call, while I was on the line, and see about the exact cabin I wanted, it was an accessible cabin, the cost etc. When my TA mentioned the cabin number the agent went into a spiel about it was accessible and was I in a wheelchair. My TA replied that I used a walker and cane full time, and on most cruises rented a scooter. The rep proceeded to tell my TA that I could be removed from the cabin if someone needed it for their wheelchair.

 

I then mentioned that I have a handicapped designation by three of my physicians and there was no way they could move me out of that room. I explained I can't step up into the bathroom, I need a larger shower, so I can sit when taking one. The rep, again stated she couldn't guarantee that the cabin wouldn't be taken from me.

 

I reserved the cabin and then immediately called the corporate office and spoke with a executive rep who told me that the cabin would not be taken away from me.

 

Sorry, I know this has nothing to do with the dog, but this really made me mad and I felt the need to vent.

[grapau27]

I can ONLY speak for myself....but if a person would have said that to me --- my response would have been 'She could stay at home with Fido so he doesn't experience separation anxiety and not cause unnecessary problems for others'. I realize a business would not be saying that....but this individual could and would.

Sounds reasonable to me.

[grapau27]

I found a cruise for 2019 on Princess that I want to book. I had my TA call, while I was on the line, and see about the exact cabin I wanted, it was an accessible cabin, the cost etc. When my TA mentioned the cabin number the agent went into a spiel about it was accessible and was I in a wheelchair. My TA replied that I used a walker and cane full time, and on most cruises rented a scooter. The rep proceeded to tell my TA that I could be removed from the cabin if someone needed it for their wheelchair.

 

I then mentioned that I have a handicapped designation by three of my physicians and there was no way they could move me out of that room. I explained I can't step up into the bathroom, I need a larger shower, so I can sit when taking one. The rep, again stated she couldn't guarantee that the cabin wouldn't be taken from me.

 

I reserved the cabin and then immediately called the corporate office and spoke with a executive rep who told me that the cabin would not be taken away from me.

 

Sorry, I know this has nothing to do with the dog, but this really made me mad and I felt the need to vent.

You sound as though you are totally right and the agent needs a lesson in rules and empathy.

[bUU]

You sound as though you are totally right and the agent needs a lesson in rules and empathy.

Or at least compassionate courtesy. Best practice would have empathy, itself, trained out of customer service agents. Actual empathy would prompt agents to set aside their actual obligations. The job of customer service is quite difficult because they are expected to make the customer feel like they are empathizing while what they are actually doing is still pursuing the mission and objectives of the business. Their call is not to think, "What can I do to make you happy?" but rather, "What can I do to recover your satisfaction within the parameters of the authority allocated to me?"

 

Even if the agent was correct, the agent should have expressed it as his/her own concern about being unable to guarantee that the passenger wouldn't be bumped from the cabin to afford a wheelchair-bound passenger a suitable cabin instead of what seems to have been the case, that the agent expressed it as a callous threat.

 

To be fair, though, perception and reality aren't always the same. I relayed in another thread recently my experience as an accredited third-party, and part of that job involved listening in on escalated customer service calls. When I first started that work, it was an eye-opener how often the characterization of the agent's demeanor by the customer did not resemble whatsoever the agent's actual demeanor as evidenced by the recordings of the original customer service calls between the customer and the agent. It was such a drastic disparity that every time I catch myself perceiving negative treatment from a customer service agent I check myself and try to see through my disappointment about the objective bad news being delivered to me, to see if that's what I'm really upset about rather than the demeanor of the person delivering the bad news.

[grapau27]

Or at least compassionate courtesy. Best practice would have empathy, itself, trained out of customer service agents. Actual empathy would prompt agents to set aside their actual obligations. The job of customer service is quite difficult because they are expected to make the customer feel like they are empathizing while what they are actually doing is still pursuing the mission and objectives of the business. Their call is not to think, "What can I do to make you happy?" but rather, "What can I do to recover your satisfaction within the parameters of the authority allocated to me?"

 

Even if the agent was correct, the agent should have expressed it as his/her own concern about being unable to guarantee that the passenger wouldn't be bumped from the cabin to afford a wheelchair-bound passenger a suitable cabin instead of what seems to have been the case, that the agent expressed it as a callous threat.

 

To be fair, though, perception and reality aren't always the same. I relayed in another thread recently my experience as an accredited third-party, and part of that job involved listening in on escalated customer service calls. When I first started that work, it was an eye-opener how often the characterization of the agent's demeanor by the customer did not resemble whatsoever the agent's actual demeanor as evidenced by the recordings of the original customer service calls between the customer and the agent. It was such a drastic disparity that every time I catch myself perceiving negative treatment from a customer service agent I check myself and try to see through my disappointment about the objective bad news being delivered to me, to see if that's what I'm really upset about rather than the demeanor of the person delivering the bad news.

Expertly described and an eye opener to us that are not privy to the workings of these call centres.

[jym626]

This may have been addressed earlier in the thread, but there is a big difference between a service dog and an emotional support animal, which it is likely the yorkie was, whether legitimately or not. ESAs are only approved for housing and airplane flights. A cruise is neither. ESAs can be helpful, but the system is badly misused.

 

 

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[rj70056]

I have a leash trained F1 Savannah cat with whom I share a strong emotional tie to...can I bring him on-board with a certificate?

[John Reid]

Have ANY of you ever heard about "emotional support" animals? They are not quite the same as dogs who guide hearing/sight-impaired folks. You have to have documentation from some recognized entity and the cruise line demands that. Why do you think those several animal relief boxes have been placed near the running tracks?

 

I thought they were for us bladder-challenged seniors who need to relieve every other lap. If I had a service dog to let me know when it's time, it would be barking constantly.

[Beachammo]

I have a leash trained F1 Savannah cat with whom I share a strong emotional tie to...can I bring him on-board with a certificate?

No Certificate necessary....

 

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[voyager70]

I thought they were for us bladder-challenged seniors who need to relieve every other lap. If I had a service dog to let me know when it's time, it would be barking constantly.

 

Thanks for the laugh :D

[Ocean Dancer]

As I said before, I'm bringing my baby elephant and we'll see how often that litter pan gets changed! BTW, he eats yorkies for lunch!

[grapau27]

I thought they were for us bladder-challenged seniors who need to relieve every other lap. If I had a service dog to let me know when it's time, it would be barking constantly.

Great laugh lol.

 

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[Ashland]

And then there are those of us with dog allergies that can end in an Asthma attack, depending on the type of dog. Whose needs should get preference?

AGREE !!!! How do I or my grandchildren know that there has been a dog in the cabin just before us until we start having a reaction :loudcry:....Isn't our physical health to be of concern :eek:.....This is getting sadly out of hand !!!!!

[WisconsinFan]

I was speaking to someone just last week who told me that when their child moved into a college dorm the new roommate had an "emotional support dog" the roommate just got. The dog lived in the little, tiny dorm room in an UNDER SIZED crate. The child of the person I was talking to was by college rules not allowed to take the dog out of the crate. The dog could not stand up or turn around. The roommate did not take the dog to class with them. It was not "working" as other true service dogs do. I thought this was very unfair to the "emotional support" dog.

 

I do work on a college campus and have had students with working service dogs. Those dogs are so well behaved that most people never know that they are under a desk or next to their owners wheel chair. I even know one student who was in a professional program who had to retire their working dog a bit earlier because if the dog was in the lab or on campus and the grad student was allowed to catch some rest on campus, in the lab, the dog would not also rest. The dog was there to assist his master and he would not rest as he was not at home.

 

Get a trusted dog sitter or kennel your dog. They will be just fine, and you will be too.

[Ashland]

The issue with this is that it could potentially violate the Americans With Disabilities Act for truly disabled people and their service dogs.

Truly disabled people should have no trouble providing legitimate documentation verifying their need....Not just an online printed out certificate that anyone can get to bring Fluffy on vacay.

 

Recently there was a post on a similar topic where as the so called service dog was left unattended to bark all day in the locked cabin while the needy people went on excursions.

[Merion_Mom]

As I said before, I'm bringing my baby elephant and we'll see how often that litter pan gets changed! BTW, he eats yorkies for lunch!

 

Nice try, Ocean Dancer. Elephants are herbivorous. ;)

[bUU]

[Truly disabled people should have no trouble providing legitimate documentation verifying their need....

No one speaks for all people with disabilities. Many do object to being forced to subject their situation to scrutiny, and that is reflected in the law that the previous poster cited.

 

 

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