Tipping

[grapau27]

The bar staff are tipped already it is in the price of the drinks you buy.

 

The problem with this thread is that there is so much misinformation.

 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Forums mobile app

You are usually right daiB.

P&O autotips are reasonable and by far the easiest thing to do is leave them on and just enjoy your cruise.

 

Sent from my Kestrel using Forums mobile app

[john watson]

If you are paying £5k then obviously £6 a day makes no difference and you are obviously not booking a cruise based on the cost.

 

However at the other end of P&O's pricing scale, they are able to shave 8% off the headline price by not mentioning the discretionary service charge. That sells more cruises and makes more money.

 

If staff are being exploited, the blame for this sits firmly on the shoulders of P&O's directors.

 

Technically this should be £5K and £12 a day.

 

Not including the tips in the cruise fare does make marketing more successful in my opinion because people are very price conscious and tend not to examine quality. Travel Agents will often switch-sell where people seem a bit undecided in the shop and point out cheaper operators. One Travel Agent I was booking up with found it difficult to understand why I changed dates to get a specific cabin when the price increased but the dates moved a week on the same itinerary.

 

I simply leave the auto-tips on and add small amounts in cash, particularly for last day in MDR. It can feel a bit uncomfortable leaving when your dining companions have handed over envelopes.

 

Regards John

[jeanlyon]

That's my whole point. If you leave auto tips on, then the last night in the MDR can indeed feel uncomfortable with the rest of yur table giving envelopes. I actualy found the Fred idea of "tips included" much better. It was already in the price of our cruise so we just used an envelope for extra tips.

[balf]

Two things I've learned over the years are to never believe all you read in a newspaper and even more so never believe all you read on CC boards.

 

David.

[majortom10]

That's my whole point. If you leave auto tips on, then the last night in the MDR can indeed feel uncomfortable with the rest of yur table giving envelopes. I actualy found the Fred idea of "tips included" much better. It was already in the price of our cruise so we just used an envelope for extra tips.

 

But equally that would make those that have had their tips included by FO and have decided within their rights not to give extra then others on the last day in MDR turn up waving envelopes about. If tips are included do not understand the need to even tip further.

[Eglesbrech]

Genuinely puzzled by this.

 

What service do you get from a cabin steward that deserves additional tipping, but more importantly can deteriorate?

 

They make the bed, give a quick clean around, stick in fresh towels, and are gone.

 

 

I leave an additional tip (in addition to the autotips) as I ask the Steward to provide ice and lemon every day which adds a little to their work. As I appreciate them doing so I give them something extra.

[insanemagnet]

I repeat. The guardian article gives the amounts earned. Why keep on repeatedly quoting the same made up numbers when you admitted in your earlier post you had "no idea" if the figures you're using are correct.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

The (five year old) Guardian article mentions the £250 basic pay which is supplemented by tips (again a five year old article).

 

So which parts of my estimate do you disagree with, or are you suggesting the cabin steward and waiters are not receiving the service charge?

[john watson]

That's my whole point. If you leave auto tips on, then the last night in the MDR can indeed feel uncomfortable with the rest of your table giving envelopes. I actually found the Fred idea of "tips included" much better. It was already in the price of our cruise so we just used an envelope for extra tips.

 

The "Tips Included" model for trading as per Fred Olsen, narrows the price differential in favour of P&O which is often dearer. If the tips included is standard, as opposed to pre-paying tips as an option, there is no need for the awkward bit last night in the MDR. As soon as anyone starts handing out last day MDR envelopes we would need to counter with ours and that is a problem. If it was a pre-payment option not everybody would be consistent and envelopes would always come into play. Another point on tips being included in the fare is uncertainty of how much money is given as tips to the staff. At least with auto-tipping and pre-payment you know what the figure is.

 

Regards John

[claudiniusmaximus]

@insanemagnet As you say the guardian article says 250 is the basic wage for lower end staff. As does the telegraph article Florry posted.

 

Then that is made up by the service charge by up to another £150 a month assuming everyone pays their autotips and the staff meet their performance targets.

 

If people remove autotips and tip individuals then there is less in the jar to share and so that extra £150 may well be less.

 

 

 

The article says that crew (with tips and bonuses) could be earning between approx £400 a month and £1000 a month dependant on their position.

 

But if you it makes you feel better to believe that they get £35k a year then be my guest. You are the one who repeatedly stated you had "no idea" and were literally making up numbers, at least I'm quoting sources.

 

 

Here is another link that corresponds with the figures in the two articles already posted https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salary/P-and-O-Cruises-Salaries-E377562.htm

 

That makes it three external sources all bearing each other out in terms of the renumeration. But at the end of the day people believe what they want to.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

Edited August 8, 2017 by claudiniusmaximus

[terrierjohn]

@insanemagnet As you say the guardian article says 250 is the basic wage for lower end staff. As does the telegraph article Florry posted.

 

Then that is made up by the service charge by up to another £150 a month assuming everyone pays their autotips and the staff meet their performance targets.

 

If people remove autotips and tip individuals then there is less in the jar to share and so that extra £150 may well be less.

 

 

 

The article says that crew (with tips and bonuses) could be earning between approx £400 a month and £1000 a month dependant on their position.

 

But if you it makes you feel better to believe that they get £35k a year then be my guest. You are the one who repeatedly stated you had "no idea" and were literally making up numbers, at least I'm quoting sources.

 

 

Here is another link that corresponds with the figures in the two articles already posted https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salary/P-and-O-Cruises-Salaries-E377562.htm

 

That makes it three external sources all bearing each other out in terms of the renumeration. But at the end of the day people believe what they want to.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

Not a particularly large sample on the above CM, only 22 total responses and no job with more than 2 records, which might be from disgruntled staff trying to make a point.

It seems to me that the cruise lines have been very successful in hiding the true wage levels of their staff, which might of course prove the point you are making that they are underpaid.

We discussed with a Polish husband and wife who were waiters on Coral Princess back in 2009, he was a qualified vet she was a nurse, they claimed to be earning 4 or 5 times more than they could back home, and more than his MIL who was a lawyer.

Of course they could have been lying, but why would they?

Despite the regular articles in the media about the poor wage levels on cruise ships, there seems to be a long waiting list of aspiring waiters and stewards all desperate to tie themselves to these medieval cruise ship contracts.

[grapau27]

Not a particularly large sample on the above CM, only 22 total responses and no job with more than 2 records, which might be from disgruntled staff trying to make a point.

It seems to me that the cruise lines have been very successful in hiding the true wage levels of their staff, which might of course prove the point you are making that they are underpaid.

We discussed with a Polish husband and wife who were waiters on Coral Princess back in 2009, he was a qualified vet she was a nurse, they claimed to be earning 4 or 5 times more than they could back home, and more than his MIL who was a lawyer.

Of course they could have been lying, but why would they?

Despite the regular articles in the media about the poor wage levels on cruise ships, there seems to be a long waiting list of aspiring waiters and stewards all desperate to tie themselves to these medieval cruise ship contracts.

Certainly makes you think if there is a long list of people wanting these jobs.

 

Sent from my Kestrel using Forums mobile app

[insanemagnet]

@insanemagnet As you say the guardian article says 250 is the basic wage for lower end staff. As does the telegraph article Florry posted.

 

Then that is made up by the service charge by up to another £150 a month assuming everyone pays their autotips and the staff meet their performance targets.

 

If you think they are only getting £150 a month from the service charge either an awful lot of people are removing it or the money is disappearing somewhere.

 

Take an example of Ventura, which will be taking £550,000 a month in service charges.

 

As the service charge only goes to stewards and waiters, if as you claim they are only getting £150 there must be 3,666 of them on board. Really? Where are they all hiding.

[claudiniusmaximus]

Well, four of the six people at our table have removed their tips. Lots on this thread say they remove the autotips. That may well amount to an awful lot of people.

 

As an aside the service charge also goes to buffet staff according to the p&o website as per my quote and the quote someone else provided. And when we talk about the cabin steward, well mine is supported by at least two staff from what I can tell etc etc

 

And I don't claim that they all get £150 a month, that refers to the lower end of the scale. I did say that some staff get up to £1000 a month all in. I just dispute your figure of £35k.

 

A P&O spokesperson themselves were quoted in the article saying that the most a crew member can get is £1000 a month for the higher paid crew. I don't understand why you don't want to accept it when p&o themselves do. But that's your prerogative.

 

As I've repeatedly stated, my intent in referencing the salaries (and referencing three different sources in so doing) is merely to explain my motivation in not removing the automatic service charge, which when it is paid tops up the wages to a reasonable level all things considered. And that when compared to the cost of the cruise, and the low basic pay, the £12 a day is negligible in the scheme of things - I'm happy to pay my share if it tops the wages up to the levels p&o claim the staff receive.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

Edited August 8, 2017 by claudiniusmaximus

[kalos]

If you think they are only getting £150 a month from the service charge either an awful lot of people are removing it or the money is disappearing somewhere.

 

Take an example of Ventura, which will be taking £550,000 a month in service charges.

 

As the service charge only goes to stewards and waiters, if as you claim they are only getting £150 there must be 3,666 of them on board. Really? Where are they all hiding.

 

A site gives P&O and other companies wage and bonus averages, (up to date ) to get the bonus

scroll half way down the page . make what you will of the figures that are posted.

 

https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salary/P-and-O-Cruises-Salaries-E377562.htm

[whoops]

Having read some of the comments on here I feel that I must cease paying both the autotips and tipping individually. If so many people remove their tips then P&O need to do something about it by paying their staff a decent wage and increasing the cost of their cruises. I don't see why I should subsidise those who opt out. A price inclusive of tips would be a fairer system for both the crew and customers.

[amajaa]

A site gives P&O and other companies wage and bonus averages, (up to date ) to get the bonus

scroll half way down the page . make what you will of the figures that are posted.

 

https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salary/P-and-O-Cruises-Salaries-E377562.htm

 

We don't know if these figures are correct but I presume that whatever their take home pay is they get their board and lodgings free. Am I correct in that assumption and that these figures are on top of their board and lodgings?

[chrisg1uk]

then others on the last day in MDR turn up waving envelopes about. If tips are included do not understand the need to even tip further.

 

Not going to get involved in the argument but love the "waving about" description. Have only done fixed dining once and a lot of folk were very discrete but a few did get a bit theatrical (read embarrassing) making a very big deal of the envelope handing over "ceremony" no doubt fuelled a glass or two. Bit sad (but slightly funny) really.

[Trevor Fountain]

Originally posted by Trevor Fountain ". If people start removing the "discretionary" service charge of £6 per person per day, I will bet all my hard earned that there will be plenty of folk who don't give the equivalent amount in tips to those they feel do deserve it.

I do feel P&O are largely at fault for saying it is discretionary. Either have a mandatory service charge, or just go back to the old way of tipping for everybody.

 

Having read some of the comments on here I feel that I must cease paying both the autotips and tipping individually. If so many people remove their tips then P&O need to do something about it by paying their staff a decent wage and increasing the cost of their cruises. I don't see why I should subsidise those who opt out. A price inclusive of tips would be a fairer system for both the crew and customers.

 

 

B I N G O

[Josy1953]

Originally posted by Trevor Fountain ". If people start removing the "discretionary" service charge of £6 per person per day, I will bet all my hard earned that there will be plenty of folk who don't give the equivalent amount in tips to those they feel do deserve it.

I do feel P&O are largely at fault for saying it is discretionary. Either have a mandatory service charge, or just go back to the old way of tipping for everybody.

 

 

 

B I N G O

I was going to stay of this topic but in my opinion the best solution is to include tips in the cruise price. The old way of tipping is not the answer, way back in the 80s we noticed that a lot of people avoided the MDR on the last night presumably to avoid giving the tips to the waiters. Any system where the payment is not mandatory someone somewhere will find a way to avoid paying.

[Florry]

I think the saying about not discussing religion and politics should be extended to tipping and dress codes [emoji85]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[insanemagnet]

I don't understand why you don't want to accept it when p&o themselves do. But that's your prerogative.

 

Well here are some alternative examples -

 

Waiter $2500 to $4200 per month - http://www.cruiseshipjob.com/waiter-waitress-jobs.html

Server on Carnival $32,942 per year - https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Carnival-Cruise-Lines/salaries

Waiters $2500 to $4000 per month - http://www.cruiselinesjobs.com/wages/

 

Who knows the truth, but a possible £6.5m a year in service charges on a ship like Ventura is a pretty large amount of money to divide up.

[bee-ess]

I think the saying about not discussing religion and politics should be extended to tipping and dress codes [emoji85]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

and embarkation times !!

[bee-ess]

Some friends of us are cruising with NCL next month and their tips are included. They neither know or care if it is included in the fare but they are happy with the amount they are paying for the cruise so feel it doesn't matter. So everyone is happy.

[kalos]

We don't know if these figures are correct but I presume that whatever their take home pay is they get their board and lodgings free. Am I correct in that assumption and that these figures are on top of their board and lodgings?

 

I have not heard of any cruise ship that charges staff for board and lodgings or their medical well being. I should imagine the companies have a duty of care of their staff.

 

If you Google cruise waiter staff jobs, most jobs on offer give exactly that.

 

As I said in last post people can " Make what they want of the figures "

 

The site does other companies wage figures as well as cruise related.

[chrisg1uk]

and embarkation times !!

 

Especially embarkation times (yawn)