Child falls 2 stories in ship at port

[bingomamma19]

That’s where I was until the “Justice” thing came out.

And we keep using the plural word “Parents” when only one parent cruised with the child.

I’m certainly not saying single parents shouldn’t cruise with their kids, but all this talk of hand and leash holding.... How exactly does that work when you have a newborn in one hand and at least a diaper bag in the other.

 

At least we’re off the “That child should have been in school” kick. If the elevator was so crowded that little this little girl squeezed in the front and then got out with traffic before her floor getting separated from her mom, they could have avoided this my waiting by taking the stairs or debarking later. Any decision made by Mom up to a few seconds before this accident might have changed the outcome, doesn’t mean any of them were wrong.

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The late debarking thing is what I always do. I hate the crowds and chaos that happens. We go to the buffet, eat and sit on the lido deck until they call for last call of people to get off.

 

BTW I have an 11 yr old that I have taken on 10 cruises--when she was younger..yes on a kid leash. Otherwise she is always right next to me and even now still holds my hand near railings.

[cltnccruisers]

The scenario you described does sound likely but the question is....what did she climb on and should it have been there? It’s not easy for an adult, let alone an 8 year old, to lean over the railing that far to lose balance and fall over.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

There are pictures in this thread that clearly show about a 2 foot high chrome piece at the bottom of the railing. It seems quite feasible that she could have hopped up on it, leaned over the railing and fell.

[Aquahound]

I agree with this. I originally felt awful for the parents and thought it must have been a freak accident, but now that they are trying to blame the cruise line, I have lost sympathy..

 

Please show me where the child's parent(s) blamed Carnival. Because all I've seen so far was a generic comment from a Great Uncle.

 

And do you seriously not still feel awful for the parents? Really??!!

[Tommy3putts]

I don’t recall seeing this posted earlier. Here is an article posted on the Miami Herald sight this morning. A few more details.

 

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article179242701.html

[42CruiseCrazy]

There are pictures in this thread that clearly show about a 2 foot high chrome piece at the bottom of the railing. It seems quite feasible that she could have hopped up on it, leaned over the railing and fell.

 

 

 

I missed seeing those pictures but if what you say is correct, then Carnival may have a liability “problem”

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[luv2trvlnow]

There are pics posted on this thread that clearly show about a 2 foot chrome section (shelf?) at the bottom of the railing. So your 5"3" standing on that and bending over could get accidentally bumped during the jostling of disembarkation day.

I don't see that you have been on a Carnival ship in your signature. I can tell you that picture does not show clearly a 2 foot section. It is around 10" or so but no where near 2 feet. I am also about 5ft 3in and when standing at the railing with my arms resting on the rail the rail is a around my upper chest area.

Edited October 17, 2017 by luv2trvlnow

[grapau27]

It's not unheard of to file preemptive lawsuits, particularly when maritime law is involved. Carnival, itself, has done the same thing. You only need to look back to the Triumph "poop cruise" to see this. Triumph was docked at the BAE Systems shipyard in Mobile, for repairs, when a freak storm blew up one afternoon, causing the Triumph to break free and go adrift in the Mobile River. The Triumph struck two ships while adrift and tragically, two shipyard employees died in the event. In the aftermath, Carnival filed lawsuits against numerous parties, including BAE Systems, the Army Corp of Engineers, Signal shipyard across the river from BAE and the widow of a BAE employee who was tragically killed in the event.

 

It's all legal posturing to protect their own interests, basically elbowing others out of the way in order to make themselves whole and to protect their position in the case.

 

http://www.al.com/business/index.ssf/2013/06/carnival_corp_seeking_12_milli.html

 

This family may not ever file a lawsuit against Carnival, but knowing that Carnival already has their lawyers on the case, it would be foolish for this family not to consult legal counsel to ensure that their rights are protected, at the least.

If the railing did not break free i cannot see how Carnival can be held responsible for this tragic accident.

[cltnccruisers]

I don't see that you have been on a Carnival ship in your signature. I can tell you that picture does not show clearly a 2 foot section. It is around 10" or so but no where near 2 feet. I am also about 5ft 3in and when standing at the railing with my arms resting on the rail my arms are around my neck area.

 

True enough, I've never been on a Carnival ship so I'll defer to you on the size of the strip. Regardless of the size of the ledge are you saying it's not feasible for her to hop up on it, lean over and fall?

[42CruiseCrazy]

True enough, I've never been on a Carnival ship so I'll defer to you on the size of the strip. Regardless of the size of the ledge are you saying it's not feasible for her to hop up on it, lean over and fall?

 

 

 

Think like a child for a moment. What’s easier? to lift yourself up above the railing & lean forward (which is a difficult & risky maneuver) or to kneel down and look through the glass to the decks below. I believe she must have had something to climb up on in order to have fallen over the railing.

[angiegal]

Think like a child for a moment. What’s easier? to lift yourself up above the railing & lean forward (which is a difficult & risky maneuver) or to kneel down and look through the glass to the decks below. I believe she must have had something to climb up on in order to have fallen over the railing.

 

We were just on the Sensation last week. My son is three and can clearly see through the glass on these railing. But the first thing he did was grab the top edge and try to pull himself up because he "want to see". He was reprimanded and not allowed near the railings again.

[42CruiseCrazy]

We were just on the Sensation last week. My son is three and can clearly see through the glass on these railing. But the first thing he did was grab the top edge and try to pull himself up because he "want to see". He was reprimanded and not allowed near the railings again.

 

 

 

Your child is three & this child was eight. Eight-year-olds normally have more fear (and common sense). However, I do understand your point.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[foxgoodrich]

If that turned out to be true, I would think that Carnival may be more at fault. A table that could be climbed by a child too close to a railing would be Carnival's fault. Hopefully, we will learn the truth in time.

 

Seriously? I guess all the cruise lines need to remove all furniture from balconies.

 

I believe liability here is the parent's. I'm sorry if that sounds cold, and I feel absolutely terrible for this mother who will carry this guilt forever, but the fact is that 8 year olds do not have great judgement and they are quite capable of choosing a wrong behavior or a dangerous behavior. The fact is that 8 year olds should have parental/adult supervision. It appears that this was an unsupervised 8 year old who chose a dangerous behavior and died because of it.

 

Whether this situation was due to a momentary lapse on the part of the parent, or whether this parent's inattention to the child was SOP doesn't matter. The child still tragically died. The fact is if the mother had been supervising her daughter, this terrible accident could have been avoided.

 

Judy

[luv2trvlnow]

True enough, I've never been on a Carnival ship so I'll defer to you on the size of the strip. Regardless of the size of the ledge are you saying it's not feasible for her to hop up on it, lean over and fall?

Is it feasible to hop on it and lean over? Yes, but I still think she would have to have her feet in the air and not on the metal. At least she would have to be up on her tippy toes and leaning over to have a possibility of loosing her balance and fall.

I am also sure that most ships have railings about the same height, at least that is what I remember from Princess and Celebrity. I have not been on Royal but here is a video of Freedom of the Seas and I can see they have a railings that someone could climb up on. It appears that some even have several metal rungs that could be used to boost oneself up on. Don't know if that is true, but I also see that they also have a shelf at the bottom of some of their railings.

[sfaaa]

 

This family may not ever file a lawsuit against Carnival, but knowing that Carnival already has their lawyers on the case, it would be foolish for this family not to consult legal counsel to ensure that their rights are protected, at the least.

 

Protecting their legal rights and seeking justice are two different things. The uncle speaking on behalf of the family said they want justice which can only mean monetary compensation. The child is gone and cannot be brought back.

[nealstuber]

If the railing did not break free i cannot see how Carnival can be held responsible for this tragic accident.

 

 

 

Well it may be Carnival’s fault for making the railing too high. Sound like all she wanted to do was get the attention of her family members two decks below. If the railing wasn’t so high should wouldn’t have had to stand on something to do that.

 

That was sarcasm, but I did reread the original article and have found conclusive proof that the child was not supposed to be in school...

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[nealstuber]

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[grapau27]

Well it may be Carnival’s fault for making the railing too high. Sound like all she wanted to do was get the attention of her family members two decks below. If the railing wasn’t so high should wouldn’t have had to stand on something to do that.

 

That was sarcasm, but I did reread the original article and have found conclusive proof that the child was not supposed to be in school...

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

You do yourself no favours by using sarcasm in a distressing thread like this.

[bingomamma19]

I don’t recall seeing this posted earlier. Here is an article posted on the Miami Herald sight this morning. A few more details.

 

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article179242701.html

 

 

The article says she was standing on her "tippy toes" to see over and the person whom they interviewed assumes someone "bumped" into her.

 

There is NO way that a child standing on their tippy toes..so at that point just your head is higher than the railing, can be "bumped" over the railing.

 

Your body is mostly on the ground and the gravity of your body is not going to propel you up and over from being "bumped".

 

More likely, she was heavily balanced over the top of the rail (by pulling herself up and balancing on her belly on the rail to look down below) therefore tipping her body weight heavier to the front to fall.

 

I am 5'9"..i can stand against those rails and nobody "bumping" against me is going to make me fall over.

[grapau27]

The article says she was standing on her "tippy toes" to see over and the person whom they interviewed assumes someone "bumped" into her.

 

There is NO way that a child standing on their tippy toes..so at that point just your head is higher than the railing, can be "bumped" over the railing.

 

Your body is mostly on the ground and the gravity of your body is not going to propel you up and over from being "bumped".

 

More likely, she was heavily balanced over the top of the rail (by pulling herself up and balancing on her belly on the rail to look down below) therefore tipping her body weight heavier to the front to fall.

 

I am 5'9"..i can stand against those rails and nobody "bumping" against me is going to make me fall over.

I agree with you she would have had to overbalance to fall.

[Elaine5715]

I've yet to see a single report, stating factually, how exactly that girl went up and over the railing. Have you?

 

From what I've seen, the media reports all contradict one another. She fell 6 stories, she fell 3 stories, she fell 2 stories, she was shoved out of an elevator, etc, etc, etc. You are in no position to determine whether or not the family has a case.

The media does not know the difference between a deck and a story...

[Elaine5715]

If she was just on her toes on the litlle ledge, a massive crowd would have smushed her into the railing.

If any of my extended family had been interviewed after such a tragedy, pretty much all of them would be thinking they hit the lotto and expecting a settlement to come their way for "their loss"

[42CruiseCrazy]

I agree with you she would have had to overbalance to fall.

 

 

 

If she was balancing on her stomach with her upper body over the rail and her legs sticking up, someone could have bumped her feet if it was crowded. That would be enough to take her over the edge.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

The article says she was standing on her "tippy toes" to see over and the person whom they interviewed assumes someone "bumped" into her.

 

 

 

There is NO way that a child standing on their tippy toes..so at that point just your head is higher than the railing, can be "bumped" over the railing.

 

 

 

Your body is mostly on the ground and the gravity of your body is not going to propel you up and over from being "bumped".

 

 

 

More likely, she was heavily balanced over the top of the rail (by pulling herself up and balancing on her belly on the rail to look down below) therefore tipping her body weight heavier to the front to fall.

 

 

 

I am 5'9"..i can stand against those rails and nobody "bumping" against me is going to make me fall over.

 

 

 

That was my thought. If the railing was truly “as high as she was” there is no way just being on “her tippy toes” would put her high enough that a simple bump would knock her over the railing.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[jagsfan]

 

No it doesn't take a village to raise a child, it takes a mother and father to raise a child. I would never render my child over to a village to take care of my child.

 

 

 

 

When I was a child, there was a village raising us. Neighbors looked out for each others' kids as well as their own. If we got in trouble, whatever parent caught us chewed us out and then took us home for a second chewing out.

I wish the "village" still existed. We children were loved, kept safe, and had tremendous respect for the adults in our world.

Part of today's problems is parents who say that no one but them has a right to reprimand their children or even to look out for their safety. Too many children have contempt for authority figures because their parents take their sides against those figures.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[angiegal]

If she was balancing on her stomach with her upper body over the rail and her legs sticking up, someone could have bumped her feet if it was crowded. That would be enough to take her over the edge.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

This is the only way I can see someone bumping her and causing her to fall forward.

 

I went back to see pictures from our trip on the Glory and I have one of my Dad (about 5'10"), husband (6'1") and son standing (6'3") at that railing one deck lower than she was when she fell. All three of them have their hands on the railing, leaning slightly. Any amount of bumping them wouldn't have caused any of them to fall over the railing.