Expensive lesson learned re. independent excursion

[avian777]

... The risk for a 'cheaper' excursion is always that nothing is guaranteed, including getting to the excursion, and/or back to the ship on time.

 

My advice is that if you're going to do an organized excursion (which we rarely do BTW), book it through the cruise line for a multitude of reasons, not to mention to alleviate the experience you had.;)

(y)(y)(y)

[kazu]

Sure, most HAL passengers are able bodied. I do not have the experience with other cruise lines to say whether HAL gets an unfair rap on the aging/infirm question, however my HAL shore excursions always seem to have one person who has trouble keeping up. A cruiser was worn out by the stroll from the bus to the entry to the Palace of Knossos, no way was he able to tour the ruins.

 

 

One woman on an independent Jerusalem tour from the Prinsendam had to be left behind and picked up later. She could not even begin to walk through Jerusalem.

 

 

We were going to share a taxi tour with a HAL couple we met on the pier, but the husband hadn't shown up and then the wife mentioned that he was in 80's and had trouble getting around and remembering things. She was not upset when we took off without them.

 

 

rafinmd's current blog mentioned being on a bus with a scooter and about 6 walkers. All anecdotal evidence, but if you have not been inconvenienced on a HAL shore excursion by someone who was in over his head, I think you have been lucky.

 

I thought this thread was about lessons learned from booking outside of HAL and ergo, independent and private excursions?

 

As much as I enjoy rafinmd's posts (Roy) and threads, he does HAL tours. We rarely do. Maybe one or two on our 30 day cruises and then I come away (most times) shaking my head and saying why did I do this? They start late but come back at the time specified so our time is cut. GRR.

 

There is a HUGE difference in the passengers on a HAL cruise versus a private tour IMO and my experience.

[Hlitner]

The issue of passenger age always seems to find its way into threads on the HAL board. Unlike one other poster, we do cruise on many different cruise lines (14 to date with a 15th booked). We still enjoy HAL, primarily because of its terrific itineraries and long cruises. And its on those longer cruises that we will often find ourselves among the younger passengers....despite being in our late 60s. Suffice it to say that when we use the steps on our HAL ships (we try to avoid the elevators as much as reasonable) there are never crowds (on the steps). I will also say that despite the high average age (often in the mid to high 70s) of HAL passengers, many of our fellow passengers are in pretty good shape :). Of course our biggest fear on a HAL ship is being run over by a scooter (that is a story by itself). This fear far outweighs any fear of missing the ship...when we go off on our own (our norm) or on a private tour :).

 

Hank

[iancal]

It has been a long time since we have signed up for a ships excursion. We have certainly seen them lined up on land ready to 'set off'. That is generally enough to put us off and convince us that going private is the way to go. Getting off the ship, going on a private tour, getting to say Ephesus well before the big buses from the ship arrive, is well worth it to us. And then having the tour guide customize the remainder of the tour to our preferences. Just try that on a busload of 30 or 40 passengers.

 

And....not having to wait while someone is in the lav or buying trash and trinkets at the stop that provides cruise line with a fee for bringing unsuspecting cruisers to their establishment. No missing spouses gone walkabout either. Nor do we have to listen to those on the tour complaining about whatever. What the OP said was very true. You see different people on an private tour than you do on a ships excursions.

Edited October 25, 2017 by iancal

[Keith1010]

Sorry that things went wrong.

 

Keith

[catl331]

HAL passengers tend to be elderly and many cannot walk briskly for 45 minutes.

My days of walking briskly are long gone. A brisk walker could probably get from the ship to San Marco in 30 minutes if they don't get too lost. You questioned whether 1 hour and 40 minutes to do it was too short, and again I say not IMO.

[NCTribeFan]

The only time I do a ship tour is if, after I've done my research, I cannot find what I want for a given port stop. For example, I've booked a ship tour for Cap Cana, DR, simply because I couldn't find a tour to take me into the countryside that I wanted.

 

I have no problem paying a deposit for a tour. I totally understand why tour operators often require them these days, or even paying in full (like I've done for several of my spring B2B TAs to lock in a price and not worry about exchange rate fluctuations).

 

There's nothing more annoying than arranging a group tour, have people swear they'll be there, and then you waste 30 minutes of your time (and everyone else's) waiting for them to show up. That means your tour is cut short because of their lack of consideration.

 

I've been on a couple that we had arranged the minimum for a certain price point and then had people no-show, then the rest of us had to pay the higher pp price. Talk about inconsiderate!

 

Back to the OP's post - definitely was not a tour designed for ship passengers. And the tour operator was totally justified in leaving at the designated time.

[sapper1]

The only time I do a ship tour is if, after I've done my research, I cannot find what I want for a given port stop. For example, I've booked a ship tour for Cap Cana, DR, simply because I couldn't find a tour to take me into the countryside that I wanted.

 

I have no problem paying a deposit for a tour. I totally understand why tour operators often require them these days, or even paying in full (like I've done for several of my spring B2B TAs to lock in a price and not worry about exchange rate fluctuations).

 

There's nothing more annoying than arranging a group tour, have people swear they'll be there, and then you waste 30 minutes of your time (and everyone else's) waiting for them to show up. That means your tour is cut short because of their lack of consideration.

 

I've been on a couple that we had arranged the minimum for a certain price point and then had people no-show, then the rest of us had to pay the higher pp price. Talk about inconsiderate!

 

Back to the OP's post - definitely was not a tour designed for ship passengers. And the tour operator was totally justified in leaving at the designated time.

i agree that was inexcusable behaviour.

We have had to be no shows on private excursions twice and both times I contacted the group leader and paid our share so the others would not have to absorb my cost.

[StartrainDD]

I know the OP as we were on the same cruise and indeed shared a few private tours together. I had not heard about the Venice situation, sorry to hear Betsy.

 

We had our own "Venice" story. Venice is a place that you just never know how long it will take to get from spot A to spot B. We did arrange a private tour for five of us on day one. The tour provider gave explicit instructions to the meeting spot and told us to figure on 10:00 and not sooner. That tour was outstanding! The end of the day not so much, in fact I believe Venice is the most over-rated port stop anywhere. Here is the except from my log about Venice:

 

Thursday, October 12, 2017 –Venice day one.

We were up early and coffee /tea was delivered right at 6:30. We werein the lido for breakfast by 7:10 as Prinsendam was already approaching thedock. The rest of the day is a contrastof great and not so great travel experiences.

The five of us were ready todisembark at 8:00. Just as we reachedthe gangway it was being opened for passengers. Right outside the cruise terminal was an ATM which we used to obtainmore Euros. We took the people mover at1.5 Euros each for the short hop to the main transportation hub at P.Roma. There, we purchased two daywaterbus passes for 30 Euros each. Wethen found that the waterbus 5.2 leaves from port B which ended up being abouttwo blocks away, back towards the ship.

We followed our directions toride the 5.2 to the Ospedale (Hospital) stop. We were about 30 minutes early for our 10:00 tour but in Venice you cannever know how long it will take to get from place to place… There was no obvious place to wait so Icalled our tour guide, Serantoni Tommaso to inquire. He said he was approaching the waterbus stopand would signal us when he was close enough. Five minutes later we saw a boat approaching from across the lagoon andhe motioned for us to move to a small docking area.

We began our four hourprivate tour on the bragozzo (traditional Venetian boat) “El Sultan.” We had a wonderful tour as Serantoni told usall about Venetian history, shipbuilding, the lagoon, and showed us the saltmarsh that was as Venice was before it was built. He took us past two farming islands and wedocked at Burano. At Burano we had 1 hr.10 minutes to wander the streets. Whilethere we say a ship’s tour arrive. Therewere also tour groups from various countries walking past.

One person needed to find aWC, and in the town square a public WC was available for 1.5 Euros. We saw the church and the leaning clock tower(Leans more than Pisa). On the way backto El Sultan we stopped at a bakery we had passed to try the local specialcookie as well as a few other treats. Wealso purchased some small lace items as Burano is the lace capital of Italy.

Back on El Sultan, we circledaround Burano and crossed some of the lagoon to the island of Mazzorbo. Here we visited the off the tourist pathChurch of Santa Caterina. This church, builtin the 13th century, is in remarkable condition thanks to volunteerswho maintain it. There is a paintingdated 1292 on the front of the balcony boards. The friars would direct the service from the balcony. We had the church to ourselves until much toour guides surprise a tour group stopped in. There was no boat so where they came from to arrive at the church was amystery.

Next we headed towardsMurano. On the way we passed close to asmall island where a church occupied the entire island. We were close enough to see the statues inthe courtyard. We circled around part ofMurano and we paid our guide and bid him farewell. We tried without success to find a glassmaking demonstration (we just missed one and they told us it was seven Euros towatch but never told us when the next one would be). We had a light lunch at a place the guiderecommended. It was just okay and costlyfor what it was.

We walked the main street andcrossed the Murano Grand Canal. Thecrowds thinned out as it was getting late. We caught the #7 express water bus directly to St. Mark’s square,perhaps 20 minutes away. That area, likealways, was crowded. We walked along thewaterfront and bought a few items from street vendors. The day, until now, was terrific.

We followed the GPS to themeeting point for our prepaid 6:30 Gondola ride, booked thru Viator. We arrived at about 6:00 and were told “Thisis the line” and it was already over 30 persons long with no place to sit. It was after 6:30 that they began loadinggondolas and even though we were in the middle of the line somehow we ended upin the very last gondola to leave. Noone told us that seating would be assigned in the order we boarded, so my wifeand I (the only married couple on board) were not sitting together – so muchfor “Romantic.”

We were supposed to be ableto hear the singer on one of the gondolas – that didn’t happen either. For one thing when we were close enough tothe next gondola the two gondoliers were talking with each other, for the otherwe were so far behind anyone singing that we couldn’t hear a thing.

This was supposed to be a 35minute ride and it was only 25 minutes. For what we had prepaid, just under US$50/pp the five of us could havehired two private gondolas at 100 Euros each and had a much superiorexperience.

After we got off we went tothe person in charge to complain and frankly, they could have cared less. (After arriving home I left them the worstreview in 180 reviews I’ve ever left on tripadvisor.)

We headed to the nearest waterbusstop and the waterbus arrived very crowded. Some folks got off and we started to get on. After one (of five) from our group was onthey slid the gate closed. I told thedriver we were together and again, they could care less. She didn’t know where to get off. The next waterbus arrived much less crowdedand the four of us got on. When we gotoff at P. Roma we looked for our separated friend and could not find her.

We took the people mover backto the port. Boarding the ship wasanother hassle with airport like security requiring that ALL metal objects beplaced in trays for x-ray. We were onboard at about 8:45 and went straight to the dining room. We checked our friend’s room and she was notthere. After finishing dinner I went tothe front desk and they told me she had returned. Getting back to our cabin DW was on the phonewith her, she found someone at the Rialto stop with a Rick Steve’s guidebookwho told her how to get back to the ship. She returned at 9:30.

After a 13 hour day in Venice,we decided to drop our plans for the second day in Venice and make it a “Shipday.” This ended up being a greatdecision. Our touring friends hadpre-purchased a tour of the Doges Palace and St. Marks so they were committedand ended up having a more pleasant second day in Venice.

Friday, October 13, 2017 – Venice day two

A sleep in morning was very welcome after our exhausting dayin Venice. Venice is severely ‘foggedin’ this morning! I sent a quick e-mailto the ‘free walking tour’ folks to let them know we would not be coming thismorning. We went to the dining room atabout 8:35 for breakfast. Afterwards wewalked around the ship and noticed the ‘fog’ coming off the pool and hottub. I dipped my hand into the pool andfound it to be very warm.

We could not even see the cruise terminal building due tothe fog. Yesterday’s tour wouldcertainly have been canceled if it were to be today. After a while we decided to use the pool asno one was even sitting outside on the lido deck. The pool was delightful and we spent a lot oftime there, followed by the even warmer hot tub. I believe I actually fell asleep in the hottub until DW came from the pool to join me. Returning to our room at about 11:45, by the time we showered and gotdressed we decided to forgo the dining room lunch DW had preordered. We did not know that DD was already in therewaiting for us (sorry dad!).

We had a light lido lunch and just needed more rest. We slept part of the afternoon away untilwoken by a phone call (thanks dad!). After we decided to go to the crow’s nest for happy hour and sail away.

Two folks missed the ship in Venice. You just never know how long it’s going totake you to get from place to place in Venice, and one needs to always leaveplenty of margin. From the crow’s nestwe saw the Westerdam, which we were told docked at 1:00 rather than 8:00 asthey could not enter the harbor due to the fog. There was also an older Costa ship in port. I did not see a single verandah cabin on theCosta ship, but did count four decks (at least) of window cabins.

We left the dock shortly after 5:00 and passed St. Mark’ssquare about 5:35. There was still a lowfog over some of the water surfaces. Wewere back with our great wait team tonight for dinner and it was good. Looking at tomorrow’s dinner menu we decidedthat would be the night for the Pinnacle. I quickly visited the Pinnacle and obtained reservations for 6:30tomorrow.

The show tonight was the production team with“Dance.” The singing and dancing was verywell done. My only critical comment isthat unlike the two prior production shows, I am about 99% certain this wasperformed using canned music rather than the live band. With a full day tour tomorrow in the off thebeaten cruise path port of Rijeka Croatia we called in a night after the show.

[bennybear]

Startrain, sorry you didn’t enjoy Venice. It is exhausting from a ship. IMHO it is best done as a land based trip. We have visited probably 6 times the best being when we rented an apartment for a week. It is magical at night when the day trippers are gone and you can wander through uncrowded streets. It is meant to be enjoyed in small doses with rest breaks. I agree it can be very arduous from a ship.

[iancal]

Agree. If you really want to see Europe....do it by land.

 

Some of our favourite experiences....spending several days walking around cities like Venice, Paris, Rome with absolutely no agenda other than to see where our walk takes us. The only way to see and experience these places and others like them.

[BJzink]

That must have been very stressful, but at least you didn't miss the ship. many of us have seen a few people who have done that.

Sandra

There were quite a few passengers who got back to the ship just within 15" of the sailing time. They were pretty anxious about it, thought they had headed back in plenty of time........

As I wrote in my heading (title), I learned an expensive lesson, do not plan to blame the tour operator.

[cruisemom42]

We headed to the nearest waterbusstop and the waterbus arrived very crowded. Some folks got off and we started to get on. After one (of five) from our group was onthey slid the gate closed. I told thedriver we were together and again, they could care less. She didn’t know where to get off. The next waterbus arrived much less crowdedand the four of us got on. When we gotoff at P. Roma we looked for our separated friend and could not find her.

 

This may perhaps be an unpopular opinion, but I cannot imagine anyone getting off the ship and heading off on a day of exploring without having some idea of how to get back on one's own. Venice is a city, with crowds, various modes of transportation, etc. and there's always a chance of getting separated from one's group or guide.

 

I've traveled with my son from a young age, often spending a week in various large cities (Rome, Paris, London, etc.). We have always had some kind of plan as to what he should do if we get separated (e.g., on the Tube or metro, or lost in a large crowd).

 

I feel people should take some responsibility for the basics of navigating themselves around, especially if not taking a ship tour. But even if taking one, a person will often have to know how to get back to a central meeting point.

 

Get a map, look at it ahead of time, understand where you are going and how to get back.

[iancal]

I am with you. Exactly what we do. The most important detail is to understand where we are going, where we are just in case we need to get back to the ship on our own or if we choose to do so which is sometimes the case.

 

Plus, we always try to get out as quickly as possible and come back with an hour or two to spare. We will sometimes grab our ipads and go back out to a bar for an hour, relax and check our internet.

[slidergirl]

This may perhaps be an unpopular opinion, but I cannot imagine anyone getting off the ship and heading off on a day of exploring without having some idea of how to get back on one's own. Venice is a city, with crowds, various modes of transportation, etc. and there's always a chance of getting separated from one's group or guide.

 

I've traveled with my son from a young age, often spending a week in various large cities (Rome, Paris, London, etc.). We have always had some kind of plan as to what he should do if we get separated (e.g., on the Tube or metro, or lost in a large crowd).

 

I feel people should take some responsibility for the basics of navigating themselves around, especially if not taking a ship tour. But even if taking one, a person will often have to know how to get back to a central meeting point.

 

Get a map, look at it ahead of time, understand where you are going and how to get back.

 

I totally agree. But, remember the old story about people on vacation: they pack everything for every conceivable situation, but forget to pack their brains and common sense ;)

[Lancer1568]

This is very interesting to me. Just this morning I was thinking about posting a question about this! We are doing Alaska for the first and probably only time. Read many posts about people booking independent tours and was wondering whether you prepay these, what kind of cancellation in general do they have (Alaska is weather dependent). Normally when we cruise the Caribbean we hail a cab and do our own thing but don't think that is much of an option in Alaska.

 

Two things we did in Alaska that I have recommended to others that they have also enjoyed. Harv and Marv whale watching excursion in Juneau (you can check out their website as well as many good reviews here on cruise critic) and rent a car in Skagway (Avis and someone else has offices there) and drive up into the Yukon. You will see all the scenery of the Rail excursion at a fraction of the price. Be sure and take your passports if you do this because you will cross into Canada after only a few miles and you will need them to get back into the US. Great excursions that you can do your own thing on...Enjoy.

[angelbearmom]

Totally different aspect of this post: On our recent Panama Cruise on the Nieuw Amsterdam we saw clearly another reason to take a ship cruise. 3 days in a row we had to wait for passengers on excursions that had traffic issues. The last day was the worst-Puntarenas where there were several recent landslides not repaired or cleared as well as traffic accidents. The ship was due to leave port at 6:30. At 8 they were still waiting for 260 passengers. The last passengers returned at 10 pm. There was another cruise ship docked next to us and it looked like they were waiting still after we had left port.

[Fastfredcruise]

For those driving into the Yukon, purchase the Murray guide, about $5.00 detailed mile by mile info to Emerald lake turnaround. Bjs or Costco best rate on Avis car. We rented two minivans fir our party of 11. Highlights. Swinging Bridge, Musher camp kids loved playing with .Husky puppies, and dog sled ride, Carcross desert, Discounts with the Murry guide.

[SetAnOpenCourse]

There were quite a few passengers who got back to the ship just within 15" of the sailing time. They were pretty anxious about it, thought they had headed back in plenty of time........

As I wrote in my heading (title), I learned an expensive lesson, do not plan to blame the tour operator.

The operator deserves at least part of the blame based on your OP. As long as they provide directions, if those directions were flawed (incomplete, or in your words, "vague"), then they were, to some degree, responsible.

 

The only way they are blameless is if you went the wrong way at a point not included in the directions (e.g., they didn't actually start at the port), or if it was mutually understood that you were receiving only sketchy directions.

[SAPMAN]

I was in Venice for 3 days before our cruise last month. I found it easy to get around, although I did a lot of research in advance. I would guess I could get to St. Mark Sq. in about 30-35 minutes (walking from the NCL ship dock) and 25 minutes using vaparetto #2. I always get directions in advance on Google maps and print - sometimes have to zoom in and print 2 or 3 pages. And get info on public transit as well. Prepare in advance. And you could always take a water taxi (expensive - but only 10 minutes from vaparetto loading area to St. Marks.

[wyandotte]

Just back from a wonderful "Adriatic Explorer" cruise on Prinsendam, but a horrible experience with an independent excursion. I will never, never again book one of these unless the seller specifically states a "pick-up & drop-off" at the cruise pier. My excursion was in Venice, did get a vague description of the directions to the tour meeting place, however there was absolutely no way I was able to make it there by the time they left. I disembarked the ship about 5 minutes after the door was opened, at 0800 and tried to follow the directions. My meeting time was 9:40, had to purchase vaporetta ticket, wait & wait for it, get to St. Mark's square, and walk through many non-marked streets/alleys. I asked for directions with no help, had to back-track several times. I arrived 3 minutes after the stated meeting time, but they had left without me. 2 of the gondola "guys" tried phoning the number on my confirmation letter, no answer. Lesson learned..........

 

Hello,

D. Lopez mentioned that you might be interested in joining our Busan tour next spring while there in Korea. There are about 16 of us currently signed on with Novaland Tour. It is a about a seven-hour tour, ship to ship, includes lunch and returns to the ship around 3 p.m. Price is $78/pp which includes a 3% fee by paying through PayPal as Novaland prefers. If you're interested, you can get back to me and I will send particulars of itinerary, payment, cancellation policy, etc.

Make it a good evening,

Wyandotte